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Just heard about this one
#5593117
02/11/15 12:51 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,709
huntandfish
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,709 |
Just heard the atf has reversed its decision about the sig brace. If its shouldered, its a sbr and needs a stamp. Article was from last month, but haven't heard anything about it. Have a friend who bought one thats pissed. Guess he should of used the cost of a brace to do a sbr. Don't know if it can hold water if just by shouldering it redesigns it, seems it would be hard to hold up in court but who wants to try first? http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/18/anothe...ilizing-braces/
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5593135
02/11/15 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
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Exactly why I never bought one of those things.
Had a feeling it would turn into a pain. Sucks, but finding out whether it holds up will be expensive for anyone that tries.
Last edited by Gravytrain; 02/11/15 01:13 AM.
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5593233
02/11/15 02:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,481
BCJ
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I would think it would be an easy conviction in court with a simple photo of the accused shoulder firing a firearm with a barrel under 16". It only cost $200 for the stamp to play the game right instead trying to work around the rules
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: Gravytrain]
#5593238
02/11/15 02:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 41,173 |
Had a feeling it would turn into a pain. Sucks, but finding out whether it holds up will be expensive for anyone that tries.
Exactly my thinking.
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5593255
02/11/15 02:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 632
Tim9880
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That ruling is odd... kinda says if you fire a pistol with two hands you have "redesigned" it and are a felon.
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: Tim9880]
#5593281
02/11/15 02:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 366
Ace_Inthe_O
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 366 |
Apparently it's all about intent if you intended to make an SBR and instead bought a brace and used it as such then you are breaking the law. If you bought a pistol then happened to shoulder your pistol that is not illegal. Not advocating to try this out not worth messing with the ATF
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: Ace_Inthe_O]
#5593460
02/11/15 04:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
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Apparently it's all about intent if you intended to make an SBR and instead bought a brace and used it as such then you are breaking the law. If you bought a pistol then happened to shoulder your pistol that is not illegal. Not advocating to try this out not worth messing with the ATF ^This. The key word is "intent". “[a]ny person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA.” The reason they released the statement is because they kept getting letters from people (it boiled down to one specific person when they sent out the release) asking if it was OK to build a pistol with the Sig brace and shoulder it. If you build a pistol with the intent to shoulder it, then you are not building a pistol per the ATF definition. As long as the intent is to build a pistol with the intent to use it as a pistol, then you are legal. If you happen to shoulder it later, then that's not the issue. The issue is the builder's intent when building the weapon. If you don't tell anyone anything about your plans, then it can be assumed your intent is a legal pistol with a Sig brace attached.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5593491
02/11/15 05:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 632
Tim9880
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Eh. The letter states:
"The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked."
so "use" of the brace, not "intent to use" is deemed a "redesign."
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5593541
02/11/15 06:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
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Well, then it sucks for those who spent money on one.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5593675
02/11/15 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,198
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,198 |
Should have just done it the right way to begin with.. The price of the brace pays for the stamp and they're at a 1 month wait at the moment. Never understood doing something halfass like this. No one that buys a sig brace uses it for its intended purpose. Everyone uses it as a wonnabe SBR option. Not sure why the ATF ever authorized this thing in the first place they knew what people would use it for.
Of course I don't think SBR's should be regulated in the first place but that's another story.
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5594013
02/11/15 04:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,991
Varget 7-08
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5602441
02/16/15 07:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
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once you have a stamped SBR, what are your foregrip options?
Just the AFG?
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5602496
02/16/15 08:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199
tth_40
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I still don't see how shouldering that brace constitutes a "redesign" when the physical properties of the stock remain unchanged.
That's like saying you've "redesigned" a screwdriver if you use it as a scraper.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5602502
02/16/15 08:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 632
Tim9880
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^^^ Which is why the ruling is so scary. Technically shooting your glock with a common two handed grip would constitute a "redesign" under this and make it an "aow," and you a criminal.
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5602656
02/16/15 09:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,439
TFF Caribou
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I've seen several in the classifieds the last 2 days. Hadn't seen one for sale here in a while. People trying to sell them before word gets out.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5602668
02/16/15 09:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275
jeepercreeper
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275 |
Check out the EE on arfcom. There are tons for sale. It was a stupid gimmick to begin with and still a stupid gimmick.
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: KRoyal]
#5602681
02/16/15 09:42 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
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Of course I don't think SBR's should be regulated in the first place but that's another story.
Suppressors either
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: SingleShot85]
#5602815
02/16/15 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
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Of course I don't think SBR's should be regulated in the first place but that's another story.
Suppressors either If the wind happened to be blowing another direction a few years ago, I could see a world where suppressors would be required by law.
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: Gravytrain]
#5603493
02/17/15 03:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
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once you have a stamped SBR, what are your foregrip options?
Just the AFG? Whatever foregrip you want with an SBR. Restrictions were only on pistols.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Just heard about this one
[Re: huntandfish]
#5603564
02/17/15 03:45 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 856
shumpertdavid
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Tracker
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I bought a sig brace to use with 300 BO pistol build. I may SBR later if I like the pistol, until then I'll use the brace "as intended" in the privacy of my own shooting areas
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