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Hornady reloading manual question
#5601611
02/16/15 01:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
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wp75169
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I've noticed in my 8th edition Hornady book they list the powders in different orders at different times. I'm trying to draw a conclusion as to why they do this. I've read the book extensively and can not find an answer. For example in the two tables below one list 4064 first and the other Varget. One is for 154g and the other is for 162. One might assume most accurate powder tested is listed first but I do not know that to be true. Any input is appreciateD.
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601620
02/16/15 01:33 PM
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kmon11
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Don't they list them in order of velocity of max loads? Could be a different manual I am thinking of though
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601624
02/16/15 01:35 PM
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wp75169
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They may but they generically round them all off in 100' sections. So that is not clear to me either. Actually since some of the faster and slower powders are on down that page im going to say no.
Last edited by wp75169; 02/16/15 01:39 PM.
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601664
02/16/15 02:01 PM
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J.G.
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I've noticed manuals scramble the powders and there seems to be no rhym or reason for doing so. Even seen a powder listed for a cartridge and bullet, the next page on a heavier bullet certain powders are gone. So off to Hodgdon.com I go.
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601679
02/16/15 02:06 PM
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redchevy
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Sometimes it irks me that in my nosler manual they will have a load for the powder im using listed for a 140 grain bullet and a 160 grain of the same cal, but they don't show that powder for the 150's.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: redchevy]
#5601695
02/16/15 02:17 PM
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J.G.
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^^Exactly^^
That's why I reference my two 5 year old manuals AND consult Hodgdon.com
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601718
02/16/15 02:36 PM
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dee
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I cross reference everything I can and try to use data on similar design bullets if possible.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: redchevy]
#5601758
02/16/15 03:02 PM
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wp75169
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Sometimes it irks me that in my nosler manual they will have a load for the powder im using listed for a 140 grain bullet and a 160 grain of the same cal, but they don't show that powder for the 150's. I would think this is because some powders are not suited for some bullet weights. The greatest example I can think of is H110 is for heavy for caliber loads and does not perform well otherwise. You will seldom even find it in standard weight bullets and never in lite ones. Edit: I'm a dummy. Didn't see you was listing a heavy and lite without data in the middle. That is strange.
Last edited by wp75169; 02/16/15 03:11 PM.
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601762
02/16/15 03:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Sometimes it irks me that in my nosler manual they will have a load for the powder im using listed for a 140 grain bullet and a 160 grain of the same cal, but they don't show that powder for the 150's. I would think this is because some powders are not suited for some bullet weights. The greatest example I can think of is H110 is for heavy for caliber loads and does not perform well otherwise. You will seldom even find it in standard weight bullets and never in lite ones. Right... but why would IMR 4350 be good for 140 grain nosler partitions and 160 grain nosler partitions but not 150 grains? All in same caliber of course.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601840
02/16/15 03:45 PM
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dee
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I know a few do that because they didn't find acceptable accuracy when testing so they omit it from the powder list.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601845
02/16/15 03:47 PM
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kmon11
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It was the Lee manual I was thinking of that orders the load by slowest to fastest max velocity.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5601893
02/16/15 04:05 PM
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kmon11
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Look at the starting load weights. For each cartridge and bullet weight the powders and its loads are listed in order of the lowest charge weight that resulted in the minimum pressure designated for that combination.
I had another question for Hornady so ask this question while on the phone.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: kmon11]
#5601922
02/16/15 04:18 PM
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redchevy
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It was the Lee manual I was thinking of that orders the load by slowest to fastest max velocity.
I believe speer does this as well.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: J.G.]
#5602010
02/16/15 04:53 PM
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tth_40
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I've noticed manuals scramble the powders and there seems to be no rhym or reason for doing so. Even seen a powder listed for a cartridge and bullet, the next page on a heavier bullet certain powders are gone. So off to Hodgdon.com I go. Yup. I do that too.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5602095
02/16/15 05:30 PM
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dawaba
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This is a perfect example of why every handloader should keep a veritable library of reloading manuals, both new and old. I have Lyman and Speer manuals going back to the mid-1960s, as well as current offerings. This way, I can average out the loads from several different sources and get a rough idea of the powder weights I will try. Perhaps the most useful info is the top velocity a load should achieve; then using my chronograph, I know that when I am approaching the top velocity, I am also getting close to the max load for my rifle.
In the OP's first photo, note that Hornady lists loads for both W760 and H414. These two powders are the SAME, made in the same factory, and the different recommended loads can only be explained by the techs using different production lots of powder. And if your manual lists loads for your favorite powder for 140 and 160 grain bullets, but not 150 gr, there's a good bet that another manual will have your load, or you can just extrapolate between the loads for the 140 and 160 grs. And again, your chronograph will usually tell you when you're getting warm by the velocity you're getting from your load.
And regarding the haphazard listing of the various powders, perhaps that is due to the sequence in which the powders were tested. There's certainly no other rhyme or reason.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: kmon11]
#5602106
02/16/15 05:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
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kmon11
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I agree on multiple sources and use of a Chronograph. Another reason in some instances not all loads were generated in the same barrel even for the same manual. Different barrels generate different pressures and is another reason various manuals differ so much along with most like different lots of powders used generating the data for a manual. All the more reason to start low and work up. Look at the starting load weights. For each cartridge and bullet weight the powders and its loads are listed in order of the lowest charge weight that resulted in the minimum pressure designated for that combination.
I had another question for Hornady so ask this question while on the phone.
Last edited by kmon1; 02/16/15 05:42 PM.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: dawaba]
#5602229
02/16/15 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
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blackcoal
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This is a perfect example of why every handloader should keep a veritable library of reloading manuals, both new and old. I have Lyman and Speer manuals going back to the mid-1960s, as well as current offerings. This way, I can average out the loads from several different sources and get a rough idea of the powder weights I will try. Perhaps the most useful info is the top velocity a load should achieve; then using my chronograph, I know that when I am approaching the top velocity, I am also getting close to the max load for my rifle.
In the OP's first photo, note that Hornady lists loads for both W760 and H414. These two powders are the SAME, made in the same factory, and the different recommended loads can only be explained by the techs using different production lots of powder. And if your manual lists loads for your favorite powder for 140 and 160 grain bullets, but not 150 gr, there's a good bet that another manual will have your load, or you can just extrapolate between the loads for the 140 and 160 grs. And again, your chronograph will usually tell you when you're getting warm by the velocity you're getting from your load.
And regarding the haphazard listing of the various powders, perhaps that is due to the sequence in which the powders were tested. There's certainly no other rhyme or reason. Agree. I pulled my Hornady Vol II published in 1973 and many of the questions asked in this specific post are answered between Pages 374-383. I am not good enough typist to type these answers, but it also explains Hornady reasoning. Interesting read and confirmed most of what I remembered.
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: wp75169]
#5613787
02/23/15 01:20 AM
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ChadTRG42
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The powders are usually listed in the Hornady manual with the fastest powders at the top and the slowest powders at the bottom. They may skip a few powders for certain bullets, but that is the general order.
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: redchevy]
#5613856
02/23/15 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
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5 Stand Dan
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Sometimes it irks me that in my nosler manual they will have a load for the powder im using listed for a 140 grain bullet and a 160 grain of the same cal, but they don't show that powder for the 150's. In this case it just means they have not tested that combination, if a powder, say IMR 4350 shows a load for 140 gr and 160 gr, you can use it in a 150 gr. Look at the max charge for a 140 and 160 and pick a point in the middle. From there back of 10% and give it a go. One good thing about the Nosler manual, they show what their most accurate load was. Keep in mind they are using hand lapped button rifled barrels, and notice the barrel length. Longer is faster, hand lapped is faster.
Last edited by 5 Stand Dan; 02/23/15 04:31 AM.
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Re: Hornady reloading manual question
[Re: 5 Stand Dan]
#5613919
02/23/15 02:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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Sometimes it irks me that in my nosler manual they will have a load for the powder im using listed for a 140 grain bullet and a 160 grain of the same cal, but they don't show that powder for the 150's. In this case it just means they have not tested that combination, if a powder, say IMR 4350 shows a load for 140 gr and 160 gr, you can use it in a 150 gr. Look at the max charge for a 140 and 160 and pick a point in the middle. From there back of 10% and give it a go. One good thing about the Nosler manual, they show what their most accurate load was. Keep in mind they are using hand lapped button rifeld barrels, and notice the barrel length. Longer is faster, hand lapped is faster. Good stuff!
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