I apologize if you thought I was speaking down to you, I was just arguing because I don't agree. Lower your opinion of me? I got folks here that think I'm okay and I've argued a lot worse with them. Now I won't be able to sleep tonight. Guess I'll lay in bed and count deer. My problem with ARs is, that they exsist and I'm not the only one who feels that way Tinkerbell. Don't hate on the AR haters....My hatred for them does not affect you.

Tinkerbell,
Agree 100%...YEAH someone on my side HA!

I understand Curly but in all honesty. TPWD has to do something over simplified to make people comply with it. What else do you use, you can't use a tine count, you can't do a weight requirement, the easiest thing is to use the antler width measurement. I know whatever I say won't change your opinion but at least recognize the fact that there was reasoning behind the regulation and they didn't just take a shot in the dark.

Truth is, we'll all likely never agree with one another on this subject. The bottom line in my eyes is landowner/public support was overwhelming in favor of the restrictions. I know because of the public opinion meetings I've attended for Hamilton, Bosque, and Mills counties. Some of you are just on the other side of the opinion and that's okay. If I am wrong about AR and the bottom falls out, I will be the first to say I was wrong for supporting. But, based on my hunting experience in Hamilton/Bosque, something needed to be done. It did and I have seen the results in a positive way. Therefore, I am excited about Mills coming on board.

Antler width (unless really wide) is hard to judge, it's not that simple, for older folks like my dad or first time deer hunters, so is it really that over simplified? Then it's brought up that the TP&W had to do something, start somewhere, again I ask, were our deer herds really hurting bad enough to impose manditory regulation changes of any kind? Wasn't it okay the way it was? Didn't Texas have enough deer anyway? Tell ya what, if guys like Hoytman and PHishTX turn their opinions around on ARs, then maybe there's hope for me too.

They are "hitting the same area" (age) because hunters are choosing to shoot less than 4.5 yo deer." It is a false leap of logic to assume that there are not other aged deer out there. It is simply hunter selectivity for the small segment of the hunters that were EVEN sampled.

The TPWD doesn't even do age surveys on live deer. You simply gotta know what you are starting with THEN count the dead deer to know where the Age Structure stands. Not allow a HUGE variable like hunter selectivity, amoung others, to skew the data.

Now,
What is the age structure that determines a healthy herd?
Don't give me the breeding problem speel from the TPWD presentation, please.
And what is the problem with a certain segmant of the buck gettin to breed?

Male deer with hardened antlers are capable of breeding, AND THEY WILL BREED !!! It does not matter how many years the antlers have been on his head (i.e. Age Structue). He will breed. Mother Nature is funny that way, She kinda takes care of that.

TPWD has data that every region in the State has +/- 90% fawning success. Age Structure doesnt seem to be a problem with breeding then right?

Phish-TX

Everybody says something needed to be done, wich im totally against because after 3yrs of ar its worse not better! Im going on my personal data on my own little section of heaven. The way i look at it is it didnt work after 3years it aint gonna work. But i will bet they aint never gonna change it back and lower the bag limit till it wipes out the herd in our county. Saw plenty of deer before ar.rules and now lucky to see a deer is all the research i need.

I will also say I was wrong for supporting them if they end up being a disaster, but from what I've seen in bosque and coryell county they do work, at least in the short term. What are the effects of them long term 10 or more years down the road, I'm not sure, but by then the regulations will probably have changed again.


Could it be the deer herd in that area is just in a down cycle, or maybe the locals are abusing the regulations and using both their buck tags regardless on the bucks size, or maybe the AR just don't work well in that part of the state (ecological region), as they did in the original AR counties. Regardless 3 years is not a long time, it takes 8 years, a full generation of deer, to see the FULL effects of the AR's.

Bossbowman you are right about one thing im sure the locals are abusing the amount of deer they are killing but guess who made those rules? TPWD! I really dont mind tpwd trying to get a little more age on the bucks its there policy on the bag limits that ticks me off. They implemented the rules without doing the homework first. As far as 8 yrs or a whole generation to get the affects is also false because if that deer gets a 13in rack at say 2 or 3yrs he is gonna get shot. By your conclusions i should have a bunch of 4yr old bucks at my place running around and i have seen 1 buck thats over 13in on my game pics along with several of those nasty old spikes and a few 4pts and 6pts that are 1 and a half yr old deer. All for bigger deer but if thats what the people want then close the season for a couple years and get the age structure and numbers so both the trophy hunters and the meat hunters will be happy. That wont happen cause then people aint gonna buy a license and tpwd wont get there money. I know , long rant but really passionate about this issue. I hope it is working in the other countys i just know it aint in ours but could if maybe the deer harvest is limited more. I love to hunt and eat deer, dont really care about size just want more numbers so i dont sit for days just waiting to see a deer.

Hoytman it is about food sources as well as management. I hunted east Texas for a few years and there just isn't the food sources in many areas to sustain a larger herd.

Pasthru we got more food than the deer could ever eat with 10 times the amount of deer we got. Between all the oaks, persimmons and other browse they have more than any west tx co. Matter of fact if we get the acorns dropping early you wont see a deer even before the AR rules took effect. Planting food plots in my area is usless cause of all the natural browse. The only time you can get good deer movement is the drought we had a few years back and we had more action than i have ever seen.

As far as food sources go, what about South Texas? I would think deer have less greenery to eat, fewer farm crops to graze on and acorns to eat as the deer in East Texas do and yet that part of the state is covered in deer. I'm just curious. I've only had the luck to hunt South Texas a couple of times and boy did I see deer! Before it's brought up, it's not East Texas poaching that hurts the deer herds there either, haha. I asked our game warden about that one time and he said South Texas has a way worse problem with poaching than East Texas does.

Think of Coastal Hay and the differance in it between East TX and West TX. More rain/more green doesn't me more protien.

East TX Coastal typically is a lot less stought then West TX Hay.


As far as poaching... Unfortantly it happens every where.

South Texas has an abundance of browse. Thats why they have so many deer, the brush country has over I want to say 25 species of woody shrub that are considered either 1st or 2nd choice browse species for deer, add in supplemental feeding programs, natural mast along rivers and creeks (acorns, persimmons, pecans), and an abundance of forbs in good rain years, also large land ownerships, targeted management for deer, and you have a ton of deer that are usually healthy.

In most places its non native pasture grasses with some woods mixed in that aren't fenced off, and the deer are just an added bonus to the cattle production in other parts of the state.

It hasn't effected too much, yet. Only been a couple years and our place. We didn't have a problem, hope it doesn't turn into one, though.

I don't like how it effect others, across the state, like Hoytman, kids, New hunters, those with limited hunting time, meat hunters, etc.

This started with a "neighbor shoots my deer problem for a co-op" (in six southern counties) and has grown to a STATEWIDE fawning, age structure, spike, falsehoods, trumped up by the legacy building TPWD personell (i.e "Daddy of Antler Restrictions).

It may be too much to ask be I'd like to see people of integrity, and honesty making the decisions for TPWD. I wish they'd just admit what they are doing, show some honesty, inegrity, and backbone. But they is no accounability built in to their TPWD appointed positions. And apparently they are comfortable promoting dishonesty, and falsehoods, since it keeps being promoted and spread across the state.....?integrity?

I oppose it 'cuz TPWD is favoring one segment of the hunting community at the expense of others. (Be it meat, kids, or new hunters, etc) They are overstepping their bounds as a regulatory agency, personal legacy building, and dishonest about what they are doing.

My support for them is next NIL !!

I do/did hunt public and other areas of the state, and there are always unforseen future opportunities, and don't want it to effect me when I'm there.

I wish others could curtail their financial support as well.
I spend the majority of my hunting money out of state. They ONLY reason I buy a licesnse is
1) to take my young sons hunting,
2) hogs, varmints,
(how about TPWD redirect their AR energy, and spending to control the damn hogs !!) A true wildlife management problem !!

Stepping down of box,
Phish-TX

Applaud!

How are they supposed to control the hogs when 97% of Texas lands are privately owned???

What kind of question is that ?

They are trying to control the deer on the same 97% privately owned land ?

Applaud

No, Phish controlling a population means killing lots of animals. Managing a population means setting guidelines and people choose. Soon like everyone else who disagreed with you here, I too will give up.

I wish you were correct on the part of your statement on managing where you said "people choose". I didn't choose to have ARs.

Same here, didnt chose em and dont want em, even went to the county meeting with tpwd and it a sham. They told us we would love em and we would have more deer and big bucks 4yr old in 30 to 40 percent population. What a crock! What they should have said is you will have 30 to 40% left of your existing population.

You stated this opinion about 5 times already. I got it the first time, I mean people choose what they harvest according to the regulations for their area. Not that people choose the regulation. Ya got me guys I give up I'm not dedicated enough to continue with my argument.
I hope one day the regulations are changed to your satisfaction so you may hunt in peace and enjoy yourselves again. As for me I'll enjoy myself now with the more deer I see,the larger deer I see, etc due to the regulation in my specific hunting area.

You seem to take offense and get a little rude in my replies to you but nobody else's replies to you. What's up tith that? You have stated your opinions each time I have stated mine.

tinkerbell i am truly happy that your seeing bigger and better deer. You are right and i did chose to not shoot any deer last year at my place because of the population crash. Just wish i could get everybody else to go with that plan but if you give them the option there gonna shoot all there legally able.