This ^^^^ Basically what I said at the beginning of all this...

some people think that having police walking around with ARs and tactical gear is not the right decision. That it creates an more adversarial force as opposed to helping force.

There is also an argument that to continue have certain equipment, it has to be justified, therefor the scope of when it gets used is expanded beyond the original intent.

For you and what you want in a carbine....

For me and what I want.....I own a Wilson. And I enjoyed shooting it out to 1000 yards last weekend and killing pigs with it any any distance. I get a kick out of shooting it long range, so it's worth the extra coin for me.

Agree but on most occasions the AR is stored inside the vehicle and only used for certain circumstances. I don't think I've ever see a police officer just walking around with an AR.

And I made that point basically also. I own a Wilson and love it. So does my SWAT friend and SF friends...but it is used for hunting. I think high end AR's may be an overpriced, ego buy for how they get used for day to day LEO purposes depending on what your specific role is. As I said, I don't believe my SWAT friend has had to fire his in "anger".

I think you are right. They would be better off with a shorter barrel reliable platform like SapperTitan just built for his second 6.8. He shot it out to 500 yards easy with a vortex 1-4. I think he told me he had about 1800 total cost in it with the glass.

You know I have two Tikkas. [/quote]
I'm thinking Ruger. [/quote]

The Feds just started going to Rugers a few months ago. Maybe Ruger has stepped up their game.

Richard????does He go by Dicck???

Yep right at about 1800 and was pleasantly surprised how versatile it was with that 1-4. With the right conditions I'm positive i could get it out to 800

Cops don't need AR's just like civilians don't need AR's. It's just to make your ego feel better about being so ignorant.

And the word is "maybe" not MABE

How accurate are you at 60-80 yards with a pistol? I'd rather take that shot with a rifle

Keep trolling

^^^ clueless

I think the average guy on patrol needs a minimalist light weight 10.5" AR. Would be nice to have that department wide and suppressed. That way there is no doubt who is who when the hits the fan.

I agree with the 10.5 inch AR, but not the suppressor. Because when the SHTF your adrenaline will be kicking and chances are you wont even here the shots, but you will want the other guys on your team to here them. That's a big reason as to why operators only run 1 ear plug

I've never worn ear plugs while on a foot patrol and barely remember hearing the shots me and my team were shooting. Adrenaline is a wonderful thing. Your brain puts all the focus on what it is using which is mostly hands and eyes I guess the brain feels hearing isn't as important in a life and death situation.

Yeah, this sounds like a bunch of gun counter bs.

I'd advocate for suppressed guns for patrol officers for one reason- it protects their hearing. You guys are correct that your brain automatically ignores stimuli that don't contribute to decision making in a life or death scenario (in this situation, it's called auditory exclusion), but you're missing the point that you're still going to have hearing damage. I remember the first time I shot a deer- I was so excited that I didn't even hear the shot, but once the adrenaline wore off, I realized that my ears were ringing like crazy. The same thing will happen to our officers, and there's no reason not to give them what is basically a safety device.

And wanting other guys on your team to hear the shots? LOL, if they can't hear a suppressed 10.5" AR fire, they're not close enough to do anything to help anyway.

Yeah, the operators would not want to be running around being able to communicate while engaging a target, nor protecting their hearing......Just because you don't hear it does not mean it is not damaging your hearing......Also, "the other guys on your team" will be able to hear you engaging in combat. "That's a big reason as to why operators only run 1 ear plug" <<<<<< With running a suppressor you should not have to wear any plugs so all the more reason to use suppressed over unsuppressed while engaging a target. Also CQB can be executed all the while hearing your squad over your ear piece while engaging a target.

Let me better state what I meant, earplug was used in correctly, I meant ear piece. We have a system that is turned on, nobody has to key up a mic to talk, it's just an open line between everybody using that equipment. The ear piece picks up the auditory sound when you speak, so you don't have to speak into a mic, extremely useful because you can still use it with your gas mask.

Secondly, don't you think the other people on your team are going to be just as amped up as you? Do you think that they will hear the sound of a suppressed rifle as easily as they will hear the sound of one that isn't? Until you have been in that situation where you are making entry, you have no idea what it is like to violently enter some bodies house unwanted and unexpected, to have them jump and run from the couch to the back of the house, and you have to follow them passing up open doors and other threats. Everything becomes a blur in an instant and all your senses become impaired. Snapper knows what this is like prob better than most on this forum

Same reason night sights are pretty much pointless

Haha yeah, 2 of the easiest things to sell to rookies is night sights and concealed carry/backup holsters

Explain this one please sir.

Explain what? They are like little "Tackleberrys" when they are in the academy

I guess I don't understand. Thought you were saying backup isn't needed. Just wanted to get your thoughts on it.

Yeah I think a back up is a good idea. But be honest about what you need and will carry. I see guys buying a second P226 because they can use the mags they already have. You ever tried to put another full size pistol on you where you can get to it? Also, think about how you will carry it and make it accessible with your off hand. I personally carry one on the outside of my left leg. Most people carry ankle holsters on the inside of the ankle, but I found it easier to access on the outside even if I'm on the ground on my back.

I have an outer vest carrier so have to go ankle. No where else to put it.
Full size pistol is glock 22. Need to see if 27 is too big for ankle or not. If not, I can use full size mags on it. If so, I'll probably go glock 43.