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Suppressor Document Verification??????
#6517315
10/29/16 05:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,230
dredd
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,230 |
Didn't want to hi-jack the other thread.
So....
Does anyone know of anybody that has ever had to validate the possession of a Suppressor? (Or any thing else)
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6517676
10/30/16 12:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,755
ccoker
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,755 |
no, but I keep pdfs on my phone and papers handy
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: ccoker]
#6518178
10/30/16 02:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,511
syncerus
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,511 |
no, but I keep pdfs on my phone and papers handy I do exactly the same thing.
NRA Patriot Benefactor & DSC Lifer
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6519023
10/31/16 02:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 489
HandgunHTR
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 489 |
Nope. I have been in the NFA game for a few years and have yet to be asked for my papers. Not even for my Form 1 suppressor.
#FighttheNoise
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6519079
10/31/16 02:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,273
boonee
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,273 |
I carry laminated copies of my "stamps" any time I leave the house with my SBR, or cans.
Avenger Firearms 214-577-5818 avengerfirearms@gmail.com
Lifetime NRA member
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6519445
10/31/16 01:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696 |
Apparently the gun range around here wants everyone to prove they own their NFA items if you want to shoot there. This is just what I've heard but also some others on the forum have said similar things about other ranges. Not sure why a range cares if you own a suppressor. Either way I'm not going to shoot somewhere that asks for me to prove I can possess my NFA items.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6519545
10/31/16 02:46 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016 |
Didn't want to hi-jack the other thread.
So....
Does anyone know of anybody that has ever had to validate the possession of a Suppressor? (Or any thing else) I have twice but not to the ATF, two different firearm ranges asked to see them or I could not use their range; 1. Red's in Austin 2. A Place to Shoot in San Antonio
Last edited by SingleShot85; 10/31/16 02:51 PM.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: SingleShot85]
#6519555
10/31/16 02:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696 |
Didn't want to hi-jack the other thread.
So....
Does anyone know of anybody that has ever had to validate the possession of a Suppressor? (Or any thing else) I have twice but not to the ATF, two different firearm ranges asked to see them or I could not use their range I'm really curious why they care? I get that it is their range and their rules but what is the point? They hold no liability if you aren't the owner of NFA items. Just like they hold no liability if a convicted felon walks in and shoots at their range.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: krmitchell]
#6519564
10/31/16 02:55 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,016 |
Didn't want to hi-jack the other thread.
So....
Does anyone know of anybody that has ever had to validate the possession of a Suppressor? (Or any thing else) I have twice but not to the ATF, two different firearm ranges asked to see them or I could not use their range I'm really curious why they care? I get that it is their range and their rules but what is the point? They hold no liability if you aren't the owner of NFA items. Just like they hold no liability if a convicted felon walks in and shoots at their range. I got all twisted off on the guy at Red's but that was when I first got my can back in 04' but since I always had the paper work it was never a prob. I'm not so stand offish these days..... mainly because I have my own range
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: SingleShot85]
#6519566
10/31/16 02:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696 |
Didn't want to hi-jack the other thread.
So....
Does anyone know of anybody that has ever had to validate the possession of a Suppressor? (Or any thing else) I have twice but not to the ATF, two different firearm ranges asked to see them or I could not use their range I'm really curious why they care? I get that it is their range and their rules but what is the point? They hold no liability if you aren't the owner of NFA items. Just like they hold no liability if a convicted felon walks in and shoots at their range. I got all twisted off on the guy at Red's but that was when I first got my can back in 04' but since I always had the paper work it was never a prob. I'm not so stand offish these days..... mainly because I have my own range After I heard about that I won't go to red's, and no one can seem to give an explanation as to why this is warranted. I also have other places to shoot so it is no big deal for me, I just don't get them wanting to look over paperwork which they have no need to see.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6519634
10/31/16 03:29 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
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Posts: 2,016 |
The owner of Red's said my range my rules if you don't like it move on......
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: SingleShot85]
#6519669
10/31/16 03:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,696 |
The owner of Red's said my range my rules if you don't like it move on......
And I totally get that as it is their right, and because so they lost my business. Aside from running people off just because, I really want to know what their justification is for asking. I just don't get it I guess.
Last edited by rexmitchell; 10/31/16 04:19 PM.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6519723
10/31/16 04:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,420
ZK-315
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,420 |
I've been checked once at Weber's shooting range in Troy. There was a CHL class going on while I was testing some loads out, and when their class was over, the instructor walked over to check. He was nice about it and said that if they (instructors) saw a can being run, they (not sure who "they" are, owners??) wanted the instructors to just check for paperwork.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6520076
10/31/16 07:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954 |
I have spoken to several LEO's, including a Game Warden, about this. They said even if you show them the paperwork, it's often difficult to know who can have it, since many suppressors are in a company and/or trust names. Most of the time an LEO is asking for ID, is for a simple ticket or simple infraction. If it were a situation where it were more serious, then they would dig into the suppressor paperwork more. But most of them do not even ask about it.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6520212
10/31/16 08:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,696 |
I have spoken to several LEO's, including a Game Warden, about this. They said even if you show them the paperwork, it's often difficult to know who can have it, since many suppressors are in a company and/or trust names. Most of the time an LEO is asking for ID, is for a simple ticket or simple infraction. If it were a situation where it were more serious, then they would dig into the suppressor paperwork more. But most of them do not even ask about it. I carry a copy of my trust along with copies of my stamps with me at all times as well. I have a feeling this isn't something that would normally be checked and I would make it easy to prove it is mine and I'm allowed to have it in case that comes up. With that being said, back to a more important question. If LEO's aren't even asking for proof every time, why the hell is a gun range asking to see paperwork.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6520681
11/01/16 12:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 426
Woj
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 426 |
After reading this, (and I thought I knew, but...) what exactly am I required (by law) to have with me when using my can? I have three ordered, waiting on the stamps, and my trust is completed.... when I get the stamps and pick up the cans, what am I required to have with me to transport / carry / use them?
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: Woj]
#6520852
11/01/16 02:16 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,052
RHutch
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,052 |
After reading this, (and I thought I knew, but...) what exactly am I required (by law) to have with me when using my can? I have three ordered, waiting on the stamps, and my trust is completed.... when I get the stamps and pick up the cans, what am I required to have with me to transport / carry / use them? A PHOTOCOPY of the Form 4 with stamp attached. Keep the originals in a safe place....as in a safe.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6571819
12/05/16 03:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 986
westexhunt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 986 |
That's big brother crap. All my nfa items are in a trust, and I have my ATF stamped form photocopy somewhere close but the only name on the form is my trust. I could let anyone take them anywhere and no "range officer" would know the difference. I am sure as hell not carrying a copy of my trust around to appease some douche at a gun range (not that I have ever shot at a range). Are these guys going to make a citizens arrest and turn me over to the ATF? I am blessed to live where I do and have the freedoms I have. The older I get the more I appreciate it. I get along really well with most everyone and many of my friends are LEO, I respect any person that respects me, but for the most part I just want to be left alone. Off the soap box, I hope suppressors come off the ATF list soon.
Last edited by westexhunt; 12/05/16 03:13 AM.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6571860
12/05/16 03:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 248
BooneDog
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 248 |
Make sure you have everything for Bass Pro shops in Grapevine. I was in there with a buddy getting a scope mounted last spring. The older gentleman that runs the range with the coke bottle glasses was inspecting a guys paperwork before he would let him in the range. I have seen college professors grade midterms quicker than he was inspecting the guys paperwork. The guy through a fit and finally tried to leave but the old man behind the counter was still studying the paperwork. The owner of the can knew every law and article off the top of his head. I would bet he had his paperwork straight it seemed like Bass Pro did not want a can in there to me.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: krmitchell]
#6572487
12/05/16 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 680
Eyesofahunter
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 680 |
I have spoken to several LEO's, including a Game Warden, about this. They said even if you show them the paperwork, it's often difficult to know who can have it, since many suppressors are in a company and/or trust names. Most of the time an LEO is asking for ID, is for a simple ticket or simple infraction. If it were a situation where it were more serious, then they would dig into the suppressor paperwork more. But most of them do not even ask about it. I carry a copy of my trust along with copies of my stamps with me at all times as well. I have a feeling this isn't something that would normally be checked and I would make it easy to prove it is mine and I'm allowed to have it in case that comes up. With that being said, back to a more important question. If LEO's aren't even asking for proof every time, why the hell is a gun range asking to see paperwork. My guess is most ranges are FFL's and fall under ATF oversite. If ATF shows up and sees Class 3 stuff on site they are probably going to ask for documents, if the docs are lacking or unclear then the FFL "could" end up sideways with ATF and endanger their lively hood. LEO are not subject to oversight by ATF and it is their discretion to ask. An angry ATF agent is nearly as bad as and angry IRS agent you want to avoid both at all costs so I can see the point of asking to avoid going down the rabbit hole.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6572535
12/05/16 05:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,778
Gone to Texas
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,778 |
I used to carry my original paper work on me at all times because I was worried about not having the right stuff. I then realized how dumb this was and put all the PDF's on my phone and google cloud so I can access from anyone's device.
Hopefully we will not need the paperwork in the near future...
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6573811
12/06/16 04:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,853
huntingag01
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,853 |
Carry copies. Not showing PDFs on my phone to any LEO as I am not handing my phone over to them. not hiding anything, just don't trust most of them.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6592636
12/18/16 08:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,517
BoomStick
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,517 |
I carry a color copy in a ziplock bag, and place it in the stock of one rifle and the grip of the other. Part of the rules of having it. I dont see the big deal with producing it if someone asks for it on their property or business. That's their right, and thats why you have a copy of it.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: Eyesofahunter]
#6593443
12/19/16 05:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,696 |
I have spoken to several LEO's, including a Game Warden, about this. They said even if you show them the paperwork, it's often difficult to know who can have it, since many suppressors are in a company and/or trust names. Most of the time an LEO is asking for ID, is for a simple ticket or simple infraction. If it were a situation where it were more serious, then they would dig into the suppressor paperwork more. But most of them do not even ask about it. I carry a copy of my trust along with copies of my stamps with me at all times as well. I have a feeling this isn't something that would normally be checked and I would make it easy to prove it is mine and I'm allowed to have it in case that comes up. With that being said, back to a more important question. If LEO's aren't even asking for proof every time, why the hell is a gun range asking to see paperwork. My guess is most ranges are FFL's and fall under ATF oversite. If ATF shows up and sees Class 3 stuff on site they are probably going to ask for documents, if the docs are lacking or unclear then the FFL "could" end up sideways with ATF and endanger their lively hood. LEO are not subject to oversight by ATF and it is their discretion to ask. An angry ATF agent is nearly as bad as and angry IRS agent you want to avoid both at all costs so I can see the point of asking to avoid going down the rabbit hole. I'd say that is a really big stretch, again where does the law say that any range you are at must ensure you are legally possessing something? Why don't they do background checks to ensure a felon isn't renting a firearm or shooting one? Seems if they rented a gun to a convicted felon then they cold be held criminally liable. (and that is a much more likely scenario than someone not legally possessing a suppressor. Point is there is nothing that says a range needs to check paperwork on NFA items.
Last edited by rexmitchell; 12/19/16 05:22 AM.
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Re: Suppressor Document Verification??????
[Re: dredd]
#6594186
12/19/16 08:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 253
the444shooter
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 253 |
Yeah, I had to show my copy to Doc at Bass Pro in Grapevine one time, and after that, I left my cans in the pocket(s) of my range bags. Installed them once I was down in the rifle tube and never had him ask again.
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