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Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505093 10/21/16 12:33 PM
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Sounds like some of our THF'ers often times have something illegal in their vehicle...

If trying to check for ownership of atv's brings only a handful of meth heads and criminals that stole from good people and fellow hunters to justice or at least punishes them a little then I'm ok with it.

I have been nothing but truthful with every cop that has ever pulled me over, ive never had trouble with one, never been arrested and only gotten a very few tickets for the number of times ive been pulled over. Never met a cop in person that pulled me over I didn't think was an alright guy just doing his job. Some of yal are just a little too scared of the govt.


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Re: Profiled! [Re: Palehorse] #6505094 10/21/16 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Palehorse
I got pulled over coming back from a hunt once by a young local cop. I had a rack sticking out of the top of a cooler that I had the head in. It wouldn't fit, so it was easily seen.



The cop came up to me and said, "You weren't doing anything wrong, I just wanted to have a look at that deer you had in the back!" He was a deer hunter too. He checked it out and we B.S.ed for a few minutes. He the said, "Well, I gotta go. Congratulations!" He never even asked to see my drivers license.


I'd a broke my neck trying to look at that one, if I was a cop I probably would have pulled you over just to chat too.


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Re: Profiled! [Re: tehachapi] #6505103 10/21/16 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: tehachapi
Texretvet is 100% correct. Law enforcement are NOT your friends. By trying to be friendly you set yourself up for a bust. Never volunteer or answer any questions from any authority.


THIS! Most local cops I'm fine with but Texas State Troopers...that's another story! I've only met one who didn't come across as a jerk! Most act like they have the little man syndrome....there's no doubt they have a tough job in many ways but they don't have to be jerks while they are doing it. And I'm speaking from personal experience.

Re: Profiled! [Re: redchevy] #6505104 10/21/16 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Sounds like some of our THF'ers often times have something illegal in their vehicle...

If trying to check for ownership of atv's brings only a handful of meth heads and criminals that stole from good people and fellow hunters to justice or at least punishes them a little then I'm ok with it.

I have been nothing but truthful with every cop that has ever pulled me over, ive never had trouble with one, never been arrested and only gotten a very few tickets for the number of times ive been pulled over. Never met a cop in person that pulled me over I didn't think was an alright guy just doing his job. Some of yal are just a little too scared of the govt.


Really? Ugh...

Re: Profiled! [Re: krmitchell] #6505105 10/21/16 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: Deep Sea
Have none of you ever heard of the 4th amendment? Too many of you sound like "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!" I will not lie to a LEO or even mislead them. But if one ever pulls me over for a "speed check" just so a game warden can check me out or for any other dubious reason, I will be calling my lawyer and not answering any questions.


Exactly^

Re: Profiled! [Re: Deerhunter61] #6505198 10/21/16 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Sounds like some of our THF'ers often times have something illegal in their vehicle...

If trying to check for ownership of atv's brings only a handful of meth heads and criminals that stole from good people and fellow hunters to justice or at least punishes them a little then I'm ok with it.

I have been nothing but truthful with every cop that has ever pulled me over, ive never had trouble with one, never been arrested and only gotten a very few tickets for the number of times ive been pulled over. Never met a cop in person that pulled me over I didn't think was an alright guy just doing his job. Some of yal are just a little too scared of the govt.


Really? Ugh...


Really? Ugh... what? You want the cops to protect you but you wont give them the means to do so.


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Re: Profiled! [Re: redchevy] #6505233 10/21/16 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Sounds like some of our THF'ers often times have something illegal in their vehicle...

If trying to check for ownership of atv's brings only a handful of meth heads and criminals that stole from good people and fellow hunters to justice or at least punishes them a little then I'm ok with it.

I have been nothing but truthful with every cop that has ever pulled me over, ive never had trouble with one, never been arrested and only gotten a very few tickets for the number of times ive been pulled over. Never met a cop in person that pulled me over I didn't think was an alright guy just doing his job. Some of yal are just a little too scared of the govt.


Really? Ugh...


Really? Ugh... what? You want the cops to protect you but you wont give them the means to do so.


How do you check ownership of an ATV? They aren't required to be registered, or it could be from out of state and no one is going to carry paperwork everytime they transport it. So now what? You can't prove you own something that you legally do. What is going to happen?

Last edited by rexmitchell; 10/21/16 02:14 PM.
Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505234 10/21/16 02:14 PM
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"Speed Check" That's laughable.

Re: Profiled! [Re: krmitchell] #6505256 10/21/16 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
How do you check ownership of an ATV? They aren't required to be registered, or it could be from out of state and no one is going to carry paperwork everytime they transport it. So now what? You can't prove you own something that you legally do. What is going to happen?


Aren't atv/utv's titled? Same thing with boat motors, like it says on the parks and wildlife site DO NOT BUY A MOTOR/MOTOR WITHOUT CLEAR TITLE. You shouldn't buy an atv that you cant get clear title to.


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Re: Profiled! [Re: redchevy] #6505278 10/21/16 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
How do you check ownership of an ATV? They aren't required to be registered, or it could be from out of state and no one is going to carry paperwork everytime they transport it. So now what? You can't prove you own something that you legally do. What is going to happen?


Aren't atv/utv's titled? Same thing with boat motors, like it says on the parks and wildlife site DO NOT BUY A MOTOR/MOTOR WITHOUT CLEAR TITLE. You shouldn't buy an atv that you cant get clear title to.


Some are, some aren't. Same thing with UTVs. Boats/motors and trailers are required to be registered if they are going to be used on public water, not if they are being used on private lakes. ATV's aren't required to be registered if you are using them on private land (which most of us are), nor is there a requirement to have a title when purchasing. My point is, unless they can prove it is stolen then you should have no obligation to be able to prove it is yours. More importantly (and this is why I posed the question), you shouldn't have to carry documentation that you own something that is riding in the back of your truck. That to me is no different than getting questioned and asking to prove you own the firearms you are in possession of, or your coolers, feeders, etc.

Last edited by rexmitchell; 10/21/16 02:50 PM.
Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505280 10/21/16 02:49 PM
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Last weekend the game warden came to our camp like he does about this time every year. He told us about this exact scenario. During the bow season they will ride with DPS, when they pull over a suspected hunter, DPS asks if they had any luck. If you answer "YES" then game warden gets out and gets involved in the conversation. He said it is so easy because all of the hunters want to talk about what they have shot.

On the way to the lease I got pulled over just leaving my neighborhood for speeding (I was trying to make the evening hunt). When he asked where I was going I told him bowhunting. He was a bowhunter also and he kept me on the side of the road, lights flashing, in my neighborhood for 10 minutes talking about bowhunting. Then he told me to keep it under the limit and have a safe hunt!!

Re: Profiled! [Re: krmitchell] #6505293 10/21/16 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
How do you check ownership of an ATV? They aren't required to be registered, or it could be from out of state and no one is going to carry paperwork everytime they transport it. So now what? You can't prove you own something that you legally do. What is going to happen?


Aren't atv/utv's titled? Same thing with boat motors, like it says on the parks and wildlife site DO NOT BUY A MOTOR/MOTOR WITHOUT CLEAR TITLE. You shouldn't buy an atv that you cant get clear title to.


Some are, some aren't. Same thing with UTVs. Boats/motors and trailers are required to be registered if they are going to be used on public water, not if they are being used on private lakes. ATV's aren't required to be registered if you are using them on private land (which most of us are), nor is there a requirement to have a title when purchasing. My point is, unless they can prove it is stolen then you should have no obligation to be able to prove it is yours. More importantly (and this is why I posed the question), you shouldn't have to carry documentation that you own something that is riding in the back of your truck. That to me is no different than getting questioned and asking to prove you own the firearms you are in possession of, or your coolers, feeders, etc.


Please explain, which ones are and which ones aren't titled?


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Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505302 10/21/16 02:59 PM
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It would seem if they're financed they'd be titled.

Re: Profiled! [Re: redchevy] #6505305 10/21/16 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
How do you check ownership of an ATV? They aren't required to be registered, or it could be from out of state and no one is going to carry paperwork everytime they transport it. So now what? You can't prove you own something that you legally do. What is going to happen?


Aren't atv/utv's titled? Same thing with boat motors, like it says on the parks and wildlife site DO NOT BUY A MOTOR/MOTOR WITHOUT CLEAR TITLE. You shouldn't buy an atv that you cant get clear title to.


Some are, some aren't. Same thing with UTVs. Boats/motors and trailers are required to be registered if they are going to be used on public water, not if they are being used on private lakes. ATV's aren't required to be registered if you are using them on private land (which most of us are), nor is there a requirement to have a title when purchasing. My point is, unless they can prove it is stolen then you should have no obligation to be able to prove it is yours. More importantly (and this is why I posed the question), you shouldn't have to carry documentation that you own something that is riding in the back of your truck. That to me is no different than getting questioned and asking to prove you own the firearms you are in possession of, or your coolers, feeders, etc.


Please explain, which ones are and which ones aren't titled?


An older one prior to 1985 was not required to be titled in Texas, in Oklahoma they didn't require titles until 2005. I feel like UTVs didn't have to be titled prior to 2009. The title requirement is only that they come with a title when manufactured, after that point there is no registration requirement. I could keep looking at other states but my point is some ATVs weren't titled/won't have a title and more importantly have no obligation to be registered if they are being used on private land.

TPWD touches on a few of these things regarding registration here as well:

http://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/texas-off-highway-program/faqs-about-the-texas-ohv-program

Quote:
Do All Terrain Vehicles (ATVs) need to be registered at the county tax assessors/collectors office before being used at OHV venues located on the public lands of Texas?

No, ATV registration is no longer required in Texas. Under the provisions of HB3849, TxDOT would no longer register all-terrain vehicles (ATV) for off-highway use; and the $6 registration fee and $6 ATV safety fee would no longer be collected. Titles for ATVs and Motorcycles can still be obtained at your local county tax assessor/collectors office.

Do ATVs used at OHV venues located on the public lands of Texas need a Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) registration decal?

No, ATV registration is not longer required in Texas and therefore, the TxDOT ATV registration decal is no longer required. Under the provisions of HB3849, TxDOT would no longer register all-terrain vehicles (ATV) for off-highway use; and the $6 registration fee and $6 ATV safety fee would no longer be collected.


So back to my original question what happens if you can't prove you own an ATV riding in the back of your truck that is rightfully yours?

Maybe one of the LEO's on here can chime in because this is a legitimate question.

Last edited by rexmitchell; 10/21/16 03:12 PM.
Re: Profiled! [Re: rifleman] #6505313 10/21/16 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
It would seem if they're financed they'd be titled.


They will all be titled now, at least coming from the dealership but that doesn't account for every other one that is in existence that might or might not have a title.

Re: Profiled! [Re: krmitchell] #6505323 10/21/16 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
An older one prior to 1985 was not required to be titled in Texas


To me that says that every atv in texas after 1985 should have a title.


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Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505333 10/21/16 03:20 PM
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Maybe it's just because I'm older now, but I no longer get all upset over stuff like this. Dealing with LEO's is just like dealing with anyone else. If you go into the interaction expecting trouble, you're more likely to find trouble. A classic example of self fulfilling prophecy.

When I was younger, if anyone gave me the slightest amount of grief, I was ready to bow up and defend my own pride. It didn't matter who it was, bosses, teachers, cops, friends, even my own father. As a result, I had a lot of ugly confrontations, physical and otherwise. I look back on those days now, and I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

I've now learned the beauty of letting s#!t slide. I'm not saying you should let folks walk all over you, but it's silly to escalate a minor situation like a cop wanting to make sure something isn't stolen by going into the interaction with a bad attitude.

If you are getting verbally or physically abused though, that's a different story.

Re: Profiled! [Re: redchevy] #6505341 10/21/16 03:26 PM
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Got pulled over by DPS one night. Pulling a trailer with my 4 wheeler. Reason for stop, my license plate was to dirty to read. Kinda hard to see with a trailer and 4 wheeler right behind it. After giving me a verbal warning and me telling him I had just left my lease, out pops a GW. First thing they did was find the Vin # on the wheeler and call it in. Didn't need no paper work on the bike. But, I guess if the Vin # came up sayin stolen, then I would have some splainin to do!!

Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505354 10/21/16 03:34 PM
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That's why I can't understand your position, rex. It doesn't matter if the ATV has to be registered, titled or not. If an ATV's owner reports the vehicle stolen, it's VIN (serial number) is what will be entered in TCIC/NCIC. And that's what the LEOs will be checking it against. If you're not hauling a stolen vehicle, then don't worry about it. If you are hauling a stolen vehicle, you better be able to prove ownership.

As for the OP, a "speed check" is bs. It would have pizzed me off, but I'm not going to debate it on the side of the road with a guy working traffic. I'm going to be speaking to his supervisor and the county DA after the fact.

Re: Profiled! [Re: Palehorse] #6505372 10/21/16 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Palehorse
Maybe it's just because I'm older now, but I no longer get all upset over stuff like this. Dealing with LEO's is just like dealing with anyone else. If you go into the interaction expecting trouble, you're more likely to find trouble. A classic example of self fulfilling prophecy.

When I was younger, if anyone gave me the slightest amount of grief, I was ready to bow up and defend my own pride. It didn't matter who it was, bosses, teachers, cops, friends, even my own father. As a result, I had a lot of ugly confrontations, physical and otherwise. I look back on those days now, and I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

I've now learned the beauty of letting s#!t slide. I'm not saying you should let folks walk all over you, but it's silly to escalate a minor situation like a cop wanting to make sure something isn't stolen by going into the interaction with a bad attitude.

If you are getting verbally or physically abused though, that's a different story.



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Re: Profiled! [Re: fouzman] #6505376 10/21/16 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: fouzman
That's why I can't understand your position, rex. It doesn't matter if the ATV has to be registered, titled or not. If an ATV's owner reports the vehicle stolen, it's VIN (serial number) is what will be entered in TCIC/NCIC. And that's what the LEOs will be checking it against. If you're not hauling a stolen vehicle, then don't worry about it. If you are hauling a stolen vehicle, you better be able to prove ownership.

As for the OP, a "speed check" is bs. It would have pizzed me off, but I'm not going to debate it on the side of the road with a guy working traffic. I'm going to be speaking to his supervisor and the county DA after the fact.


Fair enough, they should be able to check the vin. My comments were directed towards "proving ownership" when questioned about it. If it isn't reported stolen then there should be no reason to have to prove ownership, agree? It should be presumed that the person in possession of it is the owner and the encounter should be over at that point. No checking titles, registration, bill of sale etc.

Last edited by rexmitchell; 10/21/16 03:54 PM.
Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505406 10/21/16 04:07 PM
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Every think they might just ask you for proof of ownership because its easier than digging through the caked on mud to find a vin.


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Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505407 10/21/16 04:07 PM
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Agree on proof of ownership, rex.

Re: Profiled! [Re: redchevy] #6505420 10/21/16 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Every think they might just ask you for proof of ownership because its easier than digging through the caked on mud to find a vin.


Honest question though, how many people carry stuff like that? Especially for an ATV?

Re: Profiled! [Re: LarryCopper] #6505423 10/21/16 04:23 PM
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Its nothing new that cops stop people and ask for it. If I hauled one a lot on major highways I would carry it to avoid a hassle. I walk so no atv and no trouble.


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