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#6264315 - 04/17/16 06:36 PM Brass annealer
Cattleman Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 02/09/13
Posts: 678
Loc: Palo Pinto county
What is the most effective low cost brass annealer ?

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#6264343 - 04/17/16 07:03 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
GLC Online   content


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 4113
Loc: Burleson Texas
Small propane tank with a solder tip and a cordless drill. At least it is the low cost side you are looking for unless you are doing a bunch of it.
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#6264377 - 04/17/16 07:31 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
hovercat Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/30/14
Posts: 429
Loc: Pantego, TX
From an NRA article.
Get a shallow pan as big around as you can turn easily in one hand. Fill it with water 1/2 way up the case. Place a case in the center and heat with a propane torch rotating the pan (and case) constantly until it barely shows red, this is easier in a semi-dark room. Immediately tip the case over into the water.


Edited by hovercat (04/17/16 07:32 PM)

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#6264452 - 04/17/16 08:28 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20285
Loc: Texas
That works, just be careful not to over heat and have done the water pan before but I get better results with a torch, drill with socket a litter larger in diameter than the brass and a bucket of water. Video using those tools



Pretty good read on Annealing Link
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#6265237 - 04/18/16 11:31 AM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
cullbuck Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 141

Does anyone know what type and temperature of heat indicating paste are they referring to in the video?

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#6265259 - 04/18/16 11:42 AM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
Mickey Moose Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 02/05/12
Posts: 2559
From http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html...

Originally Posted By:
Optimal Case Temperatures for Successful Annealing

Brass is an excellent conductor of heat. A flame applied at any point on a case for a short time will cause the rest of the case to heat very quickly. There are several temperatures at which brass is affected. Also, the time the brass remains at a given temperature will have an effect. Brass which has been "work hardened" (sometimes referred to as "cold worked") is unaffected by temperatures (Fahrenheit) up to 482 degrees (F) regardless of the time it is left at this temperature. At about 495 degrees (F) some changes in grain structure begins to occur, although the brass remains about as hard as before--it would take a laboratory analysis to see the changes that take place at this temperature.

The trick is to heat the neck just to the point where the grain structure becomes sufficiently large enough to give the case a springy property, leaving the body changed but little, and the head of the case virtually unchanged.

If cases are heated to about 600 degrees (F) for one hour, they will be thoroughly annealed--head and body included. That is, they will be ruined. (For a temperature comparison, pure lead melts at 621.3 degrees F).

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:

1. Due to conduction, the amount of heat necessary to sufficiently anneal the case neck is great enough to ruin the rest of the case.

2. If the case necks are exposed to heat for a sufficient period of time, a lower temperature can be used.

3. The longer the case necks are exposed to heat, the greater the possibility that too much heat will be conducted into the body and head, thereby ruining the cases.

4. The higher the temperature, the less time the case necks will be exposed to heat, and there will be insufficient time for heat to be conducted into the body and head.

You can see that there are a couple of Catch-22s involved in this annealing business. On the one hand, the brass conducts heat quite rapidly, and a fairly high temperature with sufficient time must be attained to do the job. On the other hand, too much time cancels the effect, and we will be left with a case that is too soft and not suitable for anything but scrap. Obviously, there must be a solution; otherwise, not even the cartridge manufacturers could do it right.


The Hornady annealing kit (http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manu...nstructions.pdf) includes paste which reportedly melts at 475; the recommendation is to apply it down to a quarter of the case body. Based on the info in the 6mmbr link the Hornady temp seems low.

https://www.google.com/#q=tempilaq
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#6265283 - 04/18/16 12:01 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
Judd Online   content


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10748
Loc: Sachse, TX
Don't waste your money.

Turn all the lights off in your reloading room and put the flame to the neck/shoulder junction (I like having on the outside blue flame not the intense inside flame) and spin it with a drill. Once the tip of the neck starts to turn red/glow get it out of the flame. This has always been the time the Templaiq (sp?) and that stuff only has a 6 month shelf life...in addition to it being a PIA to deal with. Also, no need for water...let it cool at room temp. I dump mine in a cookie sheet/pan.

I started that way and I am convinced it helps preserve my brass and I get more consistent neck tension...so I bought a BenchSource annealer. If you're going that route (which is not cheap) you get either the BenchSource or Giruad annealers, they are the two best.
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#6265288 - 04/18/16 12:05 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20285
Loc: Texas
From what I have found 750 degrees for a couple seconds, cool and done. Brass starts the orange glow at about 900 degrees and will make it softer than wanted. I have "annealed" to a very dim glow in the past but that was years ago and was done as described in a Speer reloading manual.
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#6265294 - 04/18/16 12:08 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
cullbuck Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 141

Thanks for the additional info.
Have you tried this stuff?

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#6265485 - 04/18/16 02:21 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
Dien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 389
Loc: Grand Prairie
Everyone's different....

I don't use paste. I light up the cases to the point right before the flame changes color.

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#6265493 - 04/18/16 02:24 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9398
Loc: Lewisville, TX
If I'm not using a buddies Giraurd annealer, I do it with the propane torch. 6 to 6.5 seconds is all you need on a spinning piece of brass. Get the brass to where is just begins to turn orange, and that's it. If it gets red, that's too hot, and the brass will be too soft.
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#6265520 - 04/18/16 02:38 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
JTPinTX Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 182
Loc: TX Panhandle
I have one friend with the Giraurd, and one with a Benchsource. The Giraurd is kind of case specific, and so you need different insert thingy for different cartridges, and so forth. But you can load up a whole batch of cases in it and walk away. The Benchsource machine to me is much more adaptable, it can do pretty much anything with what comes with it. But, you have to sit and feed cases into it. I think as far as quality of the annealing job there is no difference between the two. It comes down to which machine fits your needs. Both are pretty comparable on price as well.

For my needs and what I do, I imagine I will end up getting a Benchsource next year. IMO having annealing done, and done precisely, is well worth the cost whichever machine you choose.

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#6265530 - 04/18/16 02:42 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
Cast Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 14901
Loc: North Texas - God's Country
Giraud is adding an induction annealer to its line soon. That's the one I want.
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#6265612 - 04/18/16 03:50 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
Judd Online   content


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10748
Loc: Sachse, TX
Red/orange...you get the point, if it wasn't dark in the room I wouldn't see it turn and it's far from 900 degrees...I've used Templaq and it's ~750. grin

FWIW...mine's 4-4.5 seconds on most cases using the dual flames and the machine turning the case.
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#6265662 - 04/18/16 04:15 PM Re: Brass annealer [Re: Cattleman]
Big A Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 2987
Loc: DFW

I found plans for a DYI online and put one together about 3 weeks ago best thing I ever did it is no benchsource or Giraud but load it up and let it go. I think I have about 100-125 in to it.
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