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Stock refinishing questions
#6762251
05/12/17 02:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Deerhunter61
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What is the best way to remove a lacquered finish? Will a toothbrush be enough to get it out of the checkering? Or would I need to use a wire brush?
Thanks,
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6762260
05/12/17 02:54 PM
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Colt W. Knight
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There is not easy answer to this question. First, you need to know what kind of finish is on the gun stock to find the best stripper. For example, folks commonly refer to lacquered finish as any gloss finish. However, lacquer is specific type of clearcoat/paint that is generally cellulose or acrylic based that uses an acetone as a solution media. The best way to strip a lacquer finish is to simply use lacquer thinner or acetone. Brush it on, when it starts wrinkling. Wipe it off with a rag damp with lacquer thinner/acetone. Alcohol and things like bug spray will also strip lacquer finishes, but not as well. Another common clear coat used by DIYers and wood working folks is polyurethane. Polyurethane is oil based (with exceptions - there are water based polyurethanes, and these finishes are best removed with either chemical stripper like citrus stripper or a heat gun and scraper. These are generally poor quality finishes and you don't see manufacturers using it. Most gun manufacturers are going to a very strong polyester finish which is very difficult to strip. They generally come off using hard core strippers like Airplane Stripper. You need excellent ventilation, gloves, and skin protection to use these. Another common finish would be enamel, and most strippers, acetone, alcohol or mineral spirits will remove those. Shellac, which was more common a generation or two ago is thinned and stripped with alcohol. Varnishes are mixes of drying oils and polyurethanes for the most part and are easily stripped with citrus stripper or mineral spirits.
Of course, in modern times, the rules of clearcoat/paint are extremely blurred because most finishes incorporate modern chemistry and are mixes of enamel, poly, and lacquer with waterbased becoming ever more popular.
Hope that helped. The airplane stripper will remove anything. It brushes on, and is in goo form. You can then use a soft bristle cleaning brush to wipe it out of the checkering and remove the finish. A nylon or brass bristle brush will work fine. IT may melt of toothbrush, haven't tried that.
Last edited by Colt W. Knight; 05/12/17 02:58 PM.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6762387
05/12/17 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Buzzsaw
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What finish does a Pre 64 model 70 have?
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6762396
05/12/17 05:05 PM
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Deerhunter61
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Thanks Colt! Where can I find Airplane Stripper?
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6762424
05/12/17 05:39 PM
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Deerhunter61
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If I wanted a factory like finish what should I use after I strip it?
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6762712
05/12/17 11:45 PM
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Colt W. Knight
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Unless you have spray equipment, I would stick something like Tru Oil, just be prepared to do all the prep work and apply a million coats. It can turn out great though.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6762713
05/12/17 11:46 PM
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Colt W. Knight
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You can buy airplane stripper at automotive stores and even Wal-Mart over by the Bondo
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Colt W. Knight]
#6764106
05/14/17 11:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,230
Marc K
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There is not easy answer to this question. First, you need to know what kind of finish is on the gun stock to find the best stripper. For example, folks commonly refer to lacquered finish as any gloss finish. However, lacquer is specific type of clearcoat/paint that is generally cellulose or acrylic based that uses an acetone as a solution media. The best way to strip a lacquer finish is to simply use lacquer thinner or acetone. Brush it on, when it starts wrinkling. Wipe it off with a rag damp with lacquer thinner/acetone. Alcohol and things like bug spray will also strip lacquer finishes, but not as well. Another common clear coat used by DIYers and wood working folks is polyurethane. Polyurethane is oil based (with exceptions - there are water based polyurethanes, and these finishes are best removed with either chemical stripper like citrus stripper or a heat gun and scraper. These are generally poor quality finishes and you don't see manufacturers using it. Most gun manufacturers are going to a very strong polyester finish which is very difficult to strip. They generally come off using hard core strippers like Airplane Stripper. You need excellent ventilation, gloves, and skin protection to use these. Another common finish would be enamel, and most strippers, acetone, alcohol or mineral spirits will remove those. Shellac, which was more common a generation or two ago is thinned and stripped with alcohol. Varnishes are mixes of drying oils and polyurethanes for the most part and are easily stripped with citrus stripper or mineral spirits.
Of course, in modern times, the rules of clearcoat/paint are extremely blurred because most finishes incorporate modern chemistry and are mixes of enamel, poly, and lacquer with waterbased becoming ever more popular.
Hope that helped. The airplane stripper will remove anything. It brushes on, and is in goo form. You can then use a soft bristle cleaning brush to wipe it out of the checkering and remove the finish. A nylon or brass bristle brush will work fine. IT may melt of toothbrush, haven't tried that.
Thank you for this information! It is valuable to me. Marc
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6764168
05/15/17 12:49 AM
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Deerhunter61
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Ugh...what a pain in the but! I watched a vid on YouTube and it looked pretty easy....BUT I really didn't think it'd be that easy but then I didn't really think it'd be this big of a pain in the but either! Ugh...two coats and still not even close. Still, once it's done it'll be done and then I get to the part that hopefully will go much better.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6764176
05/15/17 12:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Colt W. Knight
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Refinishing sucks. Folks ask me to refinish guitars a lot. I tell them I will build them a new body and paint it cheaper than I'd charge to refinish
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6764192
05/15/17 01:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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What finish does a Pre 64 model 70 have? Buzz, they used a finishing process where lacquers were applied to pre-64 M70 stocks in a series of steps. The process was modified at various times.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6764218
05/15/17 01:43 AM
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Colt W. Knight
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Winchester would have used shellac in the early part of the 1900s, once lacquer was developed in the 1920s, most manufacturing switched over to lacquer because it's a better finish that holds up better, sprays on nicer, and buffs out beautifully. I think Winchester switched to lacquer ~1930s. If someone requested an oil finish, Winchester would have applied a boiled linseed oil finish. Terms like varnish and lacquer get used as general terms for any clear coat, so a lot of bad info gets thrown around because of bad terminology. Lacquer and shellac are both evaporative finishes, so they don't cure chemically. The solvents simple evaporate over time. They are also porous finishes, so they are prone to moisture damage and shrinkage. Lacquer, especially, will sink into the grain and oxidize, making an old lacquer finish look like an oil finish. Shellac will behave similarly.
Winchester, like any company would have tried new things and had issues with suppliers, so I've heard they used varnishes and different oil finishes after wwii
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6764239
05/15/17 02:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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One step on the early Model 70s included application of lacquer that had carnuba was in it, but during WW II supplies diminished, so a modification of the process was adopted. The Rifleman's Rifle by Roger C. Rule is full of all kinds of info. I wish it was what I refer to as "light reading," but it is not.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6764341
05/15/17 04:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
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dogcatcher
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Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6765022
05/15/17 11:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Slow Drifter
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Honestly? The last stock I refinished, I had done. I didn't go to a gunsmith, though. I took the stocks to one of those un-finished furniture places. They all have finishing booths in the back, and all the equipment and young horsepower to run it. It was an original Wichester Model 63 that "came with" a barn I bought. There was enough finish left to show them what I wanted. It turned out beautiful.
"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones." A. Einstein
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6765332
05/16/17 12:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Deerhunter61
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Well, I finally got it stripped...there's a couple of spots that are a little darker than the rest so I'm going to try the iron/steam deal and see if the oil, I'm assuming it's oil, will come out. Then I'm going to do some light sanding and then start refinishing it.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6767302
05/18/17 02:08 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Deerhunter61
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Stripped, steam iron, sanded and first coat of tru oil is done...I like the way it looked tonight after the first coat. I plan on putting on three coats and then determine whether I put anymore on it. What can I seal it with? Or should I put anything else on it? Will tru oil do a good enough job sealing it?
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6768289
05/19/17 01:55 AM
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Colt W. Knight
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Tru Oil is a hard finish, and you do not have to use a seal coat. However, if you would like to seal it, Birchwood Casey makes a wax that is designed to go on top. Paste wax also works, or even car wax. IMO, 3 coats of Tru Oil is not a lot, so I would suggest putting on some more coats. Be sure not to rush the oil coats. Piling on thick coats is not as durable as lots of thin coats. If you think the tru oil is too shiny, you can scuff it up to a beautiful matte finish with some 0000 steel wool. If you like semi-gloss or satin, you can then apply some wax on top of the scuffed tru oil. The key is to apply the wax, let it dry a bit, then buff rigorously with a soft cotton cloth. That makes it a nice hard wax finish as opposed to soft oily finish that shows fingerprints and wipes off.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6768329
05/19/17 02:29 AM
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Deerhunter61
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Thanks Colt...it's looking really good! My concern with continuing to put more coats on it is that it will continue to darken. The color now really shows the wood grain and I simply don't won't to loose that effect. Thoughts?
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Colt W. Knight]
#6768489
05/19/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Texas Dan
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The key is to apply the wax, let it dry a bit, then buff rigorously with a soft cotton cloth. That makes it a nice hard wax finish as opposed to soft oily finish that shows fingerprints and wipes off. Best wax for almost anything
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6768556
05/19/17 01:58 PM
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Colt W. Knight
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Just about any oil or oil base finish will add a tint to the wood, Here is a guitar neck I finished in Tru Oil. It is a figured maple, so the natural color of the wood is an egg shell white color. You can see it adds a bit of amber tint, but not a lot. Before AFTER Tru Oil is a polymerized oil, so it will actually bring out more chatoyancy in the wood than other clear finishes. Essentially, it will make the grain pop. If you really want to the grain to show through and pop out amazing, You should fill the grain with a dark grain filler. This will add contrast and really make the grain of the wood stand out. Here is an example - Although, it is a bit over done at this point (there was more finish layering to do after this to tie it all together)Just an example
Last edited by Colt W. Knight; 05/19/17 01:59 PM.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6769452
05/20/17 01:31 PM
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Deerhunter61
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Outstanding Colt! Beautiful work!
I'm almost done...I'll post picks when I'm finished...just finished sanding, steel wool, the fourth coat. Also I've been doing thin coats. I going to be putting on the 5th coat in a bit.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6769662
05/20/17 06:53 PM
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TDK
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I've finished a lot of stocks...you're putting them on too quickly.
Last edited by TDK; 05/20/17 06:53 PM.
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: TDK]
#6769667
05/20/17 07:07 PM
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Deerhunter61
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I've finished a lot of stocks...you're putting them on too quickly. Thank you
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Re: Stock refinishing questions
[Re: Deerhunter61]
#6774220
05/25/17 04:25 AM
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Deerhunter61
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So guys, I'm finished with the stock...stripping, sanding, and putting 7 coats of tru oil on it. I will be putting it all together tomorrow evening and will post pics in photos. Thanks for all your help!
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