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195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
#5850458
07/27/15 07:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,515
kmon11
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junior
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junior
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Saw on another site the 7mm 195gr Berger Hybrids are in the works. Numbers that are from their testing look pretty good but you will need a faster than standard twist for them 195g Berger hybrid .284 caliber Some have been made and are being tested. Quantities have not been shipped for distribution yet. We're close, within weeks.
Measured Performance: G1 BC = 0.755 (Average from 3000 to 1500 fps) G7 BC = 0.387 (Valid for all speeds)
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5850479
07/27/15 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,841
Hunter-Steve
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let us know if you get them and how they perform.
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5850495
07/27/15 07:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,515
kmon11
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junior
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junior
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I will not be trying them since I do not own a 7mm with a fast enough twist and not rebarreling another rifle just to shoot a longer bullet.
But there are some on this site that have the rifle ready for these when they are available.
One thing I do like the hybrids are much less critical about seating depth than the VLDs
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5850598
07/27/15 09:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag
gramps
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gramps
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1-9.5 is common. What twist are required? My guess for 195 you would need at least 1-8
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5850611
07/27/15 09:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,515
kmon11
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junior
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junior
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One barrel maker has calculated at least 1:8.4 and is recommending 1:8.2 or 1:8
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5850700
07/27/15 09:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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1:8 or faster would be ideal.
Last I heard was that these were going to be under a new extra long range lineup.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5850738
07/27/15 10:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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With the data I have on the bullet length, I'm showing a 1:8.2" twist is minimum, so an 8" twist would be great. I just ordered 4 barrels from Bartlein for inventory and 3000 of these bullets from Berger.
If you run this bullet about 2800-2900 fps or more, this would be the slickest bullet on the market for highest BC. I'm looking into what parent case to push it with. I'm leaning towards a 7mm/300 Win Mag, since I have plenty of brass and dies already. A 7mm Dakota would also be good, but requires all new dies and brass. Something in the 70-80 grains of powder is good. The 7 RUM and 28 Nosler would be too over bore and have too little barrel life, IMO.
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851407
07/28/15 11:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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7-300 is a great and often forgot about option. I bet it will get you pretty close to your goal velocity.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: dee]
#5851532
07/28/15 01:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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I can't rememver if my 7 Rem Mag is a 1:8" or 1:8.4". I plan to try these, and really hope they run on a compressed load of Retumbo as does the 180's I'm currently running. The 180's are making 3040 fps MV, so I should be able to get north of 2900 fps with the 195's.
My biggest problem getting to know them at distance will be holding too much wind correction. These are just not going to get drifted very much, even in a 10 mph cross. My 6.5 Creedmoor for instance is .8 Mil correction at 500 yards in 10 mph wind. I suspect the 7mm 195's will literally be half that. I reserve the 7 Rem Mag for elk and mule deer. The week long mule deer lease I have been invited to for the second year in a row is country that long shots are not only a possibility, but probable. Of course I want the shot as close as I can get it, but I go prepared for a long shot. These 195's are going to hit like a sledge hammer!
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851662
07/28/15 02:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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A lot of the guys shooting the TexasBenchrest.com (400y shooting mini clays 2.25") are going to the 7mm's...specifically 284/284 Shehane/7 Walker. I've been holding out because I don't shoot every one of their matches but after getting spanked in the May match by the 7mm's and 300's it is making me think I need a big gun. If I was getting I'd end up with a 7 Walker, I don't want anything with Shehane's name on it and I think the improved 284 is where it's at.
Biggest problem is I hate recoil...but this new bullet has me scratching my chin. I've been waiting for my shooting buddy to get his 284 improved (it's a Shehane but he didn't want his name on his stuff either haha) so I could shoot it to see if it's worth the recoil. Now I'm really thinking....
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: Judd]
#5851685
07/28/15 02:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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A lot of the guys shooting the TexasBenchrest.com (400y shooting mini clays 2.25") are going to the 7mm's...specifically 284/284 Shehane/7 Walker. I've been holding out because I don't shoot every one of their matches but after getting spanked in the May match by the 7mm's and 300's it is making me think I need a big gun. If I was getting I'd end up with a 7 Walker, I don't want anything with Shehane's name on it and I think the improved 284 is where it's at.
Biggest problem is I hate recoil...but this new bullet has me scratching my chin. I've been waiting for my shooting buddy to get his 284 improved (it's a Shehane but he didn't want his name on his stuff either haha) so I could shoot it to see if it's worth the recoil. Now I'm really thinking.... Brake? Why not a saum or wsm on a long action.
Last edited by dee; 07/28/15 02:46 PM.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851711
07/28/15 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
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Yes on brake....I'm still a kitty when it comes to recoil. I've shot enough shotguns to know what a flinch is and it's not worth it (one of the few reasons I all but quit shooting sporting clays/5 stand, I've got one and I was always the guy shooting light 7/8 to 1oz loads).
I think a 7wsm would be awesome....but brass for either of those are almost non-existant and you can get good Lapua 6.5-284 brass and Bullets.com has a deal with Nosler (I believe) to make good 284 brass and they are getting pretty regularly.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851716
07/28/15 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
5 Stand Dan
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I found a good article on a 7mm/300 Win Mag wildcat, called the 7mm Practical. Looks very interesting to me, easy to form the brass and better barrel life than the overbored magnums. It appears to be very efficient with the amount of powdered burned. I bet it would get that 195 moving downrange at a good clip. Link->7mm Practical
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851746
07/28/15 03:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
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How does a 7mm 300 win mag not classify as an overbore magnum?
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: redchevy]
#5851764
07/28/15 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,835
5 Stand Dan
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How does a 7mm 300 win mag not classify as an overbore magnum? In my opinion it's not, but it is getting close. Cartridges like the 7mm STW or 7mm RUM use a much bigger case and don't get that much more out of it.
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: Judd]
#5851771
07/28/15 03:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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Yes on brake....I'm still a kitty when it comes to recoil. I've shot enough shotguns to know what a flinch is and it's not worth it (one of the few reasons I all but quit shooting sporting clays/5 stand, I've got one and I was always the guy shooting light 7/8 to 1oz loads).
I think a 7wsm would be awesome....but brass for either of those are almost non-existant and you can get good Lapua 6.5-284 brass and Bullets.com has a deal with Nosler (I believe) to make good 284 brass and they are getting pretty regularly. There are rumors that G.A.P. is in the works with someone who is going to produce saum brass but it will likely be a 6.5 headstamp. Another option is using 270wsm brass as it seems a bit more available.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: redchevy]
#5851854
07/28/15 04:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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How does a 7mm 300 win mag not classify as an overbore magnum? You are right. It is getting close. But... Compared to a 7 RUM or 28 Nosler, it's not. I want something in the 75 to 80 grains of powder for the 195's. Anything more or bigger, and it gets too big and overbore. The STW would be a decent case, but I don't want something that long. You can run into magazine issues with a bullet like this. The 300 WM as a parent case would be an easy transition for me. I already have all the Redding bushing dies for the 300 WM. All I would need is a neck bushing to size the necks down to 7mm, and be GTG. Plus, fitting the round into a long action would be easy with any 300 WM rifle and magazine system.
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: dee]
#5851856
07/28/15 04:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Yes on brake....I'm still a kitty when it comes to recoil. I've shot enough shotguns to know what a flinch is and it's not worth it (one of the few reasons I all but quit shooting sporting clays/5 stand, I've got one and I was always the guy shooting light 7/8 to 1oz loads).
I think a 7wsm would be awesome....but brass for either of those are almost non-existant and you can get good Lapua 6.5-284 brass and Bullets.com has a deal with Nosler (I believe) to make good 284 brass and they are getting pretty regularly. There are rumors that G.A.P. is in the works with someone who is going to produce saum brass but it will likely be a 6.5 headstamp. Another option is using 270wsm brass as it seems a bit more available. I spoke to George with GAP at the Heatstroke match, and he said Hornady will be producing his 6.5 SAUM head stamped brass. Should be coming out soon.
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: Judd]
#5851870
07/28/15 04:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Quit being a pu**ie Judd.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851888
07/28/15 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258 |
In my experience, the Hornady brass is real soft and the primer pockets won't hold on hot loads....at least not like Lapua or Win brass. In the practical games, you might not get more than a couple firings anyway and it won't matter....I don't know.
I've never been a fan of the saum's...I've read the F-class guys (600-1000y) have all but given up on the 6.5saum...it is to finicky to get tuned and stay tuned to their level of accuracy. George was arguing with them on accurate shooter a couple weeks ago.
The 7saum has proven to be an accurate round...I just like the 284 improved and 7wsm better.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5851899
07/28/15 04:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258 |
HAHAHAHA Garvey....especially considering I'm talking 22lb+ guns
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: Judd]
#5851992
07/28/15 05:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Exactly. It aint like I'm asking you to shoot the bigguns off a barricade.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5852527
07/28/15 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,988
Buzzsaw
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Ya'll hurry up and figure it out so I can order another 7mmWSM
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: kmon11]
#5852531
07/28/15 11:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,988
Buzzsaw
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Judd, its interesting talking about shooting the clays. I started with a GAP .308, got spanked by the Duke Brothers and their crew shooting the 6.5X.284's and up. So I sold my .308 and had The 7mmWSM built . I did much better with it with the 180gr Bergers...and 7828ssc'''
Still got my booty spanked by the Duke crew...
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: 195 Berger Hybrid 7mm
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#5853294
07/29/15 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,258 |
Judd, its interesting talking about shooting the clays. I started with a GAP .308, got spanked by the Duke Brothers and their crew shooting the 6.5X.284's and up. So I sold my .308 and had The 7mmWSM built . I did much better with it with the 180gr Bergers...and 7828ssc'''
Still got my booty spanked by the Duke crew... In North Texas we don't have enough 400y matches for me to have built a gun specific for that yardage. I also haven't practiced a lot at that range...I've had my share of Duke whippings and I suspect I'll take a few more. I love the 400y game, it's by far my favorite. I like the strategy of the small/med/large clays. I shoot 6br improved (6brx/6 dasher) which is plenty accurate to be competitive (I've won one 250y Spanish Fort match and won the 200y Denton Cty match this season) if it isn't super busy and the wind isn't blowing 20mph. If the wind is blowing the big guns will eat my lunch...the more it blows the more I'll get beat. August is a busy clay month...8/2 @ Spanish Fort (250y mini clays), 8/9 @ Denton Cty (shoot 3/4" or 7/8" poker chips @ 200y) and 8/16 @ HOTSA in Coolidge (400y Midi & small clays).
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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