Forums46
Topics538,381
Posts9,736,474
Members87,084
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7047316
01/21/18 08:42 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
If you believe a perfect barrel can be created by imperfect factory tools and processes, no break in is necessary. While break in recommendations vary, the end goal is the same, to create a barrel that has seen most of imperfections worn away so that bullets pass through the barrel in a more consistent manner. A barrel that has seen break in steps will be far less likely to produce cold, clean bore flyers because the rifling has reached a more perfect state.
It's much the same as breaking in a new engine where rod bearings are allowed to wear to a more perfect match to their mating services on the crankshaft. This is why many old engine buffs still recommend running conventional oil for the first 500 of so miles in a new engine. Synthetic oil doesn't allow proper "bedding" of road bearings and the crankshaft. So then, when you break in a barrel, you're allowing each small group of bullets to wear away factory imperfections before cleaning the barrel and repeating the process several times until the barrel is closer to perfect.
Now having noted these points, two other views come to mind. First, just like those who say factory processes are now so good that breaking in a new engine is no longer necessary, there are those who claim gunmakers are now producing near perfect barrels that don't require break in steps as well. The other view is that if you just always shoot a dirty barrel, the fouling will aid in reducing the impact of those factory imperfections. There is likely some truth in both of these views.
All of my rifles have seen a break in process. They are always taken to the deer woods with clean bores, and they never produce a clean, cold bore flyer. In other words, a "fouling shot" to dirty the barrel is never required. You're not taking into account most rifles don't shoot well when they're clean. I would never take a shot with a clean bore. The whole ritual of shooting 5, cleaning, standing on your head, saying hail mary's, etc. is ridiculous. You're not going to affect steel using material that is designed to conform to it's surrounding.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7047321
01/21/18 08:45 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217 |
I was really hoping this is what the responses would be like, those methods seem to be a pain. Frank, owner of Sniper's Hide.com got two identical rifles, only serial numbers different. One got a break-in, one got cleaned first then shot. Through thousands and thousands of rounds of .308 the rifles always shot equally well. Break-in is nonsense. Clean it, foul it, shoot it, clean again when it starts shooting poorly, repeat. Have you ever noticed any difference in rifles that haven't been cleaned in a awhile (but were shooting good), and those you clean periodically before fouling again? I have a couple rifles that haven't been cleaned in a year or two, that shot perfect last time I took them out. Seen plenty of fouled barrels that have sat in the safe for months and come out shooting fine. My 7 Rem Mag sat in the back of the safe for 10 months. It did not have a scope on it. I moved a scope to it, and zereoed in 2 shots. Last shot would have hit a dime at 100 yards. From my experience round count, for a particular barrel, is what matters most. And from my experience button rifled barrels like to be cleaned on a lower round count than cut rifled barrels. I have more trouble out of customer's rifles that were cleaned the night before than those that arrive fouled. We've had to keep shooting at 100 yard paper looking for consistency, before heading down range way more than we've had to clean one, and try again. If memory sereves, we've had to foul one for 30 customers. We've had to clean one for 1 customer.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047355
01/21/18 09:13 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841 |
I've never even cleaned one before shooting it. Take it out of the box, mount a scope, go shooting.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: J.G.]
#7047382
01/21/18 09:32 PM
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
|
THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
I was really hoping this is what the responses would be like, those methods seem to be a pain. Frank, owner of Sniper's Hide.com got two identical rifles, only serial numbers different. One got a break-in, one got cleaned first then shot. Through thousands and thousands of rounds of .308 the rifles always shot equally well. Break-in is nonsense. Clean it, foul it, shoot it, clean again when it starts shooting poorly, repeat. Have you ever noticed any difference in rifles that haven't been cleaned in a awhile (but were shooting good), and those you clean periodically before fouling again? I have a couple rifles that haven't been cleaned in a year or two, that shot perfect last time I took them out. Seen plenty of fouled barrels that have sat in the safe for months and come out shooting fine. My 7 Rem Mag sat in the back of the safe for 10 months. It did not have a scope on it. I moved a scope to it, and zereoed in 2 shots. Last shot would have hit a dime at 100 yards. From my experience round count, for a particular barrel, is what matters most. And from my experience button rifled barrels like to be cleaned on a lower round count than cut rifled barrels. I have more trouble out of customer's rifles that were cleaned the night before than those that arrive fouled. We've had to keep shooting at 100 yard paper looking for consistency, before heading down range way more than we've had to clean one, and try again. If memory sereves, we've had to foul one for 30 customers. We've had to clean one for 1 customer. Yep. I haven't cleaned the barrels on my two main go-to rifles in years, I learned that clean barrel lesson already. They'll let me know when they need to be cleaned.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: DocHorton]
#7047394
01/21/18 09:45 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217 |
I've never even cleaned one before shooting it. Take it out of the box, mount a scope, go shooting.
I'd recommend a new practice. New barrels, mass produced rifle, or custom, can have metal chips in them from machining, machining fluid, and packing oil. Why else would solvent, followed by patches come out with discolored patches? I only saw one rifle last year that didn't show dirty patches on a brand new barrel. A Police Sniper's brand new, unfired, GAP-10.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047488
01/21/18 11:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,290
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
|
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,290 |
Last post for me on this topic...if you get a barrel that is bad and all manufacturers put them out they will ask for two things...the stub and what was your break in process? Y'all do what you want... I'm going to waste my time doing what the barrel makers say. Oh and my barrels don't burn out any quicker than yours JG so selling barrels has zero to do with it...but that's funny
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047527
01/21/18 11:25 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217 |
Tell them you broke it in. Who's to say otherwise? Yours do wear out faster, you only shoot yours half the round count I do. In fact, I need to start getting all your culls.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: J.G.]
#7047569
01/21/18 11:46 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,575
redchevy
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,575 |
I've never even cleaned one before shooting it. Take it out of the box, mount a scope, go shooting.
I'd recommend a new practice. New barrels, mass produced rifle, or custom, can have metal chips in them from machining, machining fluid, and packing oil. Why else would solvent, followed by patches come out with discolored patches? I only saw one rifle last year that didn't show dirty patches on a brand new barrel. A Police Sniper's brand new, unfired, GAP-10. Don’t they shoot factory rifles at a test target before they ship? I know some of mine have, that would explain why they are dirty. I also have never cleaned one before shooting.
It's hell eatin em live
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047589
01/21/18 11:57 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,456
Big Fitz
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,456 |
I agree with Judd. While there are many differing opinions on this topic and even more when it comes to cleaning (process, chemicals, frequency, brush or no brush) I would suggest that none of us actually has statistical data supporting either position on bore break-in. For those who clean and go shoot will never know if a break-in process would have helped on that particular barrel. For those who choose to do a barrel break-in will never know if that particular rifle barrel benefited vs. just shoot and clean.
Even the scenario JG mentioned of 2 duplicate rifles is only a data sample of 1 of each category which does not support a statistical conclusion. It would seem to me that a hand lapped precision barrel would have less potential benefit than the break-in procedure on a mass produced barrel, but that is just me.
As Buzz said, do what makes you happy.
I was wrong...on anything technical. Fitz............. is right, ya know............
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7047597
01/22/18 12:00 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
If you believe a perfect barrel can be created by imperfect factory tools and processes, no break in is necessary. While break in recommendations vary, the end goal is the same, to create a barrel that has seen most of imperfections worn away so that bullets pass through the barrel in a more consistent manner. A barrel that has seen break in steps will be far less likely to produce cold, clean bore flyers because the rifling has reached a more perfect state.
It's much the same as breaking in a new engine where rod bearings are allowed to wear to a more perfect match to their mating services on the crankshaft. This is why many old engine buffs still recommend running conventional oil for the first 500 of so miles in a new engine. Synthetic oil doesn't allow proper "bedding" of road bearings and the crankshaft. So then, when you break in a barrel, you're allowing each small group of bullets to wear away factory imperfections before cleaning the barrel and repeating the process several times until the barrel is closer to perfect.
Now having noted these points, two other views come to mind. First, just like those who say factory processes are now so good that breaking in a new engine is no longer necessary, there are those who claim gunmakers are now producing near perfect barrels that don't require break in steps as well. The other view is that if you just always shoot a dirty barrel, the fouling will aid in reducing the impact of those factory imperfections. There is likely some truth in both of these views.
All of my rifles have seen a break in process. They are always taken to the deer woods with clean bores, and they never produce a clean, cold bore flyer. In other words, a "fouling shot" to dirty the barrel is never required. You're not taking into account most rifles don't shoot well when they're clean. I would never take a shot with a clean bore. The whole ritual of shooting 5, cleaning, standing on your head, saying hail mary's, etc. is ridiculous. You're not going to affect steel using material that is designed to conform to it's surrounding. No arguement there. Clean, cold bore shots from barrels that were not properly broken in are far more likely to produce flyers. But when broken in properly, that first, clean bore shot will be just as accurate one made many shots later. If you are one who doesn't subscribe to keeping a barrel clean, by all means ignore the break in process.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047686
01/22/18 01:07 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217 |
Here we have a factory Tikka .300 Win Mag, owned by a friend of mine. I was tasked with load developmemt, and as usual, cleaned the new barrel before testing powder charges. A friend had given me some 180 gr Noslers just because he didn't need them. I decided to foul with those prior to load development, using 210 gr. Berger VLD-Hunting. I looked at Hodgdon.com and found minimum and maximum powder charges for H-1000. I picked the middle, and loaded 20, for no other reason than to foul the barrel, and get the scope zeroed CCB is clean, cold bore, and the first shot of the rifle and scope had ever fired, after bore sighting. After shot #1 I adjusted POI. Then the scope was not touched again while shooting groups. These were 5 shot groups, 10 minutes between to cool, and it was July and 95°F. No cleaning in between groups. It appears as though it had to get over the hump, then it all came together. I have seen the same scenario on many other rifles. . . . . . .
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7047807
01/22/18 02:04 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,945
Jgraider
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,945 |
No arguement there. Clean, cold bore shots from barrels that were not properly broken in are far more likely to produce flyers. But when broken in properly, that first, clean bore shot will be just as accurate one made many shots later. If you are one who doesn't subscribe to keeping a barrel clean, by all means ignore the break in process.
Hogwash.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Jgraider]
#7047839
01/22/18 02:31 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,189
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,189 |
No arguement there. Clean, cold bore shots from barrels that were not properly broken in are far more likely to produce flyers. But when broken in properly, that first, clean bore shot will be just as accurate one made many shots later. If you are one who doesn't subscribe to keeping a barrel clean, by all means ignore the break in process.
Hogwash. Yea that is
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047849
01/22/18 02:33 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217 |
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Bee'z]
#7047886
01/22/18 02:53 AM
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
|
THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
Consider the source. "Texas Dan" from Mississippi that disrespects our American flag by throwing it in a trash can without honor because he didn't like the sitting president. Yes I'm digging up bones for the newer viewers and to remind everyone what a scumbag looks like on the internet. Comes on here and wants to lecture folks about rifles and hunting in Texas, can't even pay our flag proper respect. POS.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047897
01/22/18 03:00 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 131
hornetfan63
Woodsman
|
Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 131 |
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047921
01/22/18 03:18 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,189
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,189 |
<<< Liked a post. Well said Skinner
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: skinnerback]
#7047950
01/22/18 03:39 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
Consider the source. "Texas Dan" from Mississippi that disrespects our American flag by throwing it in a trash can without honor because he didn't like the sitting president. Yes I'm digging up bones for the newer viewers and to remind everyone what a scumbag looks like on the internet. Comes on here and wants to lecture folks about rifles and hunting in Texas, can't even pay our flag proper respect. POS. Thank you. For those looking for a truly objective and informative read on the topic at hand, try the link below. http://www.rifleshootermag.com/gunsmithing/break-rifle-barrel/
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7047954
01/22/18 03:41 AM
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
|
THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
You've got it all figured out Dan, you're the man.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7047986
01/22/18 04:04 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,189
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,189 |
Least he does not have it in a lead sled in the article...
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: _Lee]
#7048604
01/22/18 06:04 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,850
Texan Til I Die
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,850 |
I used to do the clean, shoot 2, clean, shoot 3, clean, shoot 5, clean, shoot 10 method of break in, but on my last two new rifles I cleaned and just started shooting. So far, no noticeable difference in accuracy between those rifles and my older ones that went through the other break in process. I've got about 500 rounds through one of them and about 300 through the other.
Silver spurs and gold tequila keep me hanging on. Pretty girls and old cantinas give me shelter from the storm.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Bee'z]
#7048638
01/22/18 06:46 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
Least he does not have it in a lead sled in the article... What's wrong with a Lead Sled? Looks like a great way to reduce the human influence on accuracy.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7048652
01/22/18 06:58 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
Least he does not have it in a lead sled in the article... What's wrong with a Lead Sled? Looks like a great way to reduce the human influence on accuracy. Not for those who consider themselves a shooting and hunting legend in their own mind.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7048655
01/22/18 07:01 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424 |
Least he does not have it in a lead sled in the article... What's wrong with a Lead Sled? Looks like a great way to reduce the human influence on accuracy. Not for those who consider themselves a shooting and hunting legend in their own mind. Que?
|
|
|
Re: Barrel break in?
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7048696
01/22/18 07:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,217 |
Least he does not have it in a lead sled in the article... What's wrong with a Lead Sled? Looks like a great way to reduce the human influence on accuracy. They can shoot differently than shot from a shoulder, and stocks have been broken in Lead Sleds.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|