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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5858930
08/02/15 12:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: stxranchman]
#5858970
08/02/15 12:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,042
Western
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,042 |
Had to double take who posted that, but you wrote that different then the regular, it would have been "" and chill'n, as pappy say's ""
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5858978
08/02/15 12:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,666
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
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I've hunted 33 years and I can't recall ever seeing a fawn that appeared to have been born in Oct/Nov.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
#5859033
08/02/15 01:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,565
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,565 |
I've hunted 33 years and I can't recall ever seeing a fawn that appeared to have been born in Oct/Nov. How far south have you hunted? I've never seen Nov but have seen Oct.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859064
08/02/15 01:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,529
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,529 |
I have seen them in November and December. That was in Mississippi after several years of the crazy buck a day 4 month seasons and the buck to doe ratio was according to the local biologist 1:27. There were does going through several cycles before getting bred.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859088
08/02/15 02:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,182
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,182 |
They'll make good deer. But not great deer.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
#5859091
08/02/15 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I've hunted 33 years and I can't recall ever seeing a fawn that appeared to have been born in Oct/Nov. I'm older and prettier than you are and I've seen them born in oct. on every place I've hunted since '96. As I stated, this is my first experience with nov fawns.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859115
08/02/15 02:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I just don't see the leap in logic that just because (by your own admission) a very small % of your deer may be late, late fawns that this means you must never shoot spikes and let every spike gene be passed on. Forever.
No method will yield perfect results in the deer management game. But good management means you engage in a cost/benefit analysis and employ the method that will provide the best results. Just because a rule has exceptions doesn't mean it's smart to ignore the rule.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859118
08/02/15 02:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,666
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,666 |
I've hunted 33 years and I can't recall ever seeing a fawn that appeared to have been born in Oct/Nov. I'm older and prettier than you are and I've seen them born in oct. on every place I've hunted since '96. As I stated, this is my first experience with nov fawns. Prettier? I dunno...
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5859136
08/02/15 02:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I just don't see the leap in logic that just because (by your own admission) a very small % of your deer may be late, late fawns that this means you must never shoot spikes and let every spike gene be passed on. Forever.
No method will yield perfect results in the deer management game. But good management means you engage in a cost/benefit analysis and employ the method that will provide the best results. Just because a rule has exceptions doesn't mean it's smart to ignore the rule. I'm questioning the rule. I actually have two other spikes this year. I'm almost certain they were October or late September fawns. And the cost benefit analysis is ongoing. That 10 point in the vid is weighing real heavy in the + category. It is my opinion that the studies that "prove" the need to kill all spikes were conducted on herds that were heavy with hill country deer. In the 60's, 70's and into the 80's you had some really nasty hill country gene pools. It is my opinion that most of that has been rectified. I know for a fact that the spikes on my place have the genes to produce fine deer (one of the many benefits of a high fence )I have plenty of nice six to twelve+ point yearling bucks. But I believe they were born earlier in '14.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859144
08/02/15 03:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Well it certainly is a heated debate.
I sure don't know either. Just have to pick a side and go with it I guess. Honestly, my place does not have that many spikes, even as yearlings. Guess I am lucky. (Not to imply I have a trophy place, but it is getting better every year.)
I shoot obviously older spikes. And let the a youngun shoot a spike or two each year just because I'm in an AR county. But it's not a big issue on my place.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859146
08/02/15 03:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I can usually tell which ones of ours were born early and which ones weren't. I have one that was later last year where we actually hunt. I staked out his mama hoping she'd cycle since she camped out on the upper end of the field. I had to call it quits and exit survey in late Jan, the little nubbin was still hanging with her. He'll be with her still I'd imagine when I get to see this pics from the last couple months. Quite possible he could be a spike. As wet as it was though he ought to be a chunk living in the berry thicket.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859157
08/02/15 03:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859161
08/02/15 03:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Enfamil in the water trough?
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859166
08/02/15 03:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: stxranchman]
#5859171
08/02/15 03:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859173
08/02/15 03:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859179
08/02/15 03:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Nope, not even by a 5 pt or less since every buck with 5 pts or less was culled in the previous 11 yrs. They were sired by bucks with at least 6 pts or more as yearlings. They were all born the 11 and 12th year of that culling routine. They were all born in the driest year(s) of that period also. They are all 2 yr olds in those pics. There are 3 different bucks.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: rifleman]
#5859194
08/02/15 03:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
One was and one wasn't, the other I am not sure. This is either the top 2 pics or 3rd pic buck. I am about 90% certain it was the buck in the top 2 pics buck since he ate out of the same feeders as the buck in those pics. The other buck in the 3rd pic also ate from those same feeders. Either way it was a tremendous yearling and he is the product of good genetics that got a chance to show itself from intensive yearling culling. He is a 6x6 yearling. This buck is the buck in the last 2 pics. He is at the same feeder/blind location and you can tell by the beam shape he is the same buck only a year older. Main frame 9 point. Why would anyone want to allow a spike to live and breed when you could have this kind of quality? The yearling bucks that were culled field dressed between 75 and 119 lbs(3 pt) on this ranch. We never killed a good yearling to know what they would have dressed. Mature bucks dressed from 175 to 205 depending on the time of year. Food plots year round, protein year round and not the best habitat but with rain it was decent forbes at times. This ranch was managed intensely for top end bucks from the first year on. Of course it was HF. I know of some LF ranches that are doing the same intense management and culling heavy on yearlings and up. They are seeing the same results. Only issue with LF is enough acres. Hard the for smaller places to see much benefit without the help of a lot of neighbors.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: stxranchman]
#5859270
08/02/15 06:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859493
08/02/15 02:33 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
That's all I have to say about that.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: skinnerback]
#5859594
08/02/15 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Excellent point Skinnerback. What was I thinking? I should encourage folks to shoot young spikes... It pretty much guarantees my business.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: therancher]
#5859613
08/02/15 03:54 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,031 |
Excellent point Skinnerback. What was I thinking? I should encourage folks to shoot young spikes... It pretty much guarantees my business.
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Re: Why you never EVER shoot spikes
[Re: skinnerback]
#5859657
08/02/15 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Excellent point Skinnerback. What was I thinking? I should encourage folks to shoot young spikes... It pretty much guarantees my business. Speechless huh? It's pretty simple, the more young spikes that are killed, the fewer trophies reach maturity. Which drives bidness my way. I'm sure you got that. I'm curious though, how many people believe there are actually a statistically significant number of spikes in their second year? My personal opinion is they're as rare as hen's teeth (everywhere).
Crotchety old bastidge
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