I know plenty about tact and etiquette. I know that repeating what you've said isn't a personal attack. Sorry I made your feel bad hurt.

You said,

I said that if a kid can't hit with a .223, giving him more recoil and muzzle blast doesn't make sense. It's a bandaid fix to the problem of him not being able to hit.

And once again, what a hunting guide uses while guiding has nothing to do with my seven year old, who's not a hunting guide. But if he decides to guide me on a brown bear hunt this fall I'll be sure and take your advice and hand him a .300, at least.

Trying to stay out of this one but sorry if you can't hit it witha 223 why the hell would he be able to hit it witha 257wby.

Know several guides that hunt with 223 or 22-250 and for that fact even 222. Saying all guides use 300mag is a very bad attempt at saying a 300 mag is the perfect whitetail cartiage... Grizzly maybe but TX sized whitetail

Size of bullet doesn't kill. gut shot is gut shot.

Velocity/ RPM's and bullet construction kill

As far as how big a bullet is its not hard math.. theer comes a point when Velocity will equal out bullet wieght.

The only good cailber is a caliber that THAT SHOOTER can handle 100 percent effectively.
i wonder how many of our big bore shooters on here will shoot twice as good stepping down calibers...

Agreed BOBO. The best deer hunter I know uses a .222 and he kills lots of deer. He talks smack to me every year when I show up with a magnum.

I knew a guy on a old lease I was on, he was shooting a 17 Rem Fireball, it was the tiniest bullet I've ever seen. He saw it dropped them like a rock. I still find that hard to believe. I bet he has lost a few. Those guys on that lease were poor shots anyways. This lease was over 30,000 acres and on opening day my wife and I counted 34 shots seperate shots from all over the property and only one doe came in. Anyways back to the subject, I think a .223 will do the the job if the shot placement is good, which in reality, shot placement applies to ever round out there. But then again, you can't go wrong with a .243 either.

You know, Bobo, usually you know
what you are talking about so
I don't have to disagree with yo,
But this time I am not so sho...

Really what you said was almost 100 percent agreeable....
Point one: Yes, velocity will help equal the energy of mass.... but it can go down as the mass becomes negligible...in fact, a big slow bullet and a small fast bullet usually have the same energy four times in their lives...


And you are 100% right that bullet size doesn't kill....and that bullet construction is important...
Point Two: Bigger bullets allow for more better greater bigger expansion mushrooming stuff....

Yeah, heck, I've killed deer with 223 and seen kids kill them with 223... But as soon as possible I'd get that kid or lady into a 308 or 270 or 30-06 or something bigger than a 223...

I guide in S TX and 99% of the time the gun I carry is a .243 loaded with 100gr Sierra GK hand loads. There is not a deer in Texas that I'd hesitate to shoot up to 300 yards with that rifle!

My son also has a .223 he bought with his own $ when he was 7. I have not taken the time to develop a true 'tack driver' recipe for it as he stepped up to the 243 before I had the chance to do it. If I had a recipe that would deliver 1-hole groups at 100 yards I would dare to say that there isn't a deer in this state I couldn't put on his azz if he's within 200 yards and probably could with the loads I have right now that shoot under 1" at 100!

My mother killed every deer of her huting career with an old 222 Savage. I do not remember a single miss in all those years or a single lost animal! My father reinforced the last statement just now! She probably killed in excess of 50 WTs with that rifle with an old 4X Redfield scope on it. Granted, the longest shot she probably ever took was a little over 100 yards but every, last, single one was made into sausage!

The bottom line here was the gentlemen's question on whether the 223 was enough gun to get it done. Answer is without a doubt..............YES! There is not a deer in this state that is going to live if his child puts a bullet through his pump room.........PERIOD! Can he wound a deer with it, hell yes but that can happen with a 243, 308, 270, 7mm08.............whatever. Do I agree it is better to have a bigger caliber on a marginal shot, of course I do. You'd have to be an idiot not to! But if this child is new to shooting centerfire rifles the last thing I'd do is start him out on anything larger then a 223!!!!

Just seems to me that people think the deer in Texas are like the deer in Canada. 90% of my deer hunting is with a 30-06, but that is just because I love the caliber so much. I'm comfortable with it and I've been using the rifle for over 15 years. It just suits me like a faded pair of jeans. I won't ever knock someone who uses the 223 because I know for a fact it will drop anything in Texas.

223 is fine for Texas whitetail. Stick with good bullets (TSX or Partition) and let the young 'uns practice, practice, practice and practice some more.

I just let my experienced 11 year old shoot my Remington R-15 .223 REM this morning. He dropped a nice sized doe at 90 yards. Dropped her in her tracks.

He has always shot my Kimber 8400 .270 when hunting deer, but I just got this Remington and he begged me to let him shoot a doe with it. You can imagine how a 11 year old would love to shoot a camoflauge AR style rifle.

Anyway, the shot was perfect and the doe dropped in her tracks. I think this caliber is fine for smaller deer, it just needs to be sited in good and have a good shooter shoot it.

I stand corrected. Shot a doe with a 223 this weekend and dropped her in her tracks. Nice exit wound...

Very stand-up of you to post that.

I guess if you have a problem with shooting a deer with a .223 you REALLY have a problem with bow hunting. After all, there are definitely alot more deer wounded or lost with archery equipment than any "small" caliber firearms. I bow hunt whitetail almost exclusively - I guess I am being irresponsible since the beasts can be put down much more efficiently with a .308 than with a Rage two blade broadhead.

I think that the .223 if used in a judicious manner can be a very effective flying object. In the case with my 11 year old this past weekend, he is a very experienced hunter, an excellent shot, we made sure the distance was a very "safe" 90 yards, and he was going after a doe exclusively.

It all worked out fine. I agree that the .223 should be used only in very specific instances, but in the right hands and in the right time it can be used effectively.

Have to agree with this statement. My one caveat with using the .223 is that I'd stress the "right hands & right time" qualifier. We're all rightfully proud of our kids, but I think we need to be really careful in determining whether our sons/daughters have the maturity necessary to overcome their natural excitement when they get a deer in the crosshairs. I've seen too many adults get hit by buck fever and get a bit sloppy with their shots, and kids - especially new hunters - can be even more susceptible. While a heavier caliber doesn't make up for sloppy shooting, it does offer a greater margin for error than does a .223, and that margin can make the difference between a successful hunt and a disappointing one.

If a kid is already a proficient hunter (and not just a good shot) and is capable of understanding and accepting his limitations, the .223 can be an effective deer caliber. That said, however, I wouldn't put a .223 in the hands of a brand new hunter his first time or 2 in the stand. A bigger bullet, moving slower, won't punish the shooter that much. Certainly not as much as the disappointment of wounding a deer and having it get away.

All that said, I started hunting deer with an Aussie .303 Enfield with a steel butt plate. Rifle was longer than I was tall when I first got it, and I took more than my share of deer with it. My own son's first experience with a high-power rifle, however, was with a Marlin .30-30 with a good recoil pad.

Ron always brings wisdom with his posts...

+1

I always say that humans are the only creature in the animal kingdom that can be stupid and still reach maturity. While every other species has the good grace to get killed off, we invented cops, insurance, and antibiotics. M'self, I think I musta just been lucky. :-)

Never thought of it this way! But, I believe you are 100% right on time!!!!

The rossi 243 youth model does have alittle kick to it....


Just my 2 cents here...The 204 Ruger is a blazeing fast round...a 6yr old could handle it I believe....And it can put down a deer with ease

What bullet would you recommend for the .204?

[q

uote=Bluedreaux]What bullet would you recommend for the .204? [/quote]

I know afew bullet makers now make factory rounds for the 204 Ruger..Hornaday was the first I believe to make bullets for the 204.

I know they come in 32 grain and believe 34 grain Run close to $20 bucks for a box of 20..Kind of pricey... I have no persoanl pref..for 204 bullets

.204 huh? A 32 grain bullet going super fast for deer???

That's what I thought. The whole point being made here (that you've apparently missed) is that the .223 is good for deer if used appropriately, just like anything else. (HINT-That means putting the right bullet in the right spot.)

I'll clarify for you, since reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. "A 32 grain bullet" isn't necessarily deer bullet regardless of how fast you push it. It depends on the bullets construction, which you've obviously not taken into account based on your response.

That's the kinda crap that's lets deer run off wounded and then you'll come on here and pronounce that only a .300 alphabetsoupmagnum will kill Texas whitetails.

Man, this thread still has a life....

It's still going, but it's been dead for a while.

Kinda like the tremendously long, bloodtrail-less, death runs deer make after you shoot em through the heart with a little ol .223...

And it sounds like some of the folks need a couple of bran muffins way worse than they need any gun!