Profiled!

I was on the way back from the lease last weekend with my brother in my dusty truck when I saw a TX DPS officer in an SUV on the side of the road. I didn't think I was speeding so I was surprised when he turned on the red n blues and came after me.

I had my license and insurance ready on the dash and both hands on the wheel when he got to my door with the window open. LEO have it tough, I try real hard to make it easy as I can. He told me I was being pulled over for a "speed check", whatever the heck that is. He saw all the gear in the back and asked if we had been hunting. Told him we were so busy we didn't have time to bow hunt, but I did pop a white wing around camp. He said OK, asked a few more questions about it (I thought he was just making conversation) then went back to his vehicle.

About 5 seconds after he gets in another LEO gets out of his passenger side and came up to my truck. Game Warden... he asked for my license and what I did with the dove. Told him I didn't have time to clean it so I had it in the cooler. I'm sure if I had breasted it out I may have caught some static. Having no running water paid off!

It wasn't until afterwards when he sped off, going around a couple of sedans, to pull over a pickup towing a trailer with an ATV that I realized what had happened. They were fishing. Profiled! It's probably better I didn't figure it out until it was over.

Anyone ever had that happen?

Exactly why you NEVER volunteer ANY information to ANY authority.

+1

Texretvet is 100% correct. Law enforcement are NOT your friends. By trying to be friendly you set yourself up for a bust. Never volunteer or answer any questions from any authority.

True, I was even told that by a cop.

It's the time of year they get stiffies for this stuff. I have been pulled over for it before, and they were more interested in how my trailer was registered.

I guess you could say I have been "profiled" before. LOL

When I was about 17 me and a friend were fishing from the bank at Lake Ray Hubbard. After we left and were going over I-30 a Game Warden pulls in behind us. He asks if we had been fishing and we told him yes. Asked if we caught any and we said yes. He asked to see them and we told him we let them go. He then proceeded to search the truck inside and out. Even looked under the sun visors and in the Mapsco for them fish we let go. Obviously he was looking for more than fish that day and never found either.

Maybe I need to start a Camo Lives Matter movement.

I know a guy that got pulled over just because he had two four wheelers on his trailer.
They wanted all the paper work to check if they were stolen.
That's a good thing, but just shows you have to be prepared.

Just how do you avoid answering if LE asks a direct question about your activities such as "Been hunting"? Lying to an LEO is obstruction of justice, isn't it?

Yeah, I don't understand the point of the thread...... they did there job, you did what you are supposed to do. The end.

Why would you lie or withhold information unless you were hiding something....good grief.

On I-20, they used to sit on the bridges and look for deer in the back of trucks. If you had one, a GW would pull you over shortly. Never bothered me

Had the exact same thing happen to me coming into Browmwood in front of the old 3M plant...

Trooper Pulls me over and as he's talking to me (I was Speeding) see someone in my right eye talking to Lovie thru the passenger side window..

Trooper and I chat and he gives me a warning then said I think my Partner needs to ask you a few questions, checked my Coolers and we chatted...There's a reason it says State Police on a Wardens Vehicle now...Didn't Bother me a Bit, both were Brothers and Trooper gave me a Warning when I was obviously speeding..

Don't do anything wrong and you won't have a issue

In Texas all you have to give them is your name. Anything else you can decline to answer

In your case if you have a deer in back of a truck then I have no issue with LEO pulling a person over.

The OP was just driving and had a dusty truck and then next person had ATV, that would be profiling.

You are in construction, why don't authorities pull over construction crew in vans with ladders and arrest those for not having a work permit or a legal entry visa or not carrying their greencard as they are required to do by Federal law?

Some of you folks who try to pass yourselves as being so smart really aren't. Geeze.

Wonderful advice in this thread. I think our resident criminal types are revealing themselves.

Should've started off the conversation with.."I don't hunt, I stole all of this stuff." The GW probably wouldn't have cared about a dove.

Not to be rude but if I was asked to prove that a ATV I had was mine I'd ask them to prove that it wasn't. There is no requirement for registration/paperwork, etc. on an ATV being pulled on a trailer. People need to stop accepting when they are pulled over and asked to prove they own something just because they are in possession of it. That is pure BS. I've never been asked anything like this so maybe I don't look guilty but it is ridiculous to be accused of a crime for no reason and supply information needlessly.

It could be worse. A lady friend of my wife lives with a fairly rough looking Mexican (untamed beard and years of wear and tear). I think he's legal, but I never asked. He's quite a nice guy and knowledgeable on several topics. While the ladies visit, he and I visit. The subject of profiling came up, and I asked him if it was really that much of a bother to him. He said he gets pulled over 3 or 4 times a week. He has a decent truck and usually a trailer with lawn care gear on it. No criminal record and doesn't drink.

As for me, except for a ticket or two over the last 30 or 40 years, I've only been pulled over for nothing one time. Fat DPS cop pulled me over at Madisonville after I pulled out of the Sonic in my BMW. I had done nothing wrong, unless eating a burger left handed while I drove was a violation. I had on a suit and tie, heading to a meeting. I really think he was training the rookie that was with him on how to do a traffic stop, and he was probably sure that a burger eating white guy in a BMW wouldn't fill the air with lead. He was a jerk, and didn't need to be. It wasn't profiling, but I lost most of the love I had for the DPS.

Have none of you ever heard of the 4th amendment? Too many of you sound like "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about!" I will not lie to a LEO or even mislead them. But if one ever pulls me over for a "speed check" just so a game warden can check me out or for any other dubious reason, I will be calling my lawyer and not answering any questions.

Exactly^

Yes, I am reading all the sheeple chime in and I am screaming at my computer screen! We don't have to be d!cks to the cops, and I am not. I am usually very friendly to every LEO I see. I rarely get pulled over as I don't speed or do any other infractions. But I promise I would be hauled off to jail in a screaming fit if I was ever pulled over and asked to prove anything. That is not how it works in America, and I will not let it start with me. I guess you guys are OK with check points too?

+1. You don't have to be rude to have your rights respected. We have had more than one thread regarding police pulling over someone only for having an ATV in the back of their truck. I can't believe people aren't more pissed off about being hassled because of this. It is not only illegal but it is ridiculous to pull over every person who has an ATV simply because of that.

Coming from a family of LEO's, I've never had any problem with them doing there job and checking me. But there is a good reason while I leave most of my gear at the ranch so I can run up and down the road and not worry about getting pulled over. Not because I'm doing anything wrong, I just don't need any help being any later.

But hunting gear or an ATV is not probable cause to pull you over. I am not saying it doesn't happen, just saying I would stir up all kinds of mess if they pulled me over for these reasons. If I get pulled over for doing something wrong, and they query me and I let slip I have a fresh killed deer in my truck that I have to get out of the July sun.....well that is fair game and I would deserve anything I received. If I was pulled over for a "speed check" and then they found a bass that was a 1/4" too short, now that is illegal on their part. The end does not justify the means. Just because they might catch criminals by doing this, does not make it ok for them to do this. I would vote to let Ted Bundy off if they had found him this way. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. We all have to follow the law, including LEO's.

I wish I could find the thread were a bunch of people were saying there was nothing to be done about every person on the highway with an ATV getting pulled and checked/having to prove it was theirs. It was ridiculous and everyone acted like it was no big deal and that it couldn't be avoided.

I got pulled over coming back from a hunt once by a young local cop. I had a rack sticking out of the top of a cooler that I had the head in. It wouldn't fit, so it was easily seen.



The cop came up to me and said, "You weren't doing anything wrong, I just wanted to have a look at that deer you had in the back!" He was a deer hunter too. He checked it out and we B.S.ed for a few minutes. He the said, "Well, I gotta go. Congratulations!" He never even asked to see my drivers license.

While that seems harmless I wonder what he would have done had he found something illegal in your car? That banter sounds good on the surface but just seems like he didn't have a legit reason to stop you, but did anyway.

I don't think it was like that, at least I didn't think so. He never snooped around looking at anything. I just took it as he was a good ole small town boy that wanted to check out that deer. They're not all out to get you.

I feel the same about most LEO's and fully support they job they do. I also understand that the majority of their job they have to deal with degenerates and that sucks. However, that doesn't give anyone a free pass to illegally stop or harass someone. While it very well may have been a harmless encounter, as noted above he could have had a GW with him and gone a completely different direction.

^^^^this! No they are not all out to get you, heck, most of them aren't out to get you. I follow a general guideline for life, it covers most all people no matter what profession. 5% are over achievers who are seriously gung ho types, 90% are just trying to do their job and go home at the end of their shift, and 5% are worthless sacs of crap who are one screw up away from being fired daily. Most cops you ever meet will fall into the 90% who just want to do their job and go home, same as me.

OK, I admit it. I've stopped a guy for having a nice set of muledeer horns in the back of his truck. When I approached he asked what he had done and I told him nothing, I just wanted a closer look at his deer.

Are you the fella that pulled me over? If so, hello again!

OK, I'll weigh in on this from a different perspective.

No, the police shouldn't pull over anyone just to check their ATV or trailer or for training a rookie. With that said, have any of you studied the Texas Traffic Code? I promise you, using the code in it's entirety, I would have little trouble pulling just about any person over at any time for a legitimate violation listed within the Traffic Code. I mean, it's chock full of stuff that most people are completely ignorant of. Then add a Game Warden to the mix and he can pull you over just to check you, even if you look like you've been hunting or fishing.

As for the ATV and trailer issue; Gobs of them are stolen annually in this state. It's become an epidemic. Pressure for LE to do more to combat is at an all time high. Trailers are often stolen and re-sold with no paperwork and no title, even when they were titled to begin with. Then the new owner registers an obviously shop built trailer as "Homemade". Now there's more issues to deal with.

Everybody bitches and moans that their stuff gets stolen but then they turn around whine and cry when LE tries to do something about it. I'm not defending all LE. There's plenty of mistakes made by them. There's a right way and wrong way to do things and hopefully they are doing while being mindful of the 4th Amendment. Truth is too many small town cops aren't receiving the training they should have on that topic. Plenty of big city cops too.

That said, if you start out a contact with an adversarial "Us vs. Them" attitude you are likely to get it right back. That's just the way it is in the real world.

He was more than happy to get out and give me his story. I thanked him and apologized for any trouble I might have caused. That was 20 years ago and we're still talking. He's a good friend. Believe it or not, we're human just like everybody else. I love to hunt, fish, drink a beer and spend time with my friends. Out of 23 years as a LEO, I've had one complaint lodged against me which was thrown out because of recordings. Every case I ever had tried has been a conviction. I don't need to cheat, stupid people do stupid things and I try to be there to catch them.

Fair enough but again, if you pull me over and want me to prove I own my ATV just for the mere fact it is in my truck I'm not going to be very pleased about it. What is to say that the next question is, can you prove you own the firearms in your car? It is a slippery slope and while no one likes getting their things stolen, I'm going to take exception to having to prove I own something that I lawfully do. Especially when there is no other reason to be questioning me about it.

Rex,
There's nothing saying that a cop cannot ask you. You don't have to answer some of those questions. You don't have to prove anything unless they have probable cause to prove otherwise. If an officer asks, it's probably just a query and nothing more. It's probably a question that he'll ask often. It doesn't mean that you're being set up and it's not personal. Ask that same question to a someone that's in possession of a stolen ATV and you'll often start getting BS answers that most can see through pretty quickly.
The officer can even ask permission to run the serial number on the ATV. You can also decline.

As a LEO and hunter, I've been pulled over too. I don't get wrapped around the axle about it though. Just LEO's trying to be proactive and catch a turd. Unfortunately, you'll get a few good guys before you finally find a turd. Might surprise you but they don't carry a sign. They look like you and me.

Your license plate reads "No Feds." Your attitude is, "Don't do anything wrong and you won't have an issue?" What am I missing?

You're absolutely right, any LEO is free to ask any question they want. Asking if you own an ATV in the back of your truck is fine, to which the answer should most likely be "yes". At this point the conversation should be over unless there is probable cause to think otherwise. Asking someone to prove they own something implies they don't. If you ask and I tell you I do own it, it is on you to prove I don't, otherwise you are wasting my time and have no right to continue the encounter. I mentioned it earlier but there was a thread going where people were being pulled over for no reason other than they were hauling or pulling a trailer with an ATV on it. Everyone seemed to accept the fact that it was ok to be pulled over simply because they had an ATV with them.

Y'all are some drama queens. He just answered some questions and was sent on his way.

Y'all have no knowledge of why he was pulled over. It seems unusual for GW and trooper to be together.
Maybe they have had complaints in that area.

Just cooperate, and be on your way. everything is not a conspiracy.

Honest question: if they decline, during the type of stop you've described, what's the next step, from your point of view?

Keep it up LP some of us appreciate what you guys do.

Exactly. It's these puffed-up keyboard lawyers who are also the first to bitch and moan when their stuff gets stolen(probably cuz they left their trucked unlocked because they "shouldn't have to lock it") and the "cops don't do anything about it".

It's not just talk with me when I say I support LEO's and Blue Lives Matter. If a cop pulls me over, I certainly don't want to get a ticket - but they are the cop, with a gun, and do a thankless job. I will do whatever they ask me to do with a "Yes Sir". If they want me to take off my skin and dance in my bones - I'll do it! I am not a wimp, and value my rights - but trying exercise them in the field like some cocksure know-it-all is just discourteous and plain stupid. Stopped doing that stuff when I was in my teens/twenties.

If there was something wrong about the encounter, I'll be sure to notify the supervisor and/or my lawyer the next day. That's not being sheeple, it's just being grown up and smart.

Well this is going no where fast, it seems that some people can't comprehend how you can be courteous and supportive of the tough job law enforcement does while still holding them to a high standard. I'm no puffed up anything (except for some love handles) and I don't play a lawyer on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn express last night. I hold up my end of the bargain when I follow the law, and I dang sure expect whomever is enforcing it to do the same. I do not think that all or even most LEO's act in a manner described in some earlier scenario's. These are isolated incidents and everyone is free to act however they feel obliged too. You can comply with every thing no matter what, you can be a jack@$$ and probably get way more tickets than you would otherwise. Then there is the in the middle option of pulling over as expected, being courteous and respectful and answering any questions you feel comfortable with and exercising your rights to remain silent on any you don't wish to answer. I will never consent to a search no matter if I am hiding anything or not. If I find that a LEO has pulled me over expressly to check my ATV or because he see's hunting gear then he and I will have a problem. No I will not cuss him or her on the side of the road, or start a fist fight. Those are silly, stupid, and dangerous. But if this does happen, I will make sure I express my concern with the stop, I will call his/her supervisor immediately, and probably my attorney if it gets that far. I understand LEO's asking about items like this, and if they have a legit reason to stop me, then they can ask away. I may or may not answer depending on my mood, the officers attitude, and the location of the sun and moon (or a million other variables at the time) Police are people too and I understand them doing a tough job. Hell I might have even met and shook hands with Land Pirate as I spend a lot of time in the Buda / Kyle area and see many LEO's while there. I make a point of stopping and talking to everyone I have an opportunity to and shake their hand (situation allowing). I have had several 4 wheelers stolen, and I do b!tch and moan, but not about the police. I am pissed at the lowlifes who cut the logging chain I had securing my trailer to a steel post.

So you go on and dance around in your bones John Humbert if that makes you feel like you have been protected and served. I also value my rights, but I am willing to speak up if someone is trying to violate them.

I was doing 80 MPH in a 60 late at night and was pulled over by a Sheriff if I remember right. He told me there have been a lot of stolen trailers and ATV's in the area and he would like to check my serial #'s. I had a brand new trailer that was delivered in an awful baby blue instead of the dark navy blue I ordered! I didn't want to wait a week or so and make a 2 hour round trip to get another one. So he started looking for the serial # and I didn't have any idea where it was located on the trailer. He finally found it and cleared me. I told him I appreciated what he was doing as I have had another trailer stolen with 2 dirt bikes and all our gear on the way to Colorado for a ride. (a good story for another time). He then said have a good night and didn't mention the 20 MPH over the limit I was going in the dark of night on a tiny country road. I think it worked out ok. I might have been unhappy about being held up if I wasn't speeding. All in all I'm happy they are looking for stolen property that could be mine. I know if he does find stolen property it will not have been stolen by me!

What you just described is called "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree". Any contraband found from an illegal stop is non-admissible in court. I don't know what a speed check is, I stop lots of speeders. I use speeding as Probable Cause for my stop, it's just the starting point. I then check your Drivers License, registration and insurance. I like to talk to people about what ever is st hand. It will usually put people at ease. I take this opportunity to check out the contents of your vehicle and any others inside. I also take a deep sniff of the inside of the vehicle. I find plenty of dope stopping speeders and talking to drivers.

For clarity all this is done while standing at the driver's window.

Pretty sad it took this far into the thread to find common sense. Thank you for nailing it!

Or better yet say, "I speak no English", they would of said be on your way

State Troopers aren't the Federal Government, I hadn't broken any laws other than speeding so why would I worry. Did they offer Civics in class or were you absent that day.

Now if the Federal Government was involved

Sounds like some of our THF'ers often times have something illegal in their vehicle...

If trying to check for ownership of atv's brings only a handful of meth heads and criminals that stole from good people and fellow hunters to justice or at least punishes them a little then I'm ok with it.

I have been nothing but truthful with every cop that has ever pulled me over, ive never had trouble with one, never been arrested and only gotten a very few tickets for the number of times ive been pulled over. Never met a cop in person that pulled me over I didn't think was an alright guy just doing his job. Some of yal are just a little too scared of the govt.

I'd a broke my neck trying to look at that one, if I was a cop I probably would have pulled you over just to chat too.

THIS! Most local cops I'm fine with but Texas State Troopers...that's another story! I've only met one who didn't come across as a jerk! Most act like they have the little man syndrome....there's no doubt they have a tough job in many ways but they don't have to be jerks while they are doing it. And I'm speaking from personal experience.

Really? Ugh...

Really? Ugh... what? You want the cops to protect you but you wont give them the means to do so.

How do you check ownership of an ATV? They aren't required to be registered, or it could be from out of state and no one is going to carry paperwork everytime they transport it. So now what? You can't prove you own something that you legally do. What is going to happen?

"Speed Check" That's laughable.

Aren't atv/utv's titled? Same thing with boat motors, like it says on the parks and wildlife site DO NOT BUY A MOTOR/MOTOR WITHOUT CLEAR TITLE. You shouldn't buy an atv that you cant get clear title to.

Some are, some aren't. Same thing with UTVs. Boats/motors and trailers are required to be registered if they are going to be used on public water, not if they are being used on private lakes. ATV's aren't required to be registered if you are using them on private land (which most of us are), nor is there a requirement to have a title when purchasing. My point is, unless they can prove it is stolen then you should have no obligation to be able to prove it is yours. More importantly (and this is why I posed the question), you shouldn't have to carry documentation that you own something that is riding in the back of your truck. That to me is no different than getting questioned and asking to prove you own the firearms you are in possession of, or your coolers, feeders, etc.

Last weekend the game warden came to our camp like he does about this time every year. He told us about this exact scenario. During the bow season they will ride with DPS, when they pull over a suspected hunter, DPS asks if they had any luck. If you answer "YES" then game warden gets out and gets involved in the conversation. He said it is so easy because all of the hunters want to talk about what they have shot.

On the way to the lease I got pulled over just leaving my neighborhood for speeding (I was trying to make the evening hunt). When he asked where I was going I told him bowhunting. He was a bowhunter also and he kept me on the side of the road, lights flashing, in my neighborhood for 10 minutes talking about bowhunting. Then he told me to keep it under the limit and have a safe hunt!!

Please explain, which ones are and which ones aren't titled?

It would seem if they're financed they'd be titled.

An older one prior to 1985 was not required to be titled in Texas, in Oklahoma they didn't require titles until 2005. I feel like UTVs didn't have to be titled prior to 2009. The title requirement is only that they come with a title when manufactured, after that point there is no registration requirement. I could keep looking at other states but my point is some ATVs weren't titled/won't have a title and more importantly have no obligation to be registered if they are being used on private land.

TPWD touches on a few of these things regarding registration here as well:

http://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/texas-off-highway-program/faqs-about-the-texas-ohv-program



So back to my original question what happens if you can't prove you own an ATV riding in the back of your truck that is rightfully yours?

Maybe one of the LEO's on here can chime in because this is a legitimate question.

They will all be titled now, at least coming from the dealership but that doesn't account for every other one that is in existence that might or might not have a title.

To me that says that every atv in texas after 1985 should have a title.

Maybe it's just because I'm older now, but I no longer get all upset over stuff like this. Dealing with LEO's is just like dealing with anyone else. If you go into the interaction expecting trouble, you're more likely to find trouble. A classic example of self fulfilling prophecy.

When I was younger, if anyone gave me the slightest amount of grief, I was ready to bow up and defend my own pride. It didn't matter who it was, bosses, teachers, cops, friends, even my own father. As a result, I had a lot of ugly confrontations, physical and otherwise. I look back on those days now, and I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

I've now learned the beauty of letting s#!t slide. I'm not saying you should let folks walk all over you, but it's silly to escalate a minor situation like a cop wanting to make sure something isn't stolen by going into the interaction with a bad attitude.

If you are getting verbally or physically abused though, that's a different story.

Got pulled over by DPS one night. Pulling a trailer with my 4 wheeler. Reason for stop, my license plate was to dirty to read. Kinda hard to see with a trailer and 4 wheeler right behind it. After giving me a verbal warning and me telling him I had just left my lease, out pops a GW. First thing they did was find the Vin # on the wheeler and call it in. Didn't need no paper work on the bike. But, I guess if the Vin # came up sayin stolen, then I would have some splainin to do!!

That's why I can't understand your position, rex. It doesn't matter if the ATV has to be registered, titled or not. If an ATV's owner reports the vehicle stolen, it's VIN (serial number) is what will be entered in TCIC/NCIC. And that's what the LEOs will be checking it against. If you're not hauling a stolen vehicle, then don't worry about it. If you are hauling a stolen vehicle, you better be able to prove ownership.

As for the OP, a "speed check" is bs. It would have pizzed me off, but I'm not going to debate it on the side of the road with a guy working traffic. I'm going to be speaking to his supervisor and the county DA after the fact.

Fair enough, they should be able to check the vin. My comments were directed towards "proving ownership" when questioned about it. If it isn't reported stolen then there should be no reason to have to prove ownership, agree? It should be presumed that the person in possession of it is the owner and the encounter should be over at that point. No checking titles, registration, bill of sale etc.

Every think they might just ask you for proof of ownership because its easier than digging through the caked on mud to find a vin.

Agree on proof of ownership, rex.

Honest question though, how many people carry stuff like that? Especially for an ATV?

Its nothing new that cops stop people and ask for it. If I hauled one a lot on major highways I would carry it to avoid a hassle. I walk so no atv and no trouble.

From experience, I cannot imagine any officer asking for proof of ownership unless there was a problem first. Not saying it can't or doesn't happen.

If an officer runs a VIN and gets a stolen hit, rather than assume that the person in possession of the stolen item is a thief, the officer should then ask how that person came to be in possession of the stolen property.

Many times we find that these folks are unwitting victims themselves, having been duped by the original thief.

Gotta love craigslist

Thanks for the lesson, professor. I understand the destinction between the Feds and state troopers. I'm wondering why it matters to *you.*

I was stopped out of New Castle for the same thing. He approached and said "you were accelerating pretty hard out of the 45 MPH to the 65". I asked if I was above the speed limit but he said no, then asked if I had been hunting. I had a lot of red dirt/mud on my truck from a wet weekend and plenty of gear in the truck. I hadnt killed anything so he asked if I knew the game log on the back of the license was to be filled out. Of course I did but he then stated his previous traffic stop went a little long after he contacted the warden about his "perps" who had failed to document correctly on the game log. I then knew why I was stopped. I wasnt upset but it did seem a little shady. I've had ATV's and trailers stolen so more power to them for checking, I'd like to get my crap back.

It don't

Your the one getting Wadded up

Sniper, I'm not at all wadded up. I'm genuinely curious. Re-reading my post from last night, it might have come across as sarcastic or something, but I was just wondering what the difference was.

I haven't gotten a ticket in 15 years, mostly because I don't speed that much (5-8 over max, usually less), but when I get pulled over I do everything in my power to assist the officer. Engine off, well off to the side where he can approach safely on either side, windows down, flashers on, hands on the wheel. Have gotten five warnings but no tickets in the last 8-10 years. If they're cool, I'm cool to them.

Ive been profiled before out late at night driving a honda civic with dark tint. Doesn't bother. Just be polite and truthful and you will be on your way.

None taken Amigo and my apologies for being curt, guess I have never related the two...
Have many Dear Friends who are Troopers and one retired Trooper who I currently Hunt with and Trooper Billy Melton and W.W. Curly Eddleman (who are now passed away) Billy and I worked in the York Rite and Scottish Rite together for many Years and a Absolute Prince of a Human Being.

I see peoples concern over Profiling, but Officers are constantly profiling...It's part of the Job. I think you will see more and more "Tandom" stops in the future, in my instance I am certain I was stopped due to me speeding and of course it was convenient with a trailer and a Ranger and several Coolers that the Warden wanted to investigate. No Sweat...Don't be a Outlaw and you won't be treated as a Outlaw. I have never had a bad experience with a Warden, I had one that tried to trick me up on asking how many Deer I had shot on a licenses check on the water once, and my response was...How many Tags are missing.. He smiled and said you would be shocked how many times that works and I responded with No Doubt He asked can I see your Pictures on your phone and I said No Sir you may not and he smiled and I said let me guess..I would be surprised how many times that worked As mentioned earlier I carry full coverage on my Ranger and have a Insurance Card with all of my Units info on it, I encourage them to ask and inquire for the simple fact if my unit was stolen then IMHO that would be a resourceful tool in a recovery. But to each his own, and now if we were discussing a "Federal" Officer then they can pound sand.
Never Trust the Federal Government or a Judge...Under any circumstances.

You should have been Pistol Whipped for driving a Civic Sap

hey I was like 19-20 I hadn't seen the light yet

An older one prior to 1985 was not required to be titled in Texas, in Oklahoma they didn't require titles until 2005. I feel like UTVs didn't have to be titled prior to 2009. The title requirement is only that they come with a title when manufactured, after that point there is no registration requirement. I could keep looking at other states but my point is some ATVs weren't titled/won't have a title and more importantly have no obligation to be registered if they are being used on private land.

TPWD touches on a few of these things regarding registration here as well:

http://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/texas-off-highway-program/faqs-about-the-texas-ohv-program



So back to my original question what happens if you can't prove you own an ATV riding in the back of your truck that is rightfully yours?

Maybe one of the LEO's on here can chime in because this is a legitimate question. [/quote]

As long as there are no other issues such as destroyed/missing VIN and it doesn't have a stolen hit, nothing else should happen other than you being released with your property. Some officers may snap a couple of photos of them just in case they get a delayed hit the next day, but there would be no reason to seize them.

It's a long video, but worth the watch.

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

Works for me. Thanks!

I know this question has come up a couple of times so let me give you an scenario that has happened. We went into our shift briefing at 1730. Briefings include incidents of interest that has occurred since the last time we were at work. BOLO's and the such. Bell County SO had asked our PD to be on the lookout for some stolen ATV's as some farmers on the east side of the county had had theirs stolen along with other equipment. So, we hit the streets. While working in my district a couple of hours later, I stop a truck pulling a trailer with a green Yamaha Grizzly 450, one of the ATV's that was stolen. The trailer had a taillight that was out so I stopped him. After I ID'd the guy, I asked him if that was his ATV. He assured me it was. I told him I was going to run the vin and why I was doing so. It came back clear, I thanked him for his cooperation, and I gave him a warning. A few hours later, my co-worker stopped a P/U for no LP light that was hauling an ATV. It also was the brand that was stolen. I wasn't far off so I backed him up on the stop. He explained to the guys (2) he stopped why he stopped them and while they were detained he wanted to check the vin on the ATV. He checked and it came back stolen. We placed the driver in custody and after a pat down of the passenger, the gun he was concealing was stolen also. This one traffic stop by an observant officer cleared several open cases of stolen farm equipment, most of which had been sent to Mexico already. Guys, sometimes a little cooperation is all we want or need. The farmers who did get their equipment back were more than happy, not to mention the gun owner. He had that pistol stolen out of a deer camp in south Texas 10 years earlier.

"So back to my original question what happens if you can't prove you own an ATV riding in the back of your truck that is rightfully yours?

Maybe one of the LEO's on here can chime in because this is a legitimate question. [/quote]

As long as there are no other issues such as destroyed/missing VIN and it doesn't have a stolen hit, nothing else should happen other than you being released with your property. Some officers may snap a couple of photos of them just in case they get a delayed hit the next day, but there would be no reason to seize them. [/quote]

Grizz,
The answer is nothing. The only point at which you might be required to produce proof of purchase or bill of sale would be after an officer ran the VIN and received a stolen hit confirmation. At this point an officer should attempt to determine if you stole it or came into possession through illegal means, or were you an innocent and unwitting victim of buying a stolen machine. Otherwise, there is no legal requirement for you to produce a proof of ownership.

That's true but if you operate an ATV on public land you are required to register it with the state. When I hunt in NM, the state requires you to register your ATV with NMF&G or with your home state. I suppose that would be one way to verify ownership. You get a sticker to put on your machine.

I find the TPWD department to be borderline corrupt, I have followed the SAL program and how the director retires and get his private pond stocked with SAL.

Then last year we had the game warden accidently get shot while illegally bowhunting. He committed a felony but was allowed to keep his job. The worst part is from what I have read they were aware of him doing illegal activities but allowed fundraisers and gofundme accounts under the false pretense that he was the innocent victim.

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/wounded-texas-game-warden-admits-breaking-law-but-/nmrnM/

I have to pose the question... if the OP had said that a GW had pulled him over and done the same thing and had a DPS trooper in his passenger seat, would this have still been an issue?

GW has the right to check you if you have been hunting. Having an ATV in the back of your truck makes it reasonable to suspect that the operator might have been hunting.

The fact that the trooper did the stop with little probable cause is questionable, but I'll bet if something came up in trial, the GW could say, "I told him to pull the guy over to check him."

It is dancing around the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine as mentioned above, but you're gonna have to go to court ALOT to get it sorted out in the end.


On a side note: I did not hear that they had ended the Public Use registration for ATVs.

Give them the means? Really? You mean probable cause? Yep....They NEED PROBABLE CAUSE! And that's not what we are talking about here! They pull people over for imaginary reasons and then go on a fishing expedition! And are jerks while doing so...there's a reason why a lot of people are distrustful of them...they have created a lot of this with how they go about their jobs and the attitude they have while doing it.

I wonder how many in this thread would be happy if the police recovered their stolen ATV and would not be challenging the officer about why he made the stop?

This is BS...and it's what I'm talking about...not breaking any laws and they pull you over for BS reasons. And then the cop screws with a guy because he simply forgot to fill out the game log...obviously he had tagged it because if he hadn't then he would have mentioned it...instead of reminding them and asking them to go ahead and fill it out he has to call the game warden ect. The guys simply forgot to fill out the log....to me the cop was being a JERK! Now if the guy hadn't tagged the animal fine but the game log is relatively new and in the excitement the guy forgot! Geez! Like I said earlier....these guys are bringing the publics distrust for them onto themselves!

Come on MAN! Yes, I would still be challenging them! So let me get this straight....it's ok for them to walk all over my rights guaranteed by the constitution in order to "maybe" find your atv? And how many people have to have their constitutional rights trampled on in order to satisfy you? That's part of the problem we are dealing with nowadays...since 9/11...they infringe a little here, they infringe a little there because hey we are scared and having our fears satisfied is more important than our rights!, and before long we wake up living in a police state. People need to wake up...

You better go buy another 10,000 rounds of 22 ammo and hide in your basement because we're coming for you. BOO!

Some of you guy's should drive 18 Wheeler's if you think you are getting harassed by the law. I've spent the last 34 years getting harassed by them on nearly a daily basis.
I can't count the number of times I've gotten warning tickets just because I show the officer's a little respect and courtesy.
Any city-county-state-or federal DOT officer can stop me for anything,any time they want,just because I drive a commercial vehicle.

Most are just doing the job they hired on for,not trying to profile you.

You don't have to answer any questions they ask if it doesn't pertain to why they stopped you,if that's the way you feel about it. But,they can detain your travel for a long time if you act like a jerk towards them.

I spent a number of years as an LEO and as far as i am concerned, the public distrust is quite justified! The LEO community is the biggest "gang" in the country imposing their will on unsuspecting "victims" all while being some of the biggest hypocrites on the face of the earth! Dont get me wrong, i still have some dear friends who are LEO and they are stellar human beings just doing a job, but there are at LEAST 50% in the field that have no business whatsoever having the authority and responsibility that they do! If i were pulled over for a "speed check" i would be PIZZED and so would any current LEO if the contact didnt go their way.
Case in point: i was pulled over a couple weeks ago for no lights or plate on my farm trailer. When he asked if i knew why i was pulled over i honestly had no idea but when he told me i was fine with it and intended to take my citations and move on. He then asked me to "prove" the trailer was mine. I "advised" him that trailers were not required to be titled in texas. He then stated if i couldnt prove the trailer was mine it was going to be impounded and i was going to be "detained", meaning arrested! I told him that he couldnt do that and spouted off some of the penal code as i remember it. He stated it was a new "mandate"(meaning a mandatory confiscation and arrest when not proving ownership which i still believe was a lie) and asked me how i knew those penal codes. His response after i told him i was former LEO........"let me turn off my camera and mic"!
SCUM, plain and simple
If you choose to allow the rampant deterioration of your rights to continue, there will soon be none left to defend.

ChuckW, either you or he is mistaken. If you're trailer is registered incorrectly then it could possibly be impounded. A shop built trailer, registered as homemade would be one such example. And trailers with a GVWR over 4000 lbs are in fact titled.

Bottom line, the days of registering your trailer any way you like are over. The days of switching one plate between all your trailers are over.

As to the claim that half of officers are somehow crooked is a tall claim. Makes me wonder why you're not in LE anymore. Sounds of sour grapes. But that's none of my business, and I don't really care to hear any explanations.

LP....

Looks like a great target audience on this thread for my tin foil hat special I have going in the classifieds section. $19.95 and free shipping...PM now limited quantities.

This guy was fired for sure. Couldn't cut it.

Too many reasons to distrust LEOs. A badge can change a person. Many have forgotten that they work for us, and have chosen to be above us.
I have many friends and close family that are officers with local police, federal, DPS, military, etc. They all do not trust other officers and advise me to do the same. The encourage me to not give an officer cause or there will heck to pay, even if you are innocent.
I personally have been abused by an officer, it isn't a pleasant experience. And there isn't a dang thing that you can do about it.
So if you are supposed to trust LEOs; then I choose to trust the ones that tell me not to trust them.

Can you show me that law?

I own four trailers, three have a GVWR above 4000 lbs, and not a one has a title.

http://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/trailers

Go to Title Manual on the right then start at section 5.5 in that pdf.


Over 4,500 also now need inspections.

The department i left would take me back in a HEARTBEAT. I realized that i would never "make a difference" like so many set out to do. I also realized i would never make the amount of money i wanted to. Kind of like cowboying when i was younger. Also, you are an idiot.

Just as I figured you were run off...your attitude wouldn't last long.

Jeez, that was uncalled for.

The trailer confiscation deal is real. There's a statute that makes it dang near impossible to get one back - even if you later produce title and show no violations. First thing statute requires is that you file a legal writ to get it back with the precinct where it was impounded within 24 hours.

99.9% are gone at that point if they want to keep it. Bunch of other hurdles if you make that one. It's legal theft, plain and simple. Years back several smaller counties were abusing it to the max, keeping some, selling the rest.

I don't hear near as much about it now, but you are at their mercy.

My SWAG at percentage ratio on officers who are stellar public servants vs. taking up space vs. obnoxious power-tripping goons is 20/60/20.

Before you LEOs get ticked IMO teachers/coaches/school administrators is roughly the same - and my wife is a teacher.

My profession about the same. I suspect most are.

"Speed check" is a euphemism for "I don't have probable cause but I'm going to jack with you a while and see if you are doing anything wrong. If you are and it's big enough I'll make up some PC later."

How do y'all live a normal life with all these feelings of law enforcement and how you will be mistreated. I get stopped maybe once a year, and have never been mistreated. Only y'all and Obama have been mistreated, and the BLM guys.

It was a simple stop, now we are to half are corrupt. Come on.

Also, they way I understand it all that is needed to stop a car is reasonable suspicion. Probable cause is for arrests.

I was referring to a search.

Thank you.

They sure have made things difficult.

Man alive...these threads make me

The sense of entitlement runs strong in this group. I think the fact that someone has a badge is what makes some of you mad more so than anything that they have actually done.

Reminds of me of those youtube videos of "Steve"...."I KNOW MY RIGHTS"

A few people in this thread have talked about it being the officers fault that there is mistrust. I blame it on a lot of things, including someones raising, and rarely is the officer the one that gets the blame. Most are just out to do their job and they run across some Google expert that "knows his right" and spews out some code he thinks he read somewhere.

There is no doubt there are some terrible officers and some jaded officers. Same in any profession. Guess we shouldn't trust anyone in this world because there isn't a profession that doesn't have bad apples.

As a side note, I have had more than my share of encounters. Some good, some bad and I can assure you that I have been profiled before. Long story short, white kid, big truck, south oak cliff, 4:45am, meets a black officer...Only reason I was pulled over was because of the color of my skin. Didn't bother me for a second and sure didn't get mad at the officer.

Carry on smh

Had to have the Icing on the Cake pop in

Place gets stupider and stupider everyday

Please explain how a "speed check" is a normal stop? Its a matter of fact that this was a case of "profiling" and it will become all too common. I CAINT WAIT until it happens to you!

First off your taking the poster's word for the stop. Thats your first problem.

Secondly, i dont know what a spped check is, maybe that shouod be cleared up before the post. Maybe its just bs, for there is a bunch of poaching in the area.

Third, cant wait for it to happen to me? What a stop where im let go. It happens all the time. Im ok with it, im ok with airport stops, im ok with stop n frisk. Im ok with DL/insurance checkpoints.

Chuck, thats your opinion and thats ok. i See it different....

fwiw.....Texas GW's have federal commissions. Technically, they are a federal LEO

I have read through all of this ???????
basicly i want laws but i want every LEO to know i am not the one he is looking for.
do not call a LEO next time you need one, if you feel like he should only do what it takes to serve and protect when you want him to.

Really?

Why will they not question Illegal Aliens about their presence in the USA? Why don't they ask for greencards? Why don't they ask for work permits.

Police are not allowed to ask for these thing, from what I have been told. I have had police tell me they don't enforce Federal law only state law.

RedRanger, remember when the guvna sent DPS and GW to the border to enforce immigration laws?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/us/tex...order.html?_r=0

I've got lots of friends that are LEO's, they're very good people, and just regular guys when off the job. Of course I've been stopped, it's even happened a few times this year. On their approach they're all guarded, and I know why, I make sure they can see my hands the whole time. In America they're filmed, blamed, shot, hit by cars, you name it. They have to be guarded to survive. I can see their posture relax after they visit with me for thirty seconds. Had a PD officer apologize for pulling me over early one Sunday morning, when I got off shift. I said, well I was speeding, you're just doing your job. Had he written me a ticket, I would have signed and paid it.

I'd say the majority of them are just out to do their job, and a small percentage give them a bad reputation. There's plenty of guys on my department that suck at their job, and we all know who they are. Trouble is, the public doesn't, and they may formulate an opinion on the entire service based on one guy that ain't all that great.

If you want to change the status quo, I'd suggest you present those questions to your state legislator, congressman, and POTUS.

Some of these comments remind me of the guys that took over the snack bar in Oregon.

I guess I'll be the first one to say it. I support profiling. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, its probably a dang duck.

Maybe the reason why so many of us have good experiences with the popo is due to profiling as well, a profile they feel they have nothing to worry about.

No matter what you think about it, profiling works.

Yes, I believe they were there to protect the border. They are not allowed to question them, or ask them immigration status.

I have taken it up with my Sam Johnson, but it appears as if the culture in America regarding Illegals. If for everyone to put their head in sand and not face the issue or the topic

Yes it does, no doubt...

I have traveled for work more than I ever have in the last year. I can tell ya TSA is NOT afraid to profile passengers. 90% of the time when I'm going through security and they are giving someone the full search, the passenger is Middle Eastern. There is a reason.

My point with all this was just to see if this "speed check" was common fishing practice. And if so, is it technically legal? Maybe my brain just remembers it wrong, but I thought there needed to be a reason to pull you over other than having a dusty truck on a small country highway during bow season. I did not have an ATV or trailer and I have a tonneau cover on my bed so there is no way he could see anything as I went by... at or below the speed limit.

I always comply with LEO. If you get all uppity, best case scenario is that you annoy LEO so they take their sweet time combing through what they can. I'm more of a fan of getting back on down the road and making their thankless jobs a little easier. Of course there are boundaries, but I don't think they were crossed and I never have had an encounter where I thought they were.

I've been in LE for 27 years. I don't know what a "Speed Check" is. Either you stop or a speeder or not. If he was speeding then there's a violation and legal reason for the stop. Plain and simple.

Some on here are going on about how p.o'd they'd be about being stopped for a "Speed Check". I'd suggest then, don't speed.

Now, along the same lines. Several years back the US. Supreme Court ruled that the "Pretext Stop" is legal. That's where a cop stops someone for one reason, but is actually looking for something else. Like pulling over a car for a burned out tail lamp in a high crime area late at night, but really looking for evidence of drugs or some other crime.

Example: I see a car pull away from a known drug house. He rolls a stop sign instead of making a complete stop. I pull him over for the stop sign violation, but I really don't care about that. I want to find out what he was doing at the known drug dealer's house. Maybe I'll find out, maybe I won't. But you don't know until you try.

Same could be true for this so called "Speed Check". Maybe they clocked you running 3 over the posted speed limit, but they saw you hauling a UTV. Knowing the prevalence in which UTV's are stolen, they use the chicken poop 3 mph speed violation to make the stop and then check the UTV, because that's what they're really trying to get.

As for Game Wardens and Troopers riding together...It doesn't matter who's behind the wheel or who makes the stop. Both are state peace officers. One has certain enforcement authority where the other does not. But because they're together, either can conduct the stop and assist in the enforcement action of the other.

I dunno, bunch of y'all are way too schizophrenic and paranoid for my liking. Most of my friends and associates when I'm off duty are not LE. I've never seen such paranoia in any of them. Probably because they're really decent people and know that they have nothing to fear from LE.

Never been stopped to look at a 4wheeler, trailer or in a cooler. Had a state trooper check my car trailer vin several years in a row at Pate swap meet at the motor speedway. always asked if it was mine and asked if he could look at the Vin. If it helps slow down the stolen trailer market, im ok with it.

aerangis beat me to it:

aerangis
Tracker

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 605
Loc: Nunya
Originally Posted By: SniperRAB

Now if the Federal Government was involved


fwiw.....Texas GW's have federal commissions. Technically, they are a federal LEO


Grasshopper Sniper:

Game wardens and agents of TECQ are in fact responsible for enforcing federal law. Which effectively makes them federal officers although they are coordinated under state agencies.

Cracks me up that folks think if you aren't trying to break a law then you have nothing to worry about with an LEO.

Again, I had a hunter given a citation because I pre-signed an MLD tag (a perfectly legal and common practice). I had a Baptist preacher cited for failure to recover a game animal for not going into a cactus patch after a javelina after dark after he'd emptied his weapon trying to kill it. In both cases the GW had come in at dinner time and instead of being the good ol boy and sharing dinner, he made them pay for thinking he was their friend.

Yeah, nothing to fear from LE. What about GW's giving your hunters citations for perfectly legal and accepted practices? Pre-signed MLD tags for instance. I own 3 MLD ranches. There is no way I or my assigns can be at all three ranches every time hunters are hunting.

But a nimrod GW gave one of my hunters a citation for me pre-signing an MLD tag.

If you can get a citation for it then I would assume it is against the law no?

You would think so. But you're totally wrong. Cited the guy and the guy paid before I got involved. GW got a good azz eating and apologized to me later. But an LEO can in fact cite you for any BS reason he/she wants. It's up to you to challenge it.

The whiner crybaby tin foil conspiracy corruption factor in this thread is through the roof.

.......Your denial is through the roof! I have been on both sides of law enforcement and know EXACTLY what goes on. A cop of 27yrs just admitted to a common practice among cops of harassing people for being in the wrong place for "chicken [censored]" reasons. I have seen used, and used those same reasons for years! A "speed check" is an unlawful reason to detain someone. If they were 3mph over the speed limit, that is technically "speeding" and probable cause for a stop. Its total BS and they had better set a prededent of that practice before hand or a good attorney could argue any other evidence found during the stop. That same hypothetical hypocrite probably ran 10mph over the speed limit on his way to work and "rolled" a few stop signs while not wearing his seat belt 100% of the time but has no qualms harassing you for those very reasons. They ARE NOT your friends and they are very rarely able to help someone who really needs it. Their main function is DOCUMENTATION of an incidenet after the fact!

Wow!

Last encounter I had with then was at 0200 this morning. Was sure glad there was ten of them there, given the crowd that was around us. They may not be your friends, but they sure are mine.

Some of you guys should get together with Colin Kapernick and write a book "How to get attention"

It'd be a best seller