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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250657
04/07/16 04:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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I can't believe there is not a shooting proficiency level that must be attained to get a CHL.
When I got my CHL in Arkansas about 15 years ago you had to pass a shooting test with your own gun...seems like that is very reasonable considering you could potentially have someone drawing and firing in a criminal situation. I think they should have a certain level of precision when firing!
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250669
04/07/16 04:31 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 148
corkys son
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 148 |
Let's think about this, do you really want the government coming in this saying you need to shoot at a certain level. Heaven forbid it, but lets just say hillary clinton gets into office. Number one, it wouldn't be possible to pass the test; ten rounds freehand from a 38 snub nose at 200 yards in a one inch bull. Number two, the cost would be so high for renewal you couldn't afford it. You don't want to start making it easier for the gun control freeks to limit us. Yes, there are clowns that probably shouldn't ever have a gun in their hand, but there's also people out there that shouldn't be allowed to breed.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: J.G.]
#6250680
04/07/16 05:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,101
Colt W. Knight
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The Constitution says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed and doesn't say anything about, unless you don't pass a test.
And was written when people knew how to do things with their hands. Now days people don't know how anything works. It shows up every day with crap drivers. And they are handling that deadly weapon every day. Then we show up...after having maneuvered around more crap drivers, holding a cell phone, and missing the 12' tall fire truck with flashing lights and sirens behind them. If there is going to be a license then there should be a proficiency test. Don't want a test? Get rid of the license, and let every non-felon carry as they please. That is a silly argument, and states like Arizona and West Virginia do allow conceal and open carry without a permit.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250714
04/07/16 10:50 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,533
RiverRider
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I think it's more of a cultural issue than anything.
JG, I'm sure you really don't believe that criminals refrain from carrying because we don't "permit" it!
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: J.G.]
#6250726
04/07/16 11:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,306
Marc K
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The Constitution says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed and doesn't say anything about, unless you don't pass a test.
And was written when people knew how to do things with their hands. Now days people don't know how anything works. It shows up every day with crap drivers. And they are handling that deadly weapon every day. Then we show up...after having maneuvered around more crap drivers, holding a cell phone, and missing the 12' tall fire truck with flashing lights and sirens behind them. If there is going to be a license then there should be a proficiency test. Don't want a test? Get rid of the license, and let every non-felon carry as they please. The highlighted part is very true and important. It applies to everything from guns, to driving to voting to finances, to.......... It is a societal problem, which cannot be solved with social engineering and laws enacted by the government. Marc
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250794
04/07/16 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,697
Pitchfork Predator
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I think this is a problem that needs to be addressed.
But not by creating a law to do it.
You could certainly require the instruction classes to tighten up the requirements and the safety aspect of the classes. Have a requirement that is a single person stage or stages that must be passed before any type of group shooting takes place.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: DocHorton]
#6250861
04/07/16 01:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,743
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I can't believe there is not a shooting proficiency level that must be attained to get a CHL. There is, it's just an extraordinarily low bar, and I bet many of the instructors fudge the numbers to get people to pass.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250903
04/07/16 02:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 390
okierifleman
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 390 |
Tighten up the shooting qualifications, period. If you don't pass, you get no CHL until you become proficient enough to pass. Stevie Wonder could pass the test as it is now. Remember, those people you guys are referring to that shoot that bad are carrying loaded weapons on their person...
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250922
04/07/16 02:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,533
RiverRider
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And so it must be. Othetwise we are discriminating against the visually impaired.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250944
04/07/16 02:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,630
Cast
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All us seniors knew how to drive waay before we ever took Driver's Ed. (Yeah we all took Driver's Ed). We also knew how to shoot straight and safe waay before we learned to drive.
You just can't help any millennialist, they know much more than you do. Got that straight from a 25yo idiot boy child just the other day.
Cast I have a short attention spa
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250947
04/07/16 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,415
Dave Davidson
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I think everyone ought to be proficient if they own a firearm. But, who determines the level of proficiency? Some level of government? What level of government and what level of proficiency?
I can no longer claim to be a 10 ring shooter. I used to be but no longer and I used to carry one in the military. Should I be denied the right to self protection? How many of you/us will be denied based on some level of proficiency.
Further, while proficiency is important, judgement and safety are much more important. How do we or THEY determine the individuals level of judgement? At what age can we assume good judgement regarding firearms? Is age even important?
Ask Hillary. I expect she has the answers about our individual rights regarding the 2nd Amendment.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#6250960
04/07/16 02:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,743
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I think everyone ought to be proficient if they own a firearm. But, who determines the level of proficiency? Some level of government? What level of government and what level of proficiency?
I can no longer claim to be a 10 ring shooter. I used to be but no longer and I used to carry one in the military. Should I be denied the right to self protection? How many of you/us will be denied based on some level of proficiency.
Further, while proficiency is important, judgement and safety are much more important. How do we or THEY determine the individuals level of judgement? At what age can we assume good judgement regarding firearms? Is age even important?
Ask Hillary. I expect she has the answers about our individual rights regarding the 2nd Amendment. If I put a box of .45 ACP and a box of .45 Colt in front of you, and there was a 1911 and a Ruger Blackhawk in front of you, would you know how to load either one and could you put the right cartridge in the right gun? Could you hit a man size target 9 feet in front of you? Hell, you could put one box of ammo with one gun and some of these people couldn't do it. They can't load it, they can't put it into battery, and they can't hit the target. 'I've never done this before' should never be uttered in a CHL class, yet it is many times over.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: okierifleman]
#6250961
04/07/16 02:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275
jeepercreeper
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Tighten up the shooting qualifications, period. If you don't pass, you get no CHL until you become proficient enough to pass. Stevie Wonder could pass the test as it is now. Remember, those people you guys are referring to that shoot that bad are carrying loaded weapons on their person... Thats what scares me. The lady that "qualified" next to me at my last renewal was ALL over the place. S&W 642 was brand new out of the package. It is a miracle that myself and instructor walked out alive that day. It scares the crap out of me that she's out there somewhere walking around with a revolver in her purse, fumbling for her car keys or mascara.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250967
04/07/16 02:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,477
Big Fitz
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Make it simple and only allow registered Republicans to carry! The government is simply not geared to do anything efficiently so keep them out of this and hope/pray they will focus on more critical issues.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6250987
04/07/16 03:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275
jeepercreeper
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Anyone interested in starting a deal like Appleseed, but for pistols? I imagine it would be wildly successful and could potentially alleviate some of the issues without involving government or laws.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Big Fitz]
#6250995
04/07/16 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,405
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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The government is simply not geared to do anything efficiently so keep them out of this and hope/pray they will focus on more critical issues. That's more well said than I could do. Bigger government is NEVER the right answer. If you need further proof, look at your healthcare costs
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6251000
04/07/16 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 606
red bluff
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 606 |
I would like to see the big names, NRA- CMP- and gun manufacturers work with gun ranges to offer free training. I'm sure there is already alot of you tube stuff but everyone needs real life hands on training in a controlled environment.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: RiverRider]
#6251004
04/07/16 03:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,348
J.G.
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I think it's more of a cultural issue than anything.
JG, I'm sure you really don't believe that criminals refrain from carrying because we don't "permit" it! Of course I don't believe it. I'm as pro gun as anyone you'll find. I keep a pocket pistol in the door, and a XDs with a holder in the console, as well as a carbine under the back seat. Firearms are like fire hydrants, you never know where you'll need one, so have them everywhere. You would be shocked at the pure helplessness we see in people on the calls we run. We routinely roll a ladder truck to go turn off a water meter, go turn off a breaker, go unplug landscaping lights, turn off a water heater. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but dealing with them as close as I do has me losing faith in people's metal capacity. Point being, people are losing any mechanical aptitude, and a pistol is a machine. As I said before, if there's going to be a license, add proficiency to the class. Otherwise eliminate the license.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6251182
04/07/16 06:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 937
BigDad
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Tracker
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I'm gonna open this big o can of worms for all to opinionate. With EVERYONE buying a gun now, getting their LTC. Should there being a MANDATORY training "test" required to shoot a handgun??? Just like we have to take to drive a car???? Have I gone to far LEFT with this one? Every time, I go to the range now, I have to keep a revolving head to make sure some gun newbie is not covering me with his shiney new Glock (of course Glock because that's what someone told him to get). I say no, this could very easily turn into a permit to own a gun.
Joe
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6251202
04/07/16 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,191
Brother in-law
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Yes there should be score and handling requirements. The licenses are handed out to scared paranoid individuals way to easily.
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6251212
04/07/16 07:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,533
RiverRider
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I didn't think otherwise, JG...just wanted to prod you a little more out into the open.
Seems to me the bottom line is that criminals will be criminals and morons will be morons and there's not a damn thing we can do to dissuade them, so in the meantime it does no good to hamstring ourselves with more laws that just won't address the core is
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: RiverRider]
#6251349
04/07/16 09:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,348
J.G.
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Morons will be morons, but we can educate them, and have them become former morons.
I'm not about expansion of government, so it would not be a bad idea to let the private market take over the education. Increase the qualifying score minimum, private lessons are already taught by licensed instructors for profit. A one day class becomes an optional two day class. If you see the minimum standard is beyond your skill set, then sign up for day one, where the instructor starts at the basement and works students through everything pertaining to safe handling, loading, clearing, and finally shooting the pistol to proficiency.
If a man or woman believe they are proficient enough to meet the newly raised minimum standards, then they may skip day one, and only attend day two which is mostly material addressing laws. Final afternoon, everyone goes out and qualifies. Treat them like we are treated at a rifle match. You lock your bolt back, in this case slide, unless actively shooting, you cover someone with a muzzle you are automatically disqualified and you may repeat the course.
Keeping the standards as low as they are does not improve the quality of instruction nor does it improve the quality of graduates. Raising the standards is not anti-second amendment, it is pro firearm proficiency.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6251396
04/07/16 10:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,415
Dave Davidson
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And how is good judgement to be regulated and/or tested?
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6251398
04/07/16 10:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,326
Buzzsaw
OP
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OP
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Some great opinions here !!! very smart people here!!!!
The OP is brilliant!!!
Even the LTC class has lost allot. It's like turn em and burn em. make iot rain money for instructors.
maybe, gun safety 101 should be covered more, maybe for the "new" shooters(gun owners) first time LTC class takers.
I definitely agree NO GOVERNMENT involvement local or national. It's just common sense to me...but....well...
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Oh Yes, I'm "going there" yes or no, what do U say?
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#6251408
04/07/16 10:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,348
J.G.
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And how is good judgement to be regulated and/or tested? Impossible. That is beyond the scope of any pistol instructor, or governing body.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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