What's the best thermal with 2 gun settings for under 3 grand? Way to many choices for me to sort through.

I might add reliability, visibility, ease of use are most important to me.

The good news is... for under $3k you don't have much to pick from.

I have a FLIR-based Thor 19mm (not the new HD models which have varying reputations depending on who you ask). It's good to 100 yds, but that's about it for clear sighting and it does have (4) profiles. My "Holiday Hogs" post below has some video where I state the distance I'm shooting at.

I'd recommend the Pulsar XD-38A (don't know if it has the multiple profile capability). It has a 38mm objective @ 50hz which really matter for the visibility part. UNV has them with the DVR for $2,999, so you'll just squeak by.

Don't try and compare what you see in the IR Defense Patrol videos for example, with what you're going to get for $3k.

Charlie

Charlies correct, not many options under 3. You can find a good deal on a used unit but you're still looking at either a pulsar, an ATN or an armasight product. Pulsar or Armasight is what to look at. The new ATN scopes don't have a great reputation. With the pulsar though you'll need to upgrade the mount in order to use the multi rifle abilities. The factory mount sucks big time. Armasight comes with a good mount but for the Zeus you'll be spending a little more than the pulsar. Feel free to shoot me a message and I'm glad to help you research. I been doing the thermal thing for quite some time now.

Interesting, the Pulsar mount seems to work very well as a non-QD type mount. Very solid.

I have no issues with the Pulsar mount either. Budget is everything when it comes to thermal. Personally, I think you will be underwhelmed with the cheaper scopes unless you always hunt in a short, closed in area.

Spend a little more and get an XD50a or XD50S....that will still be $3500-3900. You'll be much happier with the extra magnification.

After that I don't see a point in spending more unless you are stepping up to a Mark II which is $6500.

When is Flir going to come out with their rendition of an Armasight scope?

I have the same budget as you (3k) and I was super pumped up about IR Defense's announcement of a budget line with decent resolution, this was about a year ago based on a new cheaper core.

Well IRD sold out Trijicon and it never came to be - too bad it would have changed the entire market....

I have more patience than money so I'm waiting for the market to get crowded at 3k before buying

It's fine as a permanent mount but the OP specifically said he wants to use it on multiple guns. As a QD mount it sucks. The solution is the ultimate night vision pnvm plus a quality QD acog mount of your choice. Then it's a reliable multi weapon scope.

Flir is coming out with a version of the armasight zeus. That said it's still pretty much just a zeus with a new name. Same body and whatnot. The Zeus is good option also if you can get to around 4 you might be able to get a lightly used 640 Zeus 42.

I invested an extra $140 and put a qd mount under my XD50A. I switch it back and forth between my AR and my 22 mag. Good enough to shoot coons at 50 with the WMR then shoot coyotes out to 180 with the AR.

I'm new to the thermal and interested in the Pulsar XD50 and adding the DVR. What's the difference/advantage between XD50A and the XD50S. Thanks guys

OLED screen

On the S

Which mount did you buy. I can't tell the difference based on pictures. I've used the cheap Chinese stuff before. Can you share a link?

Not having looked through both, I can't say how much better the OLED screen makes the picture. What I can say is that my 50A does two things which the 50 oled doesn't do. First the PIP goes to 8x while the oled goes to 4x and second it has reticles that are available in red or green whereas the oled has black and white. I don't know if the oled has the sepia color scheme that I like on the 50A. Someone who has one might jump in and comment on that.

It's two separate pieces. I don't remember exactly but I think I got the info from here somewhere. I'll look and see if I can find my receipt.

Do the Pulsar's (38 or 50) allow you to save different zero settings for different mountings or round type?

Charlie

They allow 3 profiles.

^^^see my above post. UNV PNVM and Acog mount of your choice. I used a larue mount when I had my apex.

Good info. So I guess a new Apex Pulsar XD50A for $2700 would be a good deal

Nope that's a great deal!

That would be such an unbelievable deal to make me think something's not quite right.

Charlie

I'd agree with you, that price is lower than any dealer cost that I've seen.

I can get a few ATN's for under $3000 and the Flir RS32 pretty dang close to $3000, but Pulsar price is too good to be true.

I'd make sure they're not thinking Hd50A.

Except that there are different levels of dealer cost. Just the same, $2,700 is lower than I know of ANY dealer selling them for.

Well guys I called the dealer back again to reconfirm XD50A and he said it is an XD50A and pulled it for me. I drove over there and back in this snow flurries and traffic is starting to stack up and a few slick spots in shadows of underpasses (saw 1 car skid and wreck). Got there and owner was out. They had the unit behind the desk brand new but it was a 38!!!

I knew it had to be too good to be true but you'd think after 2 calls asking for model verification for sure that the guys could read. The shop wasn't busy either.

Awaiting reviews of the Pulsar Trail Thermal and price points which I thinks should hit market after next week Shot Show probably about March.

Yeah I just found out last week that Flir bought Armasight for 41 million dollars. I had to send my Armasight Long Range IR illuminator back to them because it junked out on me.

I've seen a few articles mentioning this, most of which guesstimate the MSRP to be between $3-5K. THIS ARTICLE however, stated the MSRP would be $2,799.97.

It sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing full specs.

The Pulsar Trail may just fit the ticket. I can wait 3 months I guess unless I get a deal I can't refuse on a XD50A.

I just stumbled across this on YouTube. UNV video of the Pulsar Trail. Pretty dang impressive if it's really going to be a sub $3k scope. It says XP-38, I wonder if there's going to be an XP-50?



Charlie

It will be a shock to the industry if they release a sub 3k 640 cored scope. Not seeing that, but I'm thinking they will continue to be the low price leader when compared to comparable products from other competitors. Add their reputation for the best customer service in the industry. What's not to like?

Agree.
The article I referenced did not mention any particular details, so I'm certainly interested in hearing what comes out of the SHOT show next week.

Yessir.... I was mainly responding to Charlie's statement, "Pretty dang impressive if it's really going to be a sub $3k scope." Just don't see a sub 3k scope with a 640 core and certainly no bigger than their 38 at that price.

It has convinced me to wait a few weeks to see that's for sure.

A shock? That looks more like an electrocution, but that is something the industry needs!

For that price, I would buy one just to have it as a spotting scope!

I will be reviewing the Pulsar Trail Tuesday at Shot....stay tuned.

Gamechanger....

Yessir...it is absolutely what the industry needs and for that price I would buy a couple just because. LOL...

Since the UNV version was a prototype, be sure to tell us if the final version has audio or not.

That is an impressive video- I will cross my fingers the production version will look that good.
I am sure we will hear more after the SHOT show next week.

BG, I got to field test the prototype Apex XD50 before the production models came out. There is no reason to believe that the quality will fall off with production. There were some minor changes with the firmware control features, IIRC correctly, but things turned out as good or better than the prototype when it came to production.

Yeah, with Pulsar I'm sure it will be as good as the prototype. They do a pretty good job of getting things worked out. I bet it has sound too. Don't get your heart set on sub 3k for a 640 core though.

Archer

See what you can find out around price given the disparity on what we've seen publishing.

Charlie

According to my buddy at Pulsar, the new trail series is gonna be a game changer. I'm supposed to find out some more on them pretty soon.

Tell him you know where a group of willing testers are located...

Charlie

We'll see. Unless they are really offering this scope at under 3K and it works properly, none of the technology described for it so far is a game changer. The description so far just sounds like they are playing catch-up with ATN, though I suspect they will do it much better. UNV's post on AR15.com just says it will be sub $5K and if so, put it squarely in ATN's neighborhood for the Thor HD 640 series.

Charlie, they have a whole pro-staff system, but I do believe you are a little late to join this year.

I talked to one of my guys at Sellmark yesterday, he is 99% sure it is not audio capable. It is rated IPX7 which is
Suitable:
•Splashes
•Rain or Snow
•Showering
•Incidental exposure to water of up to 1 meter for up to 30 minutes


With this knowledge in mind, I am GUESSING that it does not have audio capability. My solution is simple, I have a mini digital voice recorder that I have on occasions "velcroed" to my rifle or pistol, if you watch some of my videos, I do like to lay down multiple video tracks, so, adding a separate audio track in synchronous with the video from the Trail is no big deal.

As for the Pulsar trail, I do recall that my guy told me that, I think [and don't quote me yet!!..lol] there are 320/330? core and of course 640 core versions....thus the 3K - 5K pricing that has been discussed.

Game Changer? well....in my mind, the features versus the competition such as being able to ZOOM the PIP video INDEPENDENT of the non-PIP video is BIGLY...

You get the ZOOM of the PIP while still maintaining the full field of view of the non-PIP. This is for the guys who have seen and used the current Apex Thermals that still have the straight PIP.

ALSO....depending on your internet connection on your smartphone..all the software is done via a smartphone app. AND any F/W software changes/updates = BIGLY, too...

In fact...you with a 3.5 second delay can stream video "live" while you are "filming" live.

One feature that I think someone else uses..is the "money shot" as I call it..lol. As soon as you turn on the unit it starts recording [8GB onboard] which is plenty for 640x480 video quality. The recording fills the memory until it is FULL, then the oldest video starts getting pushed out/deleted/purged to make room for newer video.

....if the shot recoil is detected it saves so much video time before and after.

I am not sold on this feature yet...I like to have FULL CONTROL of the video recording, which is also available via a simple menu change.

Another nice feature, the remote control of which I dearly love on my Apex thermal is now FULLY CAPABLE to control all MENU selections [as opposed to the simple ON/OFF/Display Off, Calibrate, Black-hot/white-hot/PIP 3 button on the current models.


So many features....at SHOT I will do a duo-video setup...I'll have my big Canon video camera recording [which will capture audio] synchronized with the Pulsar Trail video. I plan on doing a FULL VIDEO REVIEW at the booth...

stay tuned...I fly from Freezing Cold Ohio to Sunny Las Vegas tomorrow morning...

Did a quick google search, found this as far as memory capacity, your mileage will vary as I do not know the Pulsar Trail's frame rate

CREDITS: I uploaded these pics from the article Pulsar Trail Thermal

LOL...Now, I know you know that nobody is playing catch up to ATN after all their debacles. Even if Pulsar never released a 640 core product they are a way better company with products that actually work as advertised.



I would be almost certain that you have used a Thor HD by now and have realized that it has a lot of the fidgety issues the X-Sight did. If you move side to side, the image sways and plays catch up for instance. There is also the issue where ATN's Thor HD in 4.5X seems very comparable mag-wise to the 2X Pulsar XD50. Me thinks ATN has misrepresented what 4.5X should look like. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IP-HC49BD8&t=36s



Just to say, they have always used the French ULIS 384 core. A switch to 320 or 336 would mean a manufacturer change I believe. This will be the long awaited 640 product from them.

Game changer is a strong word. However, I am very happy to see they are moving in this direction. Onboard night time rangefinder? Ballistics? Maybe?

Sorry Charlie, that's what prostaffers are for.

Their prostaff has never really worked that way. Changes afoot. Maybe it will get worked out.

Confirmed, it will have sound.

awesome.

copy that. I double checked and yes, the Pulsar Apex Thermals all have the 384x288 core.

I stand corrected on the 320/336.

Tuesday can't come fast enough!

Some data from Pulsar, but no pricing that I can see yet:

Trail XP50 - http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/thermal-imaging-sights-trail/thermal-imaging-sight-trail-xp50/

Trail XP38 - http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/thermal-imaging-sights-trail/thermal-imaging-sight-trail-xp38/

Good find. Was hoping for more optical mag. The 50 is only 1.6X. That won't work for me. Like the variable smooth mag feature though.

Pricing should be along shortly.

There is an XP model and XQ model line, which will represent the 640 and 384 cores respectively.

Here's at least one site that's showing the XP50 with pricing at $6,900. I'll admit that I was hoping for a lower price …

http://www.nightvisionguys.com/pulsar-trail-xp50-thermal-riflescope-2-5-20x50

That seems like and overly optimistic price for a 1.6x native magnification 640 resolution thermal scope. Surely that is a typo.

I agree.

Here's one priced at $5K — That's getting closer to attracting my interest.
http://usaoptics.net/pl76509.html

At least we're beginning to see some prices …

y'all hang tight, pricing should be better on this new stuff than y'all are seeing so far.

I sure hope so.

These are minimum advertised prices:

Trail XP38: $4499.97
Trail XP50: $4999.97
Trail XQ38: $3299.97
Trail XQ50 $3799.97

Core RXQ30V: $1899.97
Core FXQ38 FA: $3999.97
Core FXQ50 FA: $4499.97

If theres any other prices you guys are looking for let me know and I'll post them up.

I think FLir will be releasing a new line soon and if the guy i talked to is right the prices will be good

stxhunter, that seems much more appropriate!

I think my 50A is only 2x. Pip is what does it for me.

Yep, I've got pricing and the new catalog right in front of me.

Flirs new thermal comes out in a month or so. New processor suppose to make new 340 look like old 640
$2200 for 320 and 640 will start 4400. I'd wait a month or so

FLIRs of yester year were dogs in terms of image quality - for their sake I hope your right on both price and performance as they have some market share to try and gain back in relation to rifle scopes.

Software is a great help , when it works...

Agree ^^^^

Somebody always has something new coming, buy what you can afford and go enjoy it, this weekend!

Now that Trijicon owns IR Defense I am curious if pricing will come down on them.
I will be getting one in soon.

Thanks Pig Popper. Now just waiting for some actual field tests posts from you regulars.

I have the ATN Thor HD 384 2-8x and I love it. It works great up to about 200 yards for identification. 2,600.00

Comes with a QD mount so you can easily mount it on different rifles and save a zero profile for each rifle so you do not have to re-zero each time you switch it.

Are they keeping the XD38 and XD50? They still show on the website and was wondering if the price is going to come down.The XQ is only $300 more than the current XD prices.