Put it this way, if I were going to get into a gunfight with one of those you mentioned. The SS 5-20 HD would be number 1, and the ERS would be number 2.

Simply due to the fact that the SS of mine has been extremely reliable. The ERS had been reliable as well (with cleaner glass) but it simply has not fired, or spotted, as many rounds as the SS 5-20 HD.

I don't disagree. But prices aren't the same between them either.

Only reason this really came up was because I could get a great deal on the Vortex. I wasn't even looking to upgrade my 16x42 except that I didn't like that it didn't have a side focus knob and the lack of zoom was limiting. If I was going to upgrade, the Vortex was at the top end (or actually beyond) my budget. Anything more expensive was just a dream.

I 100% agree that in a firefight, I want the most reliable option and that's probably the SWFA (maybe it's the "Glock" of the scope world). Build quality on it was excellent, and the HD glass was really fantastic through the entire zoom range. But I just couldn't get over the idea of paying more money for that reticle and that focus knob compared to the Vortex.

The Bushnell ERS was way, way out of any realistic budget for me new, and I just couldn't wrap my head around paying $1k+ for a used scope. But it really was just an all-around excellent piece of equipment - no disagreement there.

Of the sub-$1k scopes, the PST was clearly the best. I don't disagree that the next level up has some nice upgrades that make it worth the jump. If I decide to move up down the road, I can probably sell the PST without taking much of a hit and make the upgrade. But for now, I really think it's more than I'll ever need.

Why?

You ever bought a used truck?

Except that scope has a great warranty, the truck doesn't. It's a sliding scale, $2k retail, equates to $1k+ used. It's actually a great deal, as some scopes sell for 80% of what they were retail.

Primarily, because I could get everything I wanted in a new scope for less than $1k. I do agree that the Bushnell at $1,100 used is probably a great deal. But according to my wife, my budget did not reach that level.

I get that. I really wanted a SWFA but the price point on the burris 4-20x made it clear. I would be glad to haul it out there and if jeremy comes you can look at the PST 2 side by side. Not sure if Jeremy was just being nice or it really was close. I liked them both honestly. I only peaked through Jasons bushnell stuff so I do not know what that is capable of. I know that ATACR is effing nice though. Really nice.

I saw some ATACRs for sale on SH, but they're crazy expensive even used. That's when you know it's good stuff.

Come on out to B Tactical some time. It's a fun place to shoot and I'd like to see your XTR II in comparison to the PST II. I've seen that you can find the XTR II on sale for really nice prices, especially the 4-20 version. And I can definitely see the appeal of it if you get a copy with good glass. Their reputation online is that Burris has good service, but it really isn't needed very often, which is great for peace of mind.

The couple xtr I've looked through were really nice for the price. Vortex has burned me on qc. When you have 4 gen 2 razors in a squad and none are of the same quality then there is a issue. Seems a large gamble of getting a good one or a mediocre one.

I hear the same thing about Taurus pistols, but between my dad, brother, and me, we have 4 of them that have never had a hiccup. Great for the price (or they used to be before they got way more expensive in the last 3-4 years). And undoubtedly, Vortex has a much better reputation than Taurus.

We'll see how it goes with the PST. Worst case is that I have some quality issues and have to use the universally renowned Vortex CS. I can live with that for the glass quality, features, and price.

Seems like the PST Gen 2, XTR II, etc. are in that upper echelon of scopes that are made in Phillipines, and the next level up ($1500+ street price) are all made in Japan. I'm sure there is some kind of quality difference there. If it ends up biting me, maybe I'll convince the wife to let me upgrade down the road. It isn't like I have to live with this scope forever if it's awful. But after taking it outside last night, I can tell you that the reticle, turrets, and glass quality are all an enormous upgrade from the 16x42 I've been using. So for now, I'll assume innocence until proven guilty and enjoy my early Christmas present.

Enjoy, I have been happy with my vortex and its not a gen II

You can lead a horse to water, dee....

No argument here. The water looked great. But my wife looked at the price of the water, yanked on the reins, and told me to stop looking at things I know I can't have...

Update:

I bought the PST Gen 2 and unfortunately, I ran into two small issues. One - the elevation turret was pretty stiff for about 1/4 of the travel during each turn (not horrible, but just enough to make me worry that something wasn't quite right inside). Two - adjusting the eyepiece for my eye ended up bottoming out the adjustment to one end. When I looked through the scope for more than 5-10 seconds against certain targets, the reticle would start getting blurry. Long story short - I returned it. Went to SWFA and sorted through the 5-20 HD non-illumated models they had on the shelf and found one with a smooth, not-too-stiff parallax knob, good/crisp turrets, and exceptional glass, and took the plunge.

I still think the PST Gen 2 is the best combination of features, glass quality, and price on the market. I don't think there's anything else even close to be honest (with the possible exception of a Burris XTR II if you get one with good glass). $1100 for a zero stop, really excellent illumination, FFP, good mag range, reliable tracking, good turrets, very good glass, not made in China, and a great reticle is just not going to be found anywhere else. That being said, the SWFA 5-20 HD is probably the best combination of build quality, reliable tracking, and glass quality anywhere south of $2k in my opinion. You just have to be willing to live with no zero stop, a mediocre reticle, and no illumination (or pay more for illumination that most folks don't seem to think very highly of).

Feel free to go ahead with the "I told you so" comments - I can take it. I still believe 100% that they're both great values and the PST Gen 2 is a really high quality scope with a ridiculous amount of features for the price, but the one I had just didn't work for me and I had to swap it out.

So why did t you just send it back to Vortex?

Honestly, I don't have a good answer for that. I'm sure they would've taken care of it. My real fear was that the reticle issue would be unresolve-able and I'd be stuck with the scope after having it too long to return it. Something about my eyes with that reticle just didn't seem to go together, and I couldn't pin it down to a reticle issue that wouldn't be fix-able even with a brand new scope or an ocular adjustment issue that was particular to that scope.

Either way, the glass on the SWFA 5-20 is very, very good and I really like it. But there's no doubt that you give up features and money for the extra build quality and glass quality.

I’m with redchevy, in that I have the ‘old’ model PST and like it just fine. My complaints, and I have a couple, are that the illumination is too bright even set at minimum, and the magnification ring is too tight. And, if I shot steel at distance, maybe the glass would disappoint me.

What I find much more interesting is that the Gen 1 PST was considered by the knowledgeable forum crowd to be pretty darn special, particularly at the $1k price point, until it became old news and no longer worthy of ownership. Consider that this is a hunting forum and not specifically a long range target forum (though surely the two can co-exist),and that just maybe a bit too much emphasis is placed on what a scope needs for 1000yard shooting, whereas a much less expensive scope that would be more than enough for hunting is deemed to be or hinted to be undesirable or marginal. That said, most of us old hands know the difference, but not everyone does.

603country

Vortex addressed several issues with the Gen 2 PST:

More forgiving eyebox
More useable illumination
Better optical clarity through entire zoom range
Added zero stop

Have yet to see anything Vortex track,repeat or hold zero...............

I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never get tired of being right.

LOVE schlepping Vortex Guys along,with a Toldjaso issued wellllllll in advance.

The hard part is scoring enough Bleach,to get the smell off one's mitts.................

Did you mean to say “fail to track...”?

Early reports on the Gen 2 are that tracking is very good.

I'm never not crystal clear..............

I do really love the SWFA 5-20, but I stilll think the lesson here is that the Vortex is an excellent scope - just not the right fit for my eyes.

Really? You're going with "excellent scope" after all the warnings, after all the other options you were given, after buying a brand spanking new one, and it gave trouble. You're gonna go with "excellent scope"?

Without hesitation.

My scope history:

SWFA 16x42 - tracked consistently but I only shot it to 300 yards so I can’t verify accuracy
SWFA 3-15 SFP - POI shifted when changing mag range
Sold my tactical stuff and got out of the centerfire game for awhile
Next SWFA 16x42 - major issues with optics and tracking (returned for another 16x42)
Next SWFA 16x42 - really good optics and consistent tracking, but inaccurate (up to .3 mils error at 6.5 mils from zero)
Vortex PST2 - slightly stiff knob and reticle blur
SWFA 5-20 - ?

They all have issues and they’re all compromises in one way or another (quality, features, price). The SWFA 5-20 compromises on features. The Vortex PST2 compromises in QC, but it’s not like it’s made in a China or anything. It’s a good scope - just didn’t work for me. Lots of folks use and love them. If I’m not mistaken, the Gen 1 is the #1 scope in PRS production division (or was). And then Gen 2 is an upgrade in every way. I’m just at the point that I want the most bulletproof scope I can get and I think that’s the SWFA HD.

If you’re looking new, I don’t know of another option that gives good turrets, good glass, great reticle, illumination, and zero stop at the $1k price point. Used is another story, but these will likely be the best value at their price point used as well once they’ve been out for awhile and prices settle down. Doesn’t mean that you can’t spend more and get more (like the ERS for example), but I don’t at all believe these are junk either.

Glass is easy.

6x MQ or 10x MQ and hold the Fluff.

Hint................