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What makes the Tak-14 legal
#7089103
02/22/18 09:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,204
CCBIRDDOGMAN
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I thought any shotgun barrel under 18" was illegal, how can the 14" barrel on the remington Tak 14 be legal?
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089116
02/22/18 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,832
Fishing Fester
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Overall length of 26 inches I thought.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089120
02/22/18 09:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 810
JESmith
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Short answer - It is not a shotgun. Never was a shotgun, therefore not restricted to the shotgun rules.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: JESmith]
#7089123
02/22/18 09:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,410
Choctaw
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Short answer - It is not a shotgun. Never was a shotgun, therefore not restricted to the shotgun rules. Exactly.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089159
02/22/18 09:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Are we talking about the Remington 870 Tac 14 shotgun? If so, yes it's a shotgun, but classified as a pistol. The barrel is 14" long and has a "pistol" grip. The pistol grip with a shorter than rifle barrel makes it a pistol. So it's a pistol that is a shotgun.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7089162
02/22/18 09:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,572
TexFlip
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Are we talking about the Remington 870 Tac 14 shotgun? If so, yes it's a shotgun, but classified as a pistol. The barrel is 14" long and has a "pistol" grip. The pistol grip with a shorter than rifle barrel makes it a pistol. So it's a pistol that is a shotgun. No. None of this. It is a "firearm". Not a pistol. Not shotgun.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089170
02/22/18 09:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,579
Gumbeaux
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Would have to be in the same classification as the Judge, right?
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089177
02/22/18 09:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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If you are an FFL, and a person buys this Tac 14 "firearm" and fills out the required FFL paperwork for transfer, there are 3 options- Handgun, long gun, Other (for frames and receivers). It is classified as a handgun because of the pistol grip and shorter than long gun barrel.
A long gun is classified as a shotgun or rifle. (Shotgun with a barrel of 18" or more, and a rifle barrel of 16" or more.) Therefore, it is classified as a handgun.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: Gumbeaux]
#7089189
02/22/18 10:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,572
TexFlip
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He didn't ask what box a FFL checks when one is purchased. He asked what made them legal. The ATF classifies the Tac-14 and Mossberg Shockwave as a "firearm" not a pistol, not a shotgun. As a "firearm", it doesn't fall under the same rules as a shotgun or pistol.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089197
02/22/18 10:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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He asked what makes it legal. It is legal because it is a handgun.
It's the same exact concept of a pistol AR-15 with a short barrel less than 16" with no shoulder mount. It's a handgun.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089202
02/22/18 10:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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ATF Rule- A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089209
02/22/18 10:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,572
TexFlip
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ATF letter to Mossberg on the 590 Shockwave.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089213
02/22/18 10:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,572
TexFlip
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From Mossberg's website.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089215
02/22/18 10:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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A handgun is a firearm right? Last time I checked it was.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089238
02/22/18 10:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,572
TexFlip
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He asked what made it legal. I provided the ATF letter and the explanation from one of the manufactures of this type of weapon. You are providing typical gun counter knowledge.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089288
02/22/18 11:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Guess what. We are both 100% correct. The Tac 14 is a firearm and falls under firearm rules (not the NFA rules, which is a different category), which is 100% correct. That's the main category it's in, firearms. There are sub categories of firearms, and the sub category of this Tac 14 is a handgun (where a normal shotgun falls under the long gun category). It falls under the handgun rules, not the long gun rules.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089382
02/22/18 11:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,204
CCBIRDDOGMAN
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So why can't you put a pistol grip on an 870 and cut the barrel to 14"?
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089394
02/23/18 12:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,572
TexFlip
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So why can't you put a pistol grip on an 870 and cut the barrel to 14"? Because it began life as a shotgun. The Tac-14 and Shockwave are only ever firearms. Loophole
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089445
02/23/18 12:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,439
TFF Caribou
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So why can't you put a pistol grip on an 870 and cut the barrel to 14"? like the flip said, you can’t change the classification of a gun after it’s been classified.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089476
02/23/18 12:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
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Because the ATF knows more than you, and they said so.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7089697
02/23/18 04:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
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Sneaky
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This just goes to show how stupid firearm laws are. Restrictions, of any kind, don’t make a lick of sense.
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Re: What makes the Tac-14 legal
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7089997
02/23/18 02:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 810
JESmith
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Think of it "kinda sorta" like buying a stripped AR lower. When you buy it, it is not a pistol or a rifle - just a firearm. What you do with it MIGHT change its status. Put a pistol grip or pistol brace on it and pistol rules apply. Put a stock on it and long gun rules apply.
Not a perfect analogy but then I am only on my second cup of coffee.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: TexFlip]
#7090066
02/23/18 03:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,233
JCO
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He didn't ask what box a FFL checks when one is purchased. He asked what made them legal. The ATF classifies the Tac-14 and Mossberg Shockwave as a "firearm" not a pistol, not a shotgun. As a "firearm", it doesn't fall under the same rules as a shotgun or pistol. I heard this same explanation on the Gun Talk podcast from the Mossberg rep. Not a shotgun based on length and grip. Not a pistol because it is smooth bore. It is a firearm as TexFlip has explained in multiple posts.
NRA Life Member (Master of Poor Decisions)
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7090073
02/23/18 03:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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I'll be sure to check the non-existent "Firearm" box next time I transfer one.
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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#7090097
02/23/18 04:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,334
9x19
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For Educational purposes only:
In the USC, "firearm" is a separate and distinct classification, it is not a broad category that is further defined as handgun/rifle/shotgun. Instead all four of those items (Rifle/Handgun/Shotgun/Firearm) have a legal definition in the code.
In this case, you should be transferring them as "Other", exactly because they are not a handgun, rifle, nor shotgun as defined and manufactured.
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