Then fine complain about the limits. Just because two laws are passed at the same time does not mean they are the same law. The antler restriction law is a restriction on antlers. You can still have a restriction on antlers and adjust the take limit. Push to have it reduced to one buck one doe, and keep the restrictions on the 13" bucks.

still quite a few of those places over 1500 in our area....

you really can't expect ppl not to pull the trigger on anything that is legal....and even a lot that isn't. And you are absolutely correct, it goes back to poor herd management and TPW allows it so apparently "herd management" isn't their goal. Atleast by allowing ppl to shoot whatever, it allows the ppl who do choose to manage their property to charge others outrageous amount of money to come shoot quality deer.

I think herd management is the goal, the problem is the enforcement of shooting young deer would be a nightmare for both the hunter and the GW. Can you imagine if the regulations said you can shoot any deer over 4 years old. How many of these 4 year old deer will be by opinions only? How many people will say to hell with it and drop out of hunting. How many people will shoot the 4 year old deer and then the GW says no it is only 3. There is no birth certificate, and some of it will be opinion only by both sides.

The charges the landowner charges is there right, if you owned a rent house house would you rent it out at less than fair market value? Do you expect to get paid what you think you are worth? Would you turn down a raise in pay because you are doing the same job today as you did a year ago. If you busted your butt to get additional education and qualifications in your field of work would you expect to get paid less than the guy that just does enough to keep from getting fired.

None of the above posts about AR is an answer, I think most will agree there is no real tangible answer. It is an experiment in trying to improve the deer herd. Some say it works some say it doesn't work. Some like it, some cuss it. In an ideal world everyone would be on the same playing field and there would be no need for regulations. But we know that people will "fudge" even with the regulations under penalty of fines etc. and would do more damage of there was no regulations.

not arguing about the price landowners could charge... actually could care less what ppl charge.


Even with the 4 + yr old scenario, that could happen, however I do not think that TPW has the manpower to do it......or the "want to". Would also be an expessive process with an appeals policy in place for those disputing their fines that could be mailed out (much like traffic tickets...from those dirty little redlight cameras) or attached to the purchase of their next license. Process should probably be for bucks only, as it seems TPW would like a thinned antlerless population. Easier to just let folks shoot what they want as long as it's within bag limits.... but from what I'm seeing in our area, the only way it is effecting us is by not allowing us to shoot some of the older bucks that don't really have what it takes to grow into what we are looking for.

Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm should I stay or should I go....

I've stayed outta this one....go for it!

OK...........my turn....... I dunno if they work a period of 10 or what ever years,.. but imo if I want to put meat in the freezer.....and i do....and yes I actually hunt for FOOD and NOT trophies, ask people i hunt with, (Sig226fan).. I like to hunt with people i can trust, espically in the smaller east Texas leases (aka, mine)it limits my possiblities to do so.

First, Helo, you and I normally agree, but technically neither are laws, they are regulations, as the lawmakers are too cowardice to make laws, so they pass the buck (pun intended) to agency heads.

Second, everyone, you can't make chicken salad from chicken s shitestuff. If the deer don't have the genes to get that big, it don't matter if they are 1.5 or 15.5.

Third, WE (goose) never had a problem, so WE didn't need a solution.

Fourth, WE hunt a lot of days, in fact, more than 95% of you guys if I am guessing right, and WE see fewer deer each year since anrnte;ker eranterl ethe, see, I can't even say it any more.

Fifth, don't pull that "that's why we need it" bsfromyouranus as WE have taken 4 deer in five years, only one would have been AR legal (others were a button on doe days, doe, and spike). The AR buck was a HUGE chocolate horned gray-mouthed old ancient swayback 13 and a quarter inch buck.

We do see a LOT of 11.5 inch 8 points(nearly touching tips), in all age groups from 1.5 to legal drinking age.... and they continue to breed.

Kinda like stupid people, if you continue to let them breed, don't expect a Rhodes Scholar from the pool.

Find me a rancher that eats the herd bull, sells all the young ones, and lets the odd balls do the work..,.

Sorry PK, Curly, Hoyt, et al, I gave in. I tried. My name is Vernon, I am an Anti-AR-aholic.

Please don't come back with doe's, please....

I quit.

Don't worry buddy.....we all know where you, me, Hoytman, PHishTX and a few other stand on ARs....even if we never type another word about it.

I just voted that I thought the 1M^th post would be on an AR thread.

Not trying to disagree with you. And I agree if the genetics are not there it won't happen. And maybe in your situation it is not good. All I was trying to say that the bag limit and the AR's can be separated, or with enough public out cry can be removed in your area. I just happen to think (and I am seeing better results) that in my area it is a good thing. I would not mind seeing the bag limit reduced also. I would like it to be one buck and one doe. That is still way more than we would ever take off my land.

Well helo. at least we agree on something! Love to see the bag limit lowered. 1 buck and 1 doe would be plenty and have the 13in. in affect or spike not both! Im glad its working for some and im not against bigger bucks but foremost i want meat and givin a choice i coild take a doe and a spike and be happy!

i think that ar are the same as bo bo's health care plan just the libs pushing their agenda on others. i do not care about the size of the racks i like to eat venison i wonder how the rack hunters would feel if they could only shoot small body deer

Leave the spikes alone and add 1 more over 13" for a total of 2 bucks over 13"

That's the only way to get the bucks to maturity.

Population is controlled by taking out does, not bucks.

I think the AR system needs to be in place, but needs to be changed.

In my opinion sig your area has bad genetics. So say they get rid of the AR's in your county how will that help?

Whistler your a meat hunter, may i ask what county you are hunting in?

Helo and Hoytman, you 2 seem to be on the same page, but from prior posts you are both hunting smaller tracts of land, less than quarter sections. In your cases the it would be for your benefit to try to get all of your neighbors on the same page to manage a larger area. That can be the snow ball in hell situation.

For most of the anti AR comments I still have not heard a solution except to get rid of it. Is that a solution or just forget it "we want to shoot whatever". Which actually might be a solution, if all of the less than 13" bucks could be killed off in one year the "bad" genes would almost be wiped out. I would not want to be hunting in those areas for a few years. I would guess the deer population would be way down for quite a few years. Or the TP&W could spend millions importing record rack breeders and get our license fees up and over $100.

Yes, I am hunting on 64 acres. It is all I can afford to own right now, but adding to it every chance I can. I am hoping to have another 20 acres adjoining my land next year, but it will be a lease. All of my neighbors seem to be on board with only shooting older deer and letting the young ones walk.

There are probably about 12 hunters for the 4000 acres around me.

As more I read on this...............I am glad we are not in a AR restriceted county

Now now 7mag, this has been an enlightening discussion. I heard through the grapevine that in the future TP&W will also have counties where you cannot shoot a deer over 18" wide. That is when I want to see the ship hit the sand!