I can't believe there is not a shooting proficiency level that must be attained to get a CHL.

When I got my CHL in Arkansas about 15 years ago you had to pass a shooting test with your own gun...seems like that is very reasonable considering you could potentially have someone drawing and firing in a criminal situation. I think they should have a certain level of precision when firing!

Let's think about this, do you really want the government coming in this saying you need to shoot at a certain level. Heaven forbid it, but lets just say hillary clinton gets into office. Number one, it wouldn't be possible to pass the test; ten rounds freehand from a 38 snub nose at 200 yards in a one inch bull. Number two, the cost would be so high for renewal you couldn't afford it. You don't want to start making it easier for the gun control freeks to limit us. Yes, there are clowns that probably shouldn't ever have a gun in their hand, but there's also people out there that shouldn't be allowed to breed.

That is a silly argument, and states like Arizona and West Virginia do allow conceal and open carry without a permit.

I think it's more of a cultural issue than anything.

JG, I'm sure you really don't believe that criminals refrain from carrying because we don't "permit" it!

The highlighted part is very true and important. It applies to everything from guns, to driving to voting to finances, to..........

It is a societal problem, which cannot be solved with social engineering and laws enacted by the government.

Marc

I think this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

But not by creating a law to do it.

You could certainly require the instruction classes to tighten up the requirements and the safety aspect of the classes. Have a requirement that is a single person stage or stages that must be passed before any type of group shooting takes place.

There is, it's just an extraordinarily low bar, and I bet many of the instructors fudge the numbers to get people to pass.

Tighten up the shooting qualifications, period. If you don't pass, you get no CHL until you become proficient enough to pass. Stevie Wonder could pass the test as it is now. Remember, those people you guys are referring to that shoot that bad are carrying loaded weapons on their person...

And so it must be. Othetwise we are discriminating against the visually impaired.

All us seniors knew how to drive waay before we ever took Driver's Ed. (Yeah we all took Driver's Ed). We also knew how to shoot straight and safe waay before we learned to drive.

You just can't help any millennialist, they know much more than you do. Got that straight from a 25yo idiot boy child just the other day.

I think everyone ought to be proficient if they own a firearm. But, who determines the level of proficiency? Some level of government? What level of government and what level of proficiency?

I can no longer claim to be a 10 ring shooter. I used to be but no longer and I used to carry one in the military. Should I be denied the right to self protection? How many of you/us will be denied based on some level of proficiency.

Further, while proficiency is important, judgement and safety are much more important. How do we or THEY determine the individuals level of judgement? At what age can we assume good judgement regarding firearms? Is age even important?

Ask Hillary. I expect she has the answers about our individual rights regarding the 2nd Amendment.

If I put a box of .45 ACP and a box of .45 Colt in front of you, and there was a 1911 and a Ruger Blackhawk in front of you, would you know how to load either one and could you put the right cartridge in the right gun? Could you hit a man size target 9 feet in front of you?

Hell, you could put one box of ammo with one gun and some of these people couldn't do it. They can't load it, they can't put it into battery, and they can't hit the target.

'I've never done this before' should never be uttered in a CHL class, yet it is many times over.

Thats what scares me. The lady that "qualified" next to me at my last renewal was ALL over the place. S&W 642 was brand new out of the package. It is a miracle that myself and instructor walked out alive that day. It scares the crap out of me that she's out there somewhere walking around with a revolver in her purse, fumbling for her car keys or mascara.

Make it simple and only allow registered Republicans to carry!

The government is simply not geared to do anything efficiently so keep them out of this and hope/pray they will focus on more critical issues.

Anyone interested in starting a deal like Appleseed, but for pistols? I imagine it would be wildly successful and could potentially alleviate some of the issues without involving government or laws.

That's more well said than I could do.

Bigger government is NEVER the right answer. If you need further proof, look at your healthcare costs

I would like to see the big names, NRA- CMP- and gun manufacturers work with gun ranges to offer free training. I'm sure there is already alot of you tube stuff but everyone needs real life hands on training in a controlled environment.

Of course I don't believe it. I'm as pro gun as anyone you'll find. I keep a pocket pistol in the door, and a XDs with a holder in the console, as well as a carbine under the back seat. Firearms are like fire hydrants, you never know where you'll need one, so have them everywhere.

You would be shocked at the pure helplessness we see in people on the calls we run. We routinely roll a ladder truck to go turn off a water meter, go turn off a breaker, go unplug landscaping lights, turn off a water heater. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but dealing with them as close as I do has me losing faith in people's metal capacity. Point being, people are losing any mechanical aptitude, and a pistol is a machine.

As I said before, if there's going to be a license, add proficiency to the class. Otherwise eliminate the license.

I say no, this could very easily turn into a permit to own a gun.

Yes there should be score and handling requirements. The licenses are handed out to scared paranoid individuals way to easily.

I didn't think otherwise, JG...just wanted to prod you a little more out into the open.

Seems to me the bottom line is that criminals will be criminals and morons will be morons and there's not a damn thing we can do to dissuade them, so in the meantime it does no good to hamstring ourselves with more laws that just won't address the core is

Morons will be morons, but we can educate them, and have them become former morons.

I'm not about expansion of government, so it would not be a bad idea to let the private market take over the education. Increase the qualifying score minimum, private lessons are already taught by licensed instructors for profit. A one day class becomes an optional two day class. If you see the minimum standard is beyond your skill set, then sign up for day one, where the instructor starts at the basement and works students through everything pertaining to safe handling, loading, clearing, and finally shooting the pistol to proficiency.

If a man or woman believe they are proficient enough to meet the newly raised minimum standards, then they may skip day one, and only attend day two which is mostly material addressing laws. Final afternoon, everyone goes out and qualifies. Treat them like we are treated at a rifle match. You lock your bolt back, in this case slide, unless actively shooting, you cover someone with a muzzle you are automatically disqualified and you may repeat the course.

Keeping the standards as low as they are does not improve the quality of instruction nor does it improve the quality of graduates. Raising the standards is not anti-second amendment, it is pro firearm proficiency.

And how is good judgement to be regulated and/or tested?

Some great opinions here !!! very smart people here!!!!

The OP is brilliant!!!

Even the LTC class has lost allot. It's like turn em and burn em. make iot rain money for instructors.

maybe, gun safety 101 should be covered more, maybe for the "new" shooters(gun owners) first time LTC class takers.

I definitely agree NO GOVERNMENT involvement local or national. It's just common sense to me...but....well...

Impossible.

That is beyond the scope of any pistol instructor, or governing body.