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Neck Size Bushing Question
#5947517
09/26/15 01:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Hunter Gatherer
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Woodsman
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I'm getting a slight round indentation on bullets that I seat with a Hornady die. It goes completely around the bullet. The cartridge is also encountering resistance after the bullet is seated and I'm bringing the cartridge down to remove it from the die. I can't account for an adjustment for this. It seems that maybe my neck size bushing is too tight but I don't think that there is an adjustment for this. My cases are demurred and chamfered and all cut to the correct length. Any suggestions?
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5947665
09/26/15 04:08 PM
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J.G.
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Pics of any? I'm not following you.
If the neck tension is too tight the only thing you can do is get a different bushing.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5947675
09/26/15 04:16 PM
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bo3
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Are you possibly crimping it by having the seating die improperly adjusted? Or is the indentation closer to the tip and caused by the seating stem? I don't think he's talking about a neck bushing but a seating die instead.
Last edited by bo323; 09/26/15 04:17 PM.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5947743
09/26/15 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Judd
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To figure out neck tension bushing size I normally seat a bullet in the case and measure the neck just back from the mouth. Then buy two bushings that are .001 & .002 smaller...most guns will shoot one of those two but some guys will run up to .003 neck tension.
I would bet you may or may not have the right neck tension but the problem is probably you're using the wrong seating stem in your seater. You probably need a VLD stem for the bullets you're shooting. When I've had a ring around that is normally the culprit more so than the neck tension.
Good luck!
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Judd]
#5947975
09/26/15 10:50 PM
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To figure out neck tension bushing size I normally seat a bullet in the case and measure the neck just back from the mouth. Then buy two bushings that are .001 & .002 smaller...most guns will shoot one of those two but some guys will run up to .003 neck tension.
I would bet you may or may not have the right neck tension but the problem is probably you're using the wrong seating stem in your seater. You probably need a VLD stem for the bullets you're shooting. When I've had a ring around that is normally the culprit more so than the neck tension.
Good luck! I'm using VLD bullets from Berger so that's probably a step in the right direction.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5947980
09/26/15 10:56 PM
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Joined: May 2011
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jeff1383
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The VLD is s long bullet and needs a deeper seating stem. That's what's causing the ring on the bullet. The fact that is getting stuck is more than likely high neck tension
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5948118
09/27/15 12:50 AM
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What seating stem is normally used for the VLD's? Can you order the stem as a single piece and just replace the one that comes in the die?
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5948374
09/27/15 04:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,255
Judd
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Yes, you can order just the stem. Call and talk to Hornady and based upon my past experience they will probably just send it to you. One thing you can check...it sounds like you have the match dies. Under the small piece of foam is sometimes another seating stem...try that one because they are normally different and will have both in the box. http://www.hornady.com/store/Miscellaneous-Die-Accessories/?page=2They call them a custom seating stem...Wilson calls them VLD drift stems.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5948813
09/27/15 04:34 PM
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ChadTRG42
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What you are getting is from the seating stem making a ring around the bullet where it puts pressure on the bullet during seating. What caliber are you running, and what brass? Also, do u have a compressed load? Can you calculate how much neck tension you have on the brass?
Hornady does make a VLD or match seating stem that you may need. You may also have too much neck tension on the brass. But I need more info to help diagnose you issue.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949403
09/27/15 11:55 PM
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25-06, with once fired federal brass. I don't think that there is any reason to think I've got a compressed load at this point. I don't know how to calculate neck tension yet, but point me in the right direction and I'll do it. I appreciate the help. I should also mention that I'm working with the minimum recommended powder charge right now, so there is definitely room in the case.
Last edited by Hunter Gatherer; 09/27/15 11:56 PM.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949414
09/27/15 11:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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Question for you- why do you want to neck size a 25-06? Also, if you are running a Berger VLD, then you are running the 115 VLD. If you are running minimum charges with it, and running a slower burning powder, it won't shoot very well.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949434
09/28/15 12:12 AM
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OK I'm somewhat confused. I'm not neck sizing. I'm sizing full length. This is my very first load ever, so I was just starting out with the lowest load given in Berger's manual. I fully intend to ramp it up. I mentioned in my original question that my neck size bushing might not be right, but I could have been using incorrect terminology (please have patience with me). I just have standard off the shelf Hornady custom full length dies in 25-06.
Also, my main reason for reloading is being able to use the bullets I want for several calibers for hunting. I consider hunting ranges for me to be 300 yards and less. Normally, I can get within 200 yards of anything I hunt other than elk. Thus, I don't need to be able to put everything through the same hole. I almost never shoot off a bench other than for sighting in. For me, it's all about bullet selection for different applications. I relate this only to say that I'll never shoot 900 yards unless there is a T-Rex after me.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949444
09/28/15 12:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
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I believe your terminology is incorrect as based on the info given there should not be a bushing involved in the process you are performing which is just a simple full length resize. As others stated above you just need another bullet seating stem designed for AMax / VLD style bullets. The ring you are seeing is only cosmetic and will not be detrimental to performance based off the your planned use.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949457
09/28/15 12:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Yes, I'm not understanding exactly what your asking. I also run the Hornady FL dies, and use the 115 Berger all the time with these dies, and they work fine.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949463
09/28/15 12:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
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I may not even have a problem. I just thought it was odd to see a ring around the bullet like this. Really that's the question. Is seeing a ring around the bullet an indication of a problem? They seat just fine, and I'm doing it exactly as Berger recommends in their manual.
Also, I may not even need to reload. There's this place I recently discovered called Custom Reloads of Dallas that I might just start using...
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949471
09/28/15 12:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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First off, tell me your sizing process. Specifically, how did you set up the die making contact with the shell holder. A lot of first time reloaders raise the ram all the way up with the shell holder in, and lower the die down to make contact, then lock the die down. This procedure is not correct. After the die makes contact with the shell holder, you have to lower the ram, and screw the die down another 1/2 to full turn (or more). I screw my dies down to just before the ram cams over, which is where you have the most leverage.
And when setting up your seating die, how did you position it in the press? If the die is lowered too much, then it will make contact with the die body, causing it to stick or deform the case. If you take out the seating stem, and put a case in the shell holder and raise it up, you can screw the seater die down and feel when it makes contact with the shoulder. This is too far down, so unscrew it some, and don't go past that when seating. Then, set up your seating stem to the desired depth.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949494
09/28/15 12:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
postoak
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It's *possible* you have a defective die that is reducing the diameter of the neck too much, thus requiring too much pressure to seat the bullet, causing a slight mark on it and increasing the pressure required to pull the loaded round out of the die. But since this is your first time loading, it is more likely that you are over-reacting to some minor marks.
If you have a pair of calipers -- and you should -- carefully measure the inside of the case neck after sizing and before bullet seating and let us know that measurement.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949505
09/28/15 12:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,255
Judd
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There is a FL size die with bushing necks...it allows you to control neck tension and still FL size.
I explained above how to measure how much neck tension you have. Measure the mouth of a case with the bullet seated in it already...then the difference between that and your bushing size is your neck tension.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#5949563
09/28/15 01:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 173
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First off, tell me your sizing process. Specifically, how did you set up the die making contact with the shell holder. A lot of first time reloaders raise the ram all the way up with the shell holder in, and lower the die down to make contact, then lock the die down. This procedure is not correct. After the die makes contact with the shell holder, you have to lower the ram, and screw the die down another 1/2 to full turn (or more). I screw my dies down to just before the ram cams over, which is where you have the most leverage.
And when setting up your seating die, how did you position it in the press? If the die is lowered too much, then it will make contact with the die body, causing it to stick or deform the case. If you take out the seating stem, and put a case in the shell holder and raise it up, you can screw the seater die down and feel when it makes contact with the shoulder. This is too far down, so unscrew it some, and don't go past that when seating. Then, set up your seating stem to the desired depth. I know that I specifically used the techniques you are describing above when I set my dies up but I'm not sure that I went down far enough for setting up the sizing die. I may have turned it less than a full turn. I know for certain that I set up the seating die exactly as you described. I'll go back over this again to be sure I haven't missed something. I really appreciate the help.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Judd]
#5949690
09/28/15 02:07 AM
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postoak
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There is a FL size die with bushing necks...it allows you to control neck tension and still FL size.
I explained above how to measure how much neck tension you have. Measure the mouth of a case with the bullet seated in it already...then the difference between that and your bushing size is your neck tension. What is this bushing you are talking about? Do you mean the expander ball diameter?
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949698
09/28/15 02:12 AM
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postoak
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I can't say all brands of dies work like this but the instructions on my Redding dies say screw the seating die in until it contacts the raised ram and shell holder and then back off one turn -- unless your bullet has a cannelure and you want to crimp into that cannelure. That seems a little simpler than removing the expander ball and trying to feel the case mouth make contact with the case.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: postoak]
#5949746
09/28/15 02:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Full length sizer die Full length bushing sizer die
Two different things.
The bushing sizer die, you have to also purchase a bushing that shrinks the neck down. As Judd described, you determine how much you want the neck O.D. (and thus I.D.) is shrunk based on what size bushing you buy for the die. Thus determining neck tension.
P.S. Berger's powder charges are way too light.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5949990
09/28/15 11:16 AM
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postoak
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Who makes such a bushing sizer die? I am only familiar with Lee's collet neck sizing dies.
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: Hunter Gatherer]
#5950011
09/28/15 12:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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DStroud
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Reload only if you enjoy it or shoot a lot. I have never met Chad (Custom Reloads of Dallas) but I have sent several folks his way when they ask about good ammo for their rifles. All have thanked me later.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Neck Size Bushing Question
[Re: postoak]
#5950066
09/28/15 01:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Who makes such a bushing sizer die? I am only familiar with Lee's collet neck sizing dies. RCBS Redding Forster Hornady Probably other brands I didn't list.
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