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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: The price we pay
[Re: rifleman]
#5604004
02/17/15 02:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Have to do something for exemptions. Our place sits pretty idle. Trees are a 30yr crop, hay field yields roughly 250 bales a year. That's me. I could lease it for cattle and hunting but both of those run directly counter to the reason I bought it in the first place. Also could let in the timber guys and make some $$ off the pine/hardwood. Again, counter to my purposes. The locals (many of whom are my friends now) kinda think I am weird. You're not going to come close to paying for a place in east TX leasing for grazing and/or hunting. You might by cutting it, but then what have you got? I guess I could put some chicken houses in, but I have seen enough of that to know it's not my bag.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: stxranchman]
#5604006
02/17/15 02:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,511
DQ Kid
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Lots of generalizations regarding land ownership in here. As I've always said, big difference in purchasing 200 acres or less vs. 500 acres or more. For 200 acres or less, with a decent down payment, 20-50%, you are talking about servicing a loan of $150-200K up to 20 yrs./maybe 30 yrs. if you can find one.
For 500 acres, after downpayment, you're still talking about servicing a loan of $600-$800K. Lot easier in my book to debt service $200K vs. $800K. I'm not a mathematician, just a guy with an accounting degree that works in Finance/Accounting for a living. way too many generalizations here. its a common theme that if you "don't buy too big a house, drive an old car and don't eat out" you'll be able to have a ranch. Not once has anyone brought up positive cash flow....they all want to save their way to a property. I guess everyone is buying land that will not help pay for itself also via some income from any or all of these.... livestock, farming, hay production, etc. Therein lies the conundrum, for a city slicker wanting to buy a plot of land with principle purpose of hunting, unless you have a bit of "cash flow" as Trophy puts it; it rarely pays to purchase land to simply have it sit "idle". The land has to be worked/improved likely involving livestock to generate sufficient ROI. A bit hard to do though if you live in the city, 200 miles away. Unless you are willing to employ a ranchhand full-time to run the place.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604015
02/17/15 02:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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^^^That's right. Even then it's most likely a losing proposition. The guys who make money on mama cows already have the land paid for. Most are doing it on a shoestring also. I don't think the proverbial "city slicker" has a snowball's chance of making any $$ on cattle starting from scratch. Land too high, equipment too high, help too high. Add in the fact he probably doesn't know a heifer from steer and he's sunk before he ever gets started.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604016
02/17/15 02:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
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Cutting covered ours. We have a good place to hunt.  Thickets turn into good browse, bachelor pads and woodcock cover on the SMZ edges.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604022
02/17/15 02:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I know quite a few people who have bought cattle and run them on leased land. Then after a while sold off part of the cattle to buy some land. Used the sale to do the down payment. Then downsized a bit on their lease land and moved cattle to their land.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people? ![[Linked Image]](http://neoswarm.com/images/Bug_Crawling.gif)
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604027
02/17/15 02:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,511
DQ Kid
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Ranch, I'm talking about a "virtual" landowner living 150-200 miles away, not onsite managing the place through "sweat equity". Person that bought land with principle interest of "hunting only". Do you think that scenario is easy to get ROI off the land?
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604030
02/17/15 02:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,042
Western
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Owning land makes sense for some, not for others. I think it is that simple.............
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Dennis
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: DQ Kid]
#5604034
02/17/15 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
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Ranch, I'm talking about a "virtual" landowner living 150-200 miles away, not onsite managing the place through "sweat equity". Person that bought land with principle interest of "hunting only". Do you think that scenario is easy to get ROI off the land? Helps in borrowing if you have land that has increased its value.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: DQ Kid]
#5604038
02/17/15 02:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Ranch, I'm talking about a "virtual" landowner living 150-200 miles away, not onsite managing the place through "sweat equity". Person that bought land with principle interest of "hunting only". Do you think that scenario is easy to get ROI off the land? If I were to buy land say in Kansas...I would buy it with farmland then hire a farmer to plow, plant and harvest for me. If I wanted to run cattle I would work a deal with the best cowman in the area I could find who I know would take care of my place and not overgraze it. No "sweat equity" on either one but both produce income back from the land. I could also lease any or all of the unwanted hunting like dove, turkey, quail, or hog hunting to the right person(s).
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: Western]
#5604039
02/17/15 02:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,015
txtrophy85
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Owning land makes sense for some, not for others. I think it is that simple............. It is that simple.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: stxranchman]
#5604105
02/17/15 03:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Ranch, I'm talking about a "virtual" landowner living 150-200 miles away, not onsite managing the place through "sweat equity". Person that bought land with principle interest of "hunting only". Do you think that scenario is easy to get ROI off the land? If I were to buy land say in Kansas...I would buy it with farmland then hire a farmer to plow, plant and harvest for me. If I wanted to run cattle I would work a deal with the best cowman in the area I could find who I know would take care of my place and not overgraze it. No "sweat equity" on either one but both produce income back from the land. I could also lease any or all of the unwanted hunting like dove, turkey, quail, or hog hunting to the right person(s). IMO the best farmer/cowman in the area will be growing his own crops/running his own cattle, not hiring out to others. I'll admit I've never done it or looked into it outside of east TX.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5604126
02/17/15 03:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,566
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,566 |
Ranch, I'm talking about a "virtual" landowner living 150-200 miles away, not onsite managing the place through "sweat equity". Person that bought land with principle interest of "hunting only". Do you think that scenario is easy to get ROI off the land? If I were to buy land say in Kansas...I would buy it with farmland then hire a farmer to plow, plant and harvest for me. If I wanted to run cattle I would work a deal with the best cowman in the area I could find who I know would take care of my place and not overgraze it. No "sweat equity" on either one but both produce income back from the land. I could also lease any or all of the unwanted hunting like dove, turkey, quail, or hog hunting to the right person(s). IMO the best farmer/cowman in the area will be growing his own crops/running his own cattle, not hiring out to others. I'll admit I've never done it or looked into it outside of east TX. Crop sharing gives you a higher ROI by working with some of the best farmers in the county. You could just lease to him but that wouldn't maximize your income potential. It also puts more of the sharecroppers skin in the game.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604145
02/17/15 03:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I am not up on the farming game. I do know a lot of guys who do pretty well leasing land and farming it. Always makes me scratch my head as to why the LOs don't insist on some skin in the game.  I think my best bet for retirement income would be to build a few chickenhouses and hire a Hispanic gentleman to run the operation. As of yet, I just don't want to look out and see the dang things or give up the quietitude/privacy my place affords.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604150
02/17/15 04:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
needs to be laying houses.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: redchevy]
#5604160
02/17/15 04:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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I would also like to know where all these property owners are that will let you hunt for work... has definitely not been my experience of the "norm" Most are worried about getting sued.
That, and why open your place up to strangers when you have friends and family that would be happy to spend some time at the ranch helping work the land, shooting does, etc.?
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5604172
02/17/15 04:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,566
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,566 |
I am not up on the farming game. I do know a lot of guys who do pretty well leasing land and farming it. Always makes me scratch my head as to why the LOs don't insist on some skin in the game. I think my best bet for retirement income would be to build a few chickenhouses and hire a Hispanic gentleman to run the operation. As of yet, I just don't want to look out and see the dang things or give up the quietitude/privacy my place affords. Lease is a set/guarantee an acre. Crop share is more volatile and requires much more owner involvement
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: rifleman]
#5604186
02/17/15 04:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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needs to be laying houses. You are good at spending my money. I don't know if NP is close enough to producer facilities for layers. Pretty sure it is for broilers.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5604195
02/17/15 04:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
needs to be laying houses. You are good at spending my money. I don't know if NP is close enough to producer facilities for layers. Pretty sure it is for broilers. Nothing like that smell of fresh chicken  every morning and just imagine fun you can have renaming the place... Upside is you will have piles of chicken for fertilizer... 
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604198
02/17/15 04:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
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There's both in the area. Prob is now they want fewer birds and heavier birds on broilers. Lose a bunch.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: stxranchman]
#5604200
02/17/15 04:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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needs to be laying houses. You are good at spending my money. I don't know if NP is close enough to producer facilities for layers. Pretty sure it is for broilers. Nothing like that smell of fresh chicken every morning and just imagine fun you can have renaming the place... Upside is you will have piles of chicken for fertilizer... LOL I grew up smelling it(my bride did too)-probably wouldn't even notice it. Smells like money.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: stxranchman]
#5604203
02/17/15 04:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
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needs to be laying houses. You are good at spending my money. I don't know if NP is close enough to producer facilities for layers. Pretty sure it is for broilers. Nothing like that smell of fresh chicken every morning and just imagine fun you can have renaming the place... Upside is you will have piles of chicken for fertilizer... About 10 tons goes on the hay field every spring and some going into Fall. Deer like it, but it's why grazon is a necessity.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5604207
02/17/15 04:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
needs to be laying houses. You are good at spending my money. I don't know if NP is close enough to producer facilities for layers. Pretty sure it is for broilers. Nothing like that smell of fresh chicken every morning and just imagine fun you can have renaming the place... Upside is you will have piles of chicken for fertilizer... LOL I grew up smelling it(my bride did too)-probably wouldn't even notice it. Smells like money. Your idea of how money smells different than mine then but I did look into raising them one time, just to far away.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: rifleman]
#5604216
02/17/15 04:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
needs to be laying houses. You are good at spending my money. I don't know if NP is close enough to producer facilities for layers. Pretty sure it is for broilers. Nothing like that smell of fresh chicken every morning and just imagine fun you can have renaming the place... Upside is you will have piles of chicken for fertilizer... About 10 tons goes on the hay field every spring and some going into Fall. Deer like it, but it's why grazon is a necessity. I met a guy who leased some land around Smiley for deer hunting. That blow sand country is not known for big deer but chickens and peanuts. He killed a dang good buck every so often off his lease. Said the bucks were seen regularly eating from the chicken manure piles at the chicken farm next door. I even know of a cattle feed lot that used to get the chicken manure for free in the 70's to just haul it off and they mixed it with corn to feed to cattle in the feedlot.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: rifleman]
#5604231
02/17/15 04:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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There's both in the area. Prob is now they want fewer birds and heavier birds on broilers. Lose a bunch. My problem is my legal mind won't let me sign those dang 1 year contracts. They can leave you high and dry if you don't smootch the right booties and toe the line in all things-like mandatory equipment upgrades. Probably wouldnt suit my personality. I had 80% of the broiler producers in a room once 20 years ago. I put on my Cesar Chavez hat and told them the men in this room could change the industry if they banded together. Had some producer reps and bankers really nervous..... They declined. I understood.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 02/17/15 04:43 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: The price we pay
[Re: 7mag]
#5604236
02/17/15 04:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
You have some lab that was going to produce a turducken naturally?
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