Why can't both go hand in hand?

The day I bought my 5x18 I had intended on buying another brand entirely. I listened to the manager of my LGS and decided on the ATN X Sight. I was in my LGS again a few days ago and talked to this fellow again. I explained the base plate was out of line from the scope, the floating reticle, the flickering screen and the massive battery drain,He was surprised at the issues that were going on. He stated that it had such a clear picture but admitted that he hadn't installed it on a rifle or tried to zero it in yet. I was playing with the scope again this same night trying the shimming thing and realized that the illuminator only had one setting, ON. adjusted the lens and pushed the + or - which had absolutely no effect. That doesn't bother me at the moment and perhaps it's another topic, anyways, the manager asked me to be patient and he would do some checking around as he knew of a few guys that had bought one and didn't think they had had any issues, quite honestly I would be surprised if I am told anything different than what has been mentioned in this thread. I still haven't decided if I am going to return mine or not. Had I known what I know now I would not have bought this scope. Way to many issues out of the box. However, dammit, I like the scope. I think all of us on this thread are being very patient and respectful to ATN at the moment when most would have said screw this. I also think SachalATN has been trying to keep everyone updated the best he can. Just hope I am not disappointed or let down with the fixes/ updates. I had hoped to have all this taken care of before my hog hunt...probably not going to happen though. Dang!!!!!

It sure would be nice that ATN would give us a discount on the Sun Shade as that would be a nice bone for us since we were basically beta testers or as the Pres. Of ATN calls us early adopters of the product. I will be really disappointed if I find out the sun shade s are included with new 5 x in a couple months. I guess we shall see if this is going to be a fiftty dollar upgrade for us. Just food for thought. I do realize that we have other issues you all want fixed but this is the quickest fix for better color resolution as I proved that to myself yesterday with a umbrella.

Sachal,

All I ask is that you please let us know when the new batch of 3-12x units pass QC testing and start getting shipped.

Also, out of curiosity, could you give us some insight into the QC process itself? How are units selected for testing? (IE: Of course, it's random, but HOW is the random selection done) What's your sample rate? (1 in 3? 1 in 10? 1 in 100?). What are the types of checklists the QC testers must go through? How are new tests introduced, and customer feedback implemented?

I know this is revealing quite a bit about how your business operates, but I think the benefits of this openness with your customers would greatly offset the drawbacks of your competitors learning about how you operate.

Thanks

I dont really see ATN releasing any of the info you requested with the exception of the 3x units being shipped. Most of what your asking for would be nothing but ammo for other companies to use against them.
The offset still wouldnt be worth it them IMO. Granted they have been slow wth the information and the updates , they are slowly getting around to correcting the issues, granted they are not in the order I see they should be but at least they are addressing them.

In my opinion, that's exactly why they need to do it. If giving their competitors 'ammunition' concerns them, then the obvious benefit of being open about the process, would be to show how they are adapting to service the customer better. *IF* they are adapting properly, they prove they are agile and capable of handling adversity - this is a positive thing. The only reason at all to be closed-lipped about their process, would be if they are NOT adapting properly, and worse yet, know that they are not. Making the process transparent keeps a company honest. Honest companies are trustworthy. Trustworthy companies gain loyal customers.

It all goes back to the concepts I pointed out previously. These core values DO work. They DO make money. A company must truly believe in them, though, to make it work for them. Either they already do, and are willing to be open about it... or they don't yet believe in them, and, well... we the consumers need to see it for what it is. That then puts the company in the position of making the choice. "Do we want a reputation for honesty, or do we not care?"

If they choose to be open, that then shines a light on their competitors. If they are open, and their competitors are not, consumers will naturally ask "These guys will tell us, Why won't you? What are you hiding?".

See where I'm going with this?

You don't have to give away trade secrets, or proprietary design elements, to show your process openly. Good practices are good practices, and generally universal.

Sachal, do you know about what time today ATN will release the new firmware?

Sachal what is the avg time for a rma fix/replacement? my 5x was received at your plant on 6th of Jan as when I received it it was DOA.

And yes, welcome to all the new guys!

Welcome Mo

LOL, Hi!

You can tell we're just waiting for someone to post something cool or discussion worthy about the X-Sight!

Yea, like new firmware posted. NOT!!!

The odds were never that great on that happening. Just keep telling yourself: "This is like the Windows 95 launch. I should expect, neé, I ASKED for these broken promises." Am I getting it now, Mo?

Did you really think they would release on a Sunday? Odds are against it as well as their track record.

Awe common guys, gotta have some faith. Lol

I'd go on the previous update which came a day later than they said. Maybe tomorrow?
Keep asking if it'll be tomorrow and maybe one day it'll be right!

Close. It's more like "It's -going- to be unstable. Things are -going- to not work right. I need to expect that things will randomly screw up, and it'll take a while to fix."

BUT - what no one expected (not even me, and not even ATN) was the order of magnitude. Big software companies like Microsoft understand software development cycles, and they can anticipate potential letdowns, and mitigate them.

What a lot of the public didn't factor into their expectations, is that this was a company who had never done -this kind- of work before. It's not their fault, because this is new territory for anybody. Now, if SONY decided to build a digital riflescope, you might have seen a smoother rollout - from the tech side. Not from the rifle-scope side.

Analogy: It's like taking a guy who's built a kit car in his garage, and suddenly telling him to go build an Formula 1 car. It's an order of magnitude more challenging, with problems he hasn't even considered. It isn't his fault. He just doesn't know what things he doesn't know, until he stumbles. An experienced Indy car team would already know, but he has to learn the hard way. Even if he were to ask experienced Formula 1 Car builders for advice, he'd still have trouble making it reliable and safe, for a while. Eventually, if he sticks with it, survives the stumbles, and learns from it - he'll become one of the experienced Formula 1 Car builders.

Let's take this one step further. Let's take away this car builder's hundreds of millions of dollars in development budget, and the 2-4 Million dollar price of each car, and make him build it for the same cost as a Corvette. High end, but priced so 'normal people' can afford it.

Basically, that's what ATN is doing.

Now, ATN has done some good Thermal stuff, which probably has some of these features. In the above analogy, that's less like a Kit Car builder, and more like a Dirt Track race team. They know racing and they know cars, but never a -Formula 1- magnitude car. Thermal scopes out there right now are still way different than throwing all this high tech gear in the package, and then literally building a miniature computer to make it all work, and auto-calculate things for you. It's an order of magnitude more complicated, and that brings challenges no one stepping into this territory for the first time would know right away.

So I'll wrap up my comparison by comparing the ONLY 2 products that exist in this category right now.
Compare the features (and the amount of time spent in development) to the cost to buy the unit.

Formula 1 Car:
TrackingPoint Precision Guided 5.56 AR
MSRP Cost: $7,495
Effective Range: Up to 580 Yards

Corvette:
ATN X-Sight -- Smart HD Weapon Sight
MSRP Cost: $629-$749
Effective Range: Up to 300-ish yards.

I would be willing to bet the Corvette never shipped with wheels that didn't point straight down the road.

--Cough!--

GM issues Two Stop-Delivery Orders on 2015 Corvette Stinray

You would be wrong.

moshooter, I understand software development but if you advertise one thing and send a partial that's a big problem. I sell homes for a living, do you really think if I advertise the home has central air and when you buy it there is no central air. I would be sued in a hart beat. Another example: you buy a car and they tell you your gonna get a nice set of rims and you end up getting the stock rims. You will be all over them. I bought a scope and I expect to get what you advertise. I understand you backing them up and that's fine if you are good with what you received. But I'm not. Some of us really want this to work, however some of us have a limited time frame on returning the scope for a refund if they don't get it right. I really like the idea of this scope and I've been working thru issues with mine. If Atn says they are going to release a update it needs to be done. Period!!