I would think a soft bullet at 165 grain with alot more KE is far more likely to knock one strait down than a 100-120 grain with less KE. But I do understand what you are saying. But I will always take a little luck.

Killemall, if you get a chance, try the 110 grain Accubond in your 25-06. I'd love to hear what your results are.

Been shooting the Federal Prem. 100 gr. TSX in my 25-06 for 2 seasons. I've shot 6 whitetails with this round, from distances of 90yds. to 175yds. 5 0f the 6 DRT, 1 buck shot quartering away and hit double lung only ran 40 yds. and piled up. This bullet is devastating!

Hate to drag up an old thread, but wanted to update those of you who were following along.

These bullets came back to bite me in the a$$ last night. About 45 minutes before dark, I took a shot on a doe. This was my 3rd shot of the year. As mentioned above, the other 2 were DRT, but with very little visible damage to the deer. Last night, she ran off after she was hit.

I gave it about 10 minutes and went to where she was shot. The intention was to find blood, get the trail started while there was some daylight left, and then go back for the flashlight and find her after dark. When I got to where I shot her, there was NOTHING. No blood at all. I searched a 30 yard stretch from where she was hit to where she entered the woods for 30 minutes and didn't find a drop.

A friend came back to help me track her after dark. We were finding nothing. I was really hoping that somehow I had missed her but sure enough he found one decent spot of fresh blood on the ground. She was hit just as I thought she was. 2 more guys then joined for the search. In total, 4 of us searched for 3 hours each and never found another drop of blood or the deer. I'm just sick about losing an animal. These bullets are going away and I'll look back through this thread at some of the other suggestions you guys made and give one of them a try.

Had the same problem with the accubonds but in .270 wsm lost one hog because of no blood loss and loss a sika deer because of the same problem. After 2 days of looking we were finally able to find the sika though. Now if I am shooting hogs I love the tsx, have shot 16 hogs with them and never lost one. For deer I have been using the trophy bonded tip shot 2 bucks and a doe with it this year and have had good blood trails on all three.

Just saw this. Too late to try Accubond this year. I shot a doe yesterday with the 100 grain Barnes x. 2nd deer with this bullet this year. It performed great. massive exit and blood. Deer went 20 yards and a back flip. 1st deer I shot with it this year was a questionable hit at a pretty long range (260-280), Was high and forward on a quartering away deer. Exited front chest but didn't hit alot of good stuff. Basically I had a bleed out. Massive exit again and without it I would never have recovered this animal. They are a little pricey but if you gun likes them I highly reccommend the Barnes x. I have shot cor lokts for years in 30-06 and it never mattered. 25-06 a little better performing bullet seems needed. The deer I shot with ballistic tips this year didn't go far but had zero exit either. Don't like that at all.

I went to a 25-06 this season and have had great results. I shoot the 117 grain Hornady BTSP. I highly recommend this ammo!

Stay the heck away from the BT... They are not designed to ever exit and if anything will account for the least chance of exit or blood trail. BT are fine in your bigger calibers, infact thier jacket thickness goes up as you go up in calibers. Small and extermely fast are not a great combo with BT's

Accubonds are great bullets... But if your really worried about exit swith to the partitions or TSX's.

I shoot Nolser Custom ammo its 3300fts and 100grain partition. If I can ever find a place to load TSX's that has a resaonable turn around time I wouldn't hestiate to go back to them.. So far the partitions have been extermely good to me.

When looking at bullets you have to think what will it do out of my gun.. Not a 300 mag or 270 wsm but the gun your shooting.. THe 25-06 is a great round as you know but its a 25 cal.. The better built bullets give the gun a whole new level of preformance. I love my 25-06 and will never think twice about shooting large framed game with it including nilgi and elk. BT's are made for thin game like whitetail.. THey where developed for larger cal. In any thing under a 25 cal they are great varmit bullets and thats it becuase the bullet walls can't hold up to the speed.

IMO thier are only......Three bullets I would ever consider in my 25-06, the Accubond, Partition, and TSX. Hornady is coming out with an OTC ammo witha bullet very similar to the TSX an that the Superpreformace Ammo with thier bullet the GSX. I might try it out when it comes out .

But as of now the best OTC ammo I have found is the Nolser Custom 100gr partitions..

No speed and RPMs is what kills. Killed two aminals this year with Partitions. One jumped strait up and fell on his back dead.. The other's chin it the ground so hard is was ugley.

look up the the formula of KE and look at the biggest varible(the one that makes the most impact)... I'll give you a hint its not weight of the bullet

How an animal reacts to any particular shot is still a mystery to me. I've shot several 200lb+ hogs and they all DRT'ed using core lokts and BTs.

Deer on the other hand seem to react differently for me. I had my biggest buck to date DRT with 150gr Win XP3 from .30-06. But a small spike ran 50yds on an identical shot placement (right behind the front shoulder) & bullet. More puzzling is that a doe ran 40yds on a similar shot with an Eisenhower silver dollar exit from 180gr TSX 300WM. The effects of the 300WM has pretty impressive as there weren't any trace of lungs left in her, but I expected her to DRT.

I think it's all about shot placement and the animal's will to live. Even though a hog is theoretically a lot tougher than a deer, I don't think they have anywhere close to a WT deer's will to live or stamina for that matter.

Speed does have the largest impact on the equation. If you are comparing lets say a 150 grain to a 165 depending on how much more speed you get ke may well be higher on the 150. If you are comparing bigger differences like a 165 30-06 to a 100 25-06. The spead of the 100 grain may not make up the difference in wieght. 30-06 has more ke throughout the ranges in the 2 I am comparing and it becomes more pronounced the further downrange you go as the 25-06 loses fps more rapidly. Speed is the big thing but not the only thing.

One thing I didn't make clear above, the blood we did find was 40 yards from where she was shot. It was luck that we found it. There was nothing where she was shot to even give us a start on which direction to track.

Thanks for all the advice on ammo guys. I'll be trying something different next year for sure. I plan to upgrade to a higher power scope as well so we'll get it all sighted in and be back after it next season.

I'm guessing the guys that say to stay away from BT's has had bad shots or tried them only when they first came out along time ago.

I use the Nosler BT's because I know they are put together well and WILL stay together and exit any deer or hog in my .25-06. I've never had a deer run from any of my 115gr Nosler BT reloads. I've only lost hogs due to private property were the hogs ran onto (I was hunting too close to the property boundry and didn't know at the time).

I think the Accubonds are built a little too tough for Texas deer. I think they'd work better for larger deer or axis.

BT's will stay together and exist any deer??? THey aren't made to stay together or penerate past 4 inches.
I think BT's are fine for 27 caliber and above... But in no way would I use them in anything under 27 cal or over 3300 fts. As far as bad shots and not liking them, no I don't like them becuase I have had to do to many follow up shot becuase the bullet seperated from the core and got very little penatration. I don't now what you experince with BT's are but again I bet its not a hot 25 cal or smaller.

As far as Accubonds being to tough for deer maybe in a 300 mag or 270 WSM or 7mm.. But we aren't talking about a those we ae talking abot a 25 cal. The accubond is a bonded wall, thicker wall BT. Its in between the BT and Partition. It made to expand quickly less quickly na BT and more quickly then a Partition. Its also made so the core doest seperate from the copper. Think of it this way say you have 110 grain BT. It enters and expands quickly its not bonded so the core will probley seperate from the copper.. so know the only think you have still going throught the deer is maybe 65 grains of lead.. Is that what you really want on anything other then a perfect broodside shot? Only thing IMO BT are good for in Small hot calibers is neck shots(You don't need the 4-6 inches of penatrate and you want all the damage with in 2 inches of entrance.

We are on the same page, but now comes the fun question how much CE do you need to effectively kill a deer. KE only tell part of the picture.. Now take a very well bullet, one thats in a slower big cal gun and its is going to preform much differently at higher speeds and smaller calibers.

take the 30-06 example you gave.. At a hundred yards say you shot both the 30-06 150 grain partition though a deer and the deer right next to it you shot a 25-06 with a 100 grain partititon bullet. Which one is going to expand more??? Which on is going to carry more hydrostatic shock. I think that most people miss this fact. The partition is going to expand alot more with the faster 25-06 then the 30-06 in fact the 100 grain is going to use more of its KE in the animal then the 30-06 and in doing create much more damage all the way through. This IMO is where the BT fails in small fast Cailbers... it losses all its energy to early. Thats also way I think well built buils in big cals are point less unless you really pushing the speed up there, they don't use enough energy well in the deer... they just keep pushing through.

BOBO, you obviously haven't read my reply. Might want to do that again.

I use ONLY Nosler Ballistic Tips in a .25-06 and .30-06 for whom it matters. I use them on a regular bases in my .25-06 Encore. Believe me I know what my bullet and caliber combo's WILL do. I pay GREAT detail to the terminal damage from every animal that goes down.

I'd NEVER use a bullet that won't exit from my .25-06 or any other caliber I own (I fit my caliber to the game I'm after). All of my varmint bullets exit on spine/ neck shots on hogs and that includes my .22-250 also. I won't use BT's in my smaller calibers under the .25-06 either. I use Sierra Varminter bullets instead. They will stay together better than the smaller caliber BT's.

You're ranting for no reason to a guy that has been reloading for a long time. I keep up on ALL of the bullets and manufacturers. No need to preach to me about what you don't think I know. Because I do know what I'm talkin' about. Re-read my reply and you might find that I have been only talkin' about .25-06 and 115gr Nosler BT's that I use.


Now that you got me goin'. I use a Sierra Game King 130gr SP boatail in my .270 Win. It makes some serious holes in deer. After using it on 2 deer this fall the bullet holes are as big or bigger than my BT's out of my .25-06. So, the BT's would be worse than my soft points in my .270 Win. My loads for the .25-06 are at 3050fps @15' and the .270 Win is at 2940fps @15' from the muzzle. So, they are pretty close in velocity. The Game King's aren't as fragile as the BT's, but it is obvious w/ the entrance and exit wounds they are pretty much doing the same amount of damage. I can't imagine what the BT's would do in the .270 Win. Yeah, they might have a thicker wall, but the Game King's should be thicker. Which in turn should expand more than the soft points.

FYI, I have experience w/ Nosler Partitions and use them on a regular basis also. I know the Accubonds are between the two. I never said they weren't. I said they are built a little too tough for the deer. Meaning, they are stronger than a BT and won't open as easy unless you hit a shoulder. So, they are IMO too tough for deer and would be best used for axis or larger deer. I wasn't born yesterday, but maybe before you.

My point exactly. A 25 cal is not a small caliber though.

Guys, I'm loving all of this debate, I just wish I understood it all. I don't know the difference between nosler, BT, partition, etc... If you go to the manufacturer websites, they don't give you details, they just tell you how awesome all of them are for anything that walks the face of the earth.

Can anyone recommend a good website to go learn this stuff? Or can anyone break it down for me? I don't want anyone to spend an hour at their computer typing a disertation, but I'm obviously in need of some knowledge here.

Shotguns and handguns I know pretty well. I'm pretty new to deer hunting and rifles in general.

Alot of this is from experimenting from reloading. I can only say the more solid construction the bullet the smaller the exit hole will be. So, less bloddtrail, but doesn't mean you won't find it w/o lookin'.

I've had better luck w/ a softer bullet on southern deer than a well constructed bullet. Especially, if you're wanting a good bloodtrail. I haven't had a deer run yet, but bullet placement from the head, neck, and high shoulder DRT. Have used the 6MM w/ 85gr Sierra Varminter bullets, .25-06 w/ 115gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and a .270 Win w/ 130gr Sierra Game King soft point boatails.

I'd subscribe to a few gun magazines to get more indepth info. Gun's and Ammo is a good choice for starters.

All the opinions posted here are from people's personal experiences and are subjective, for the most part. No matter what type or caliber of bullets used will kill as long as it is placed correctly. There are many variables that affect the flight of the bullet such as the wind, animal movement, and the most influential variable which is the person pulling the trigger.

Like in anything we do, we are all subject to having a good or a bad day. I particularly like the days when I'm lucky. Just pick one and practice a lot throughout the year and get comfortable shooting in your most likely shooting positions. You'll probably have better results with this method than to use what's supposed to be the magic bullet and miss due to lack of marksmanship/experience.

BOBO, I agree with that, and I completely agree with what you are saying about the BT.
As to the point about .25 not being a small caliber. In my opinion it is as small a caliber as we should be talking about for deer with the exception of kids. No need for an adult to shoot anything less. I'll probably get killed for that and the head neck shooters will pile on but thats the way I see it.

I'm enjoying this thread. I have an understanding of bullet construction/velocity/caliber matching. I learned not to try to shoot a turkey thru the wing w/ a 55gr BT from a 22-250 at 30yds the hard way (it will take the wing OFF and the bird will run like hell).
I have shot about a dozen deer w/ my 25-06 with 115gr Hornady Light Mangum factory ammo as well as 117gr Partitions and 120gr Speers in handloads. I have had DRTs with the Partitions and Hornadys but they will generally fold up within 20 yds with all of them. All were heart/lung shots. As stated by the OP, there is very small exits and little or no blood, but the innerds were puddin'. I've also shot several pigs w/ the handloads and had no exit except on smaller ones, but I'll typically go thru the shoulder blade. They are also done within a few yards if not DRT.
I have hunted very little in the past 4-5 years after giving up my lease spot and have started shooting again this fall in hopes of getting back to hunting next season. I would hate to loose an animal so I am very interested in yall's comments. I'm subscribed to this one.

This year we helped take a lot of animals off of a mld ranch. We were using a 257 weatherby mag loaded witha bunch of stuff I had laying around that I loaded. Anything from 100gr Ballistic Tips (BT), Sierra 120gr Hollow Point Boat Tails, 110 Nosler Accubonds (AB), 100 gr Barnes XLC, and Speer 100 gr soft point boat tails. Shots from 50 yds to 395. We were sitting here reading this and started counting shots. We never lost an animal that was shot. 2/3 of the shots were neck shots. The hollow points blew everything away on accuracy and overall performance after about 100 yds up close they explode as do ballistic tips. The XLC's just blew through them, hate those, these were the only follow up shot animals will use the rest of these for hogs. My 9 yr old son shot a buck at 227 yds, point of the shoulder with 110 accubond DRT. I like the speer softpoints but all in all we are going to 110 gr Nosler Accubonds as fast as accuracy allows. I saw 20 plus animals shot with the accubond at all ranges. everything died quick. We saw huge exit wounds, small exits and perfect exits. Depends on placement, angle and range.

So would it be safe to say the Accubond is good for shoulder shots but maybe a bit too solid to shoot the vitals with?

Again, I avoided the shoulder to save meat, but losing a deer leaves you even less meat.

Here's sort of a short version.

Anything legal to take deer with will kill a deer just fine if you put the bullet in the right place.

If your concern is blood trail so you can find an animal, then you want a large exit wound. Even with a strong medium rifle, there are cases where you may not get an exit wound. I once shot a black tail in the shoulder joint with a .308 150 grain old-style soft point silver tip and the bullet shattered the shoulder, turned sideways, broke some ribs, and tumbled to a rest under the hide on the opposite side. I've also made neck shots and spine shots that have taken a big chunk out. I've had through and through double lung shots leave no blood.

To increase your odds for a large exit wound, you need something strong enough to go through and weak enough to expand and make a mess of things when it comes out but not so weak that it doesn't fall apart and stop too early.

There are different designs and they all represent different ideas about how to get a bullet to expand but keep enough weight to ensure adequate penetration to hit vitals (or come out the other side). Some rounds will be for thick skinned, large game, and others will be more appropriate for Texas white tail deer.

The ballistic tip design is very popular now. It looks like a regular round with a plastic nose. When the bullet hits, the nose pushes back into a channel in the bullet and forces it to expand mechanically. Much more reliable than hollow points, which work on hydraulics and often fail when the cup fills up with things like hair, skin, or bone.