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Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
#5963954
10/06/15 05:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Question for THF. I am about to build a custom rifle to shoot Berger's new 195 grain Elite Hunter bullet. We have waited on this bullet for almost 3 years. I am very excited to get this project up and running with these new bullets. My question is- what caliber should I go with- 7 Rem Mag or 7mm/300 Win Mag (a 300 Win Mag necked down to 7mm)? These are the only 2 calibers to chose from!!!! 7 STW is too long, and a WSM, uh, just no! Keep these factors in mind: 1- I plan to shoot this rifle for load work up, but plan to sell this rifle once I develop a load for it. 2- I want a magnum round that can push this 195 at a high speed to take advantage of the high BC. 3- I would like to have a rifle to test in 7 Rem Mag to sell 7 Mag ammo with this 195 grain bullet 4- This bullet requires an 8" twist barrel to stabilize, so a 1:9" is only marginally stable. Estimated speeds- For the 7 Rem Mag, the 195 should be running about 2850-2900 fps. For the 7/300 Win Mag, the 195 should be running about 3000-3100 fps. Specs for the build: Stiller Predator action Krieger barrel- .284 CAL SS 5R 1-8" #15 STANDARD PALMA Contour 26" Timney trigger 20 moa rail BDL, hinged floor plate bottom metal stock- undecided, but will be a hunting style stock Threaded muzzle for brake or suppressor I'd like this rifle to be geared as a high-end hunting rifle, and not a competition rifle. I am leaning towards the 7mm/300 Win Mag case, because of the higher speeds. 150 to 200 fps increase is a lot of difference in energy on target. Ammo is easily made by running 300 WM brass up into a neck die with the proper size neck bushing, which I already have the dies for. Now, a penny for your thoughts!!
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5963964
10/06/15 05:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,507
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,507 |
Like the idea of the 7mm/300 for this bullet but from a business standpoint which will you sell more of 7mm/300 or 7mm Rem Mag?
Pretty much any rifle that will work best with that bullet at this time will have a non factory barrel on it unless I am mistaken most 7mm factory barrels in 7mm are 1:9 or 1:9.25
Last edited by kmon1; 10/06/15 05:29 PM.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5963972
10/06/15 05:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,518
NewJeep
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Plain old 7mm would be best.
Live to hunt, forced to work!
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964020
10/06/15 06:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,420
ZK-315
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Just curious by why no WSM? Lack of brass possibly? I'm currently having a 7 WSM built to shoot the 180gr bergers, but may try out the new 195s
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964022
10/06/15 06:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 672
ltsheets
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What about 28 nosler to gain some velocity over the 7mm mag and will still have factory brass to buy?
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964024
10/06/15 06:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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If you want to maximize the gun 7mm/300
If you want to be friendlier to reloaders who can't/won't modify brass 7mm mag
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964036
10/06/15 06:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,131
Brother in-law
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From a hunter standpoint keep it a 7mm and make it easier to sell.
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964038
10/06/15 06:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183
Mike Honcho
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Resale potential 7 mag. Awesomeness in every category 7/300win.
“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964048
10/06/15 06:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 603
Dien
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Tracker
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964049
10/06/15 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,200
Korean Redneck
Extreme Tracker
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It sounds to me like you'd be gearing this towards more of a speciality market/niche group. I assume 1:8 is not too common in factory rifles because commercially available ammo in 7mm mag does not do too well. Also, if the selling point behind the rifle is it's based around this specific bullet, seems like future buyers have no choice but to reload anyways.
That said, I think you go for the odd ball (7mm/300 win mag) cartridge.
Now when can I come by an pick up my penny?
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964092
10/06/15 06:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964099
10/06/15 06:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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“We have made 3 kills with the bullets, and they perform extremely well. The animals were llamas, which are normally hard to kill. We took three shots from 10 ft, 500 yards and 1046 yards. All of the bullets expanded and killed immediately. One of the shots was a frontal which flipped the animal over completely!”
10 feet on a llama? Is that even ethical?
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ZK-315]
#5964104
10/06/15 06:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Just curious by why no WSM? Lack of brass possibly? I'm currently having a 7 WSM built to shoot the 180gr bergers, but may try out the new 195s Brass availability, somewhat finicky to load for, needs a long action to get the true potential, and if I'm going long action anyway, let's get a bigger case to push it faster. Just never been a WSM fan (except for the 325 and 338 WSM rounds).
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ltsheets]
#5964110
10/06/15 06:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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What about 28 nosler to gain some velocity over the 7mm mag and will still have factory brass to buy? I have worked on several 26 Noslers, and about to work on a 28 Nosler. They are similar to a RUM, they are very finicky, and I'm not a RUM fan at all.
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: Dien]
#5964111
10/06/15 06:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5964113
10/06/15 06:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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^^ That's funny right there!!!
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964153
10/06/15 07:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
^^ That's funny right there!!! Sorry all I could think about when I read the article who knew they where grizzly bear tough lol How picky are we talking on the 26 and 28. Was just about to flip a coin on one.
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964178
10/06/15 07:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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We are building a 28 Nosler right now. It should be ready this week, so I may have an update on the 28 Nosler in the coming days/week.
I built 4, Tikka T3 rifles in the 26 Nosler for 1 customer. We basically bought Tikka T3's in 300 WM, and installed a custom 6.5mm barrel chambered in 26 Nosler. These rifles shot very well. However, they are pushing 90 grains of powder. The barrels heat up VERY quickly. You will get about 2, maybe 3 rounds before you have to let it cool. We went with a little heavier barrel contours to help with this. Shooting 3 shot groups, they were 1/2 moa shooters, maybe a little better.
I completed a load work up on a factory Nosler M48 Patriot rifle in 26 Nosler. It was spraying bullets all over the place at 200 yards. This rifle has a 28" barrel, and is a fairly thin sporter type barrel. I tried 140 VLD's (which the Tikka T3's loved) and 140 Accubond's. The 140 AB did shot a little better. What I ended up doing was shooting 1 round at a time, and let the barrel cool about 15 minutes between each shot. I put 3 rounds in less than 1" inch at 200 yards. After the second round, the barrel heated up, and the rounds started walking around on me. The ONLY way I saw to get any kind of repeatable accuracy was 1 round at a time. I do think there was a little bit of a bedding issue, but maybe not.
Plus, the only way to get the advertised speeds is to go 28" on barrel length. 3300 fps is doable with a 140. I went higher in powder, but got pressure signs, so 3300 is all I feel is comfortable. I have seen where some shooters claim 3400-3500 fps with a 140. I don't see how.
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964189
10/06/15 07:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Perfect!! Thank you
You just broke my heart, but I'd rather know up front then toss a rifle in the trash at the range
I'm back to thinking 6.5 saum
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964266
10/06/15 08:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,645
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I don't think you can win either way, Chad. 7mag, nobody's going to have the 1:8 right now so sales will be light. 7/300, probably a very small number out there even if they did have the right twist I bet most of those guys load their own. I think you might be answering a question nobody has asked?
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964329
10/06/15 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 606
red bluff
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the 375 Ruger case holds 99 grain of H2O. Necked down and with different shoulder angle probably get well over 100 grain.
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964390
10/06/15 09:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,682
cmorsch
Pro Tracker
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Chad, I would go 7mm/300. That bullet is meant to be shot at longer ranges then what your average hunter will shoot out to. And those that do shoot that far most likely reload as it is and should not have an issue re-sizing 300 win mag brass.
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964395
10/06/15 09:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Hell you will shot the barrel out before you would sell it anyway.. Resale is mute... Build it feed it
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964401
10/06/15 09:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 757
fast88
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Make it a 7mm-300wm do your load data and sell it to me?
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Re: Custom 7mm rifle to shoot the new Berger 195 Elite Hunter bullets
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5964433
10/06/15 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
5 Stand Dan
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Nice article on a 7mm/300 7mm Practical
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