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Taking your own dog
#5537730
01/12/15 06:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
OP
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OP
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I would have paid Pointer to take Cracker on some of those recent trips. I'm not getting out as much as I once did. I know several people who have some very good bird dogs, and get invited to south Texas hunts, then told not to bring their dogs because the handlers of the hired dogs would not want them included.
That sounds like a crock to me. Those handlers love good dog worlk as much as you or I. I would and have insisted. I put my Cookie down in front of an outfitter several years ago. She pointed 6 coveys in 20 minutes. We had beer with the outfitter that night. He asked if we had any culls. I got invited to the exon lease where Delmer Smith was outfitting. He didn't want any other dogs. I didn't go.
What's your take? Pros speak up.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5537796
01/12/15 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
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No pro but I would take a dog or two with me from people that I knew that wanted to get their dogs on birds. Not always easy to do and likewise I would allow my dog to how with someone else to hunt if I couldn't.
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5537804
01/12/15 07:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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OP
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Would you go on a hunt with a pro without your dog?
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5537835
01/12/15 07:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,523
changedmyname
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I wouldn't. I would rather gain experience with my dog on public and shoot one bird than hunt without him and get a limit.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5537846
01/12/15 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,559
reeltexan
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If my dogs aren't going, I'm not going.
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." Ronald Reagan
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: reeltexan]
#5537920
01/12/15 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
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If my dogs aren't going, I'm not going.
Pretty much the same but if I was invited to an awesome ranch I probably would leave the dog once just to have the experience/fun.
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538030
01/12/15 08:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,966
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,966 |
My V Dash has left me to hunt with pros. He spent about a month this season away from me on loan for a bird hunting trip to Montana. All his hunts there both public and private were assisted by a local guide and with other dogs. It was difficult for me, but I welcomed the experience for him.
As for the question, it depends on the circumstance. My dog is also used as a waterfowl retriever but if everyone brings their retriever on a group hunt it can be too much. I may not use my dog with the group, but my dog is going on the trip and almost always going to be hunted by me at another location the day before or after. Upland is different as it is not unusual for dogs to hunt together or be rotated.
Still I can understand being respectful if I am the guest, and it is the landowner or hosts wishes the guests not to use their own dogs on a hunt. Especially with mixed groups and people they do not know. I can usually feel that out without asking. And there are hunters on this forum that will never hunt along side my dogs because I hunt fur and feather. I understand the issues and thats ok, but I am bringing my dog to hunt on my own and may leave the group a day or more early to do so if not on the way to and from. So I may or may not choose to go if my dog is not allowed on the actual hunt, but I will not go if my dog is not allowed to go on the trip. Nor will I go if I can't line up my own hunt with my dog public or private nearby.
That said, I am obviously not much of a guided hunt, hunt with pros kind of guy. I too would like to hear the guide/outfitter take on the situation.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538062
01/12/15 09:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657 |
I would have paid Pointer to take Cracker on some of those recent trips. I'm not getting out as much as I once did. I know several people who have some very good bird dogs, and get invited to south Texas hunts, then told not to bring their dogs because the handlers of the hired dogs would not want them included.
That sounds like a crock to me. Those handlers love good dog worlk as much as you or I. I would and have insisted. I put my Cookie down in front of an outfitter several years ago. She pointed 6 coveys in 20 minutes. We had beer with the outfitter that night. He asked if we had any culls. I got invited to the exon lease where Delmer Smith was outfitting. He didn't want any other dogs. I didn't go.
What's your take? Pros speak up. Bill agree with you 100%
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538074
01/12/15 09:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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Some people seem to think that the pros are all business and in it just for the money. They're not. They love their dogs just as much as we love ours. They also appreciate good dog work and like to see other dogs.
I would never run a non backing dog in on anyone. A friend had that happen last year. His young dog pointed a covey in the open. The pup ran in and started dancing around in the middle of the covey. The owner shot. The owner of the flushing pup was a good friend of the host who owned the pointing pup. He told me later that his friend would not be invited back. Sometimes the handlers are more of a problem that the errant pups. They have a remote in their hand.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538127
01/12/15 09:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,591
Pointer
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We always strive to please. The customers are paying for the trip. If you want your dog to hunt (of course you do!) we'll always try and make room for him on my truck. Now, that said, I am going to ask you to handle him. I am not going to ask you to handle my dogs, and I don't know your dog and don't want to try to handle him.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: Pointer]
#5538150
01/12/15 09:59 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,152
DoubleB20
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We always strive to please. The customers are paying for the trip. If you want your dog to hunt (of course you do!) we'll always try and make room for him on my truck. Now, that said, I am going to ask you to handle him. I am not going to ask you to handle my dogs, and I don't know your dog and don't want to try to handle him.
+1. I tell them to clear it with the folks in their group. I've had all kinds of experiences; from the "high power pointer" that ran flat out for half mile, crashed through a bar wire fence then had to go vet to the boot licker that wouldn't leave his owners side. It's all fun.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: reeltexan]
#5538160
01/12/15 10:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 976
rdh1
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
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If my dogs aren't going, I'm not going.
AMEN
Zeva,Buck & Sandy
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538166
01/12/15 10:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,966
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,966 |
I'm not a pro and not a purist, but I have owned a lot of different hunting dogs and i have hunted with a lot of forum members and their dogs. One thing I have noticed with people hunting their dog with others for the first time almost as if they are worried their dog will be judged, or do something wrong, or they seem overly critical of their own dog when it is not perfect.
I appreciate good dog work as much as anyone yet I will never judge another man's dog. It annoys me went i see someone criticising another man's dog on a hunt when it is not constructive. If I invite someone to hunt with me, I don't care how behind in training your dog is, how much it screws up, how young and stupid, or how old and slow it is. I will want and expect you to bring your dog and my dog will either adapt to your dog or hunt independently. No matter what your dog will go home thinking I am it's new best friend.
And my dog and I are never going to be pefect, so don't invite me in the first place if you expect us to be. As a versatile hunting dog guy, your pro is probably going to have a heart attack anyway when his dog backs mine and I shoot the Rabbit mine was pointing or the Squirrel he was treeing. No really as a guest or in a hunt test I would wave him off with a leave it, but if the pro is my guest, the fur dies. Like i said, not a pro kind of guy and hope I never move in that direction ever again.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: Sniper John]
#5538190
01/12/15 10:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,523
changedmyname
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I'm not a pro and not a purist, but I have owned a lot of different hunting dogs and i have hunted with a lot of forum members and their dogs. One thing I have noticed with people hunting their dog with others for the first time almost as if they are worried their dog will be judged, or do something wrong, or they seem overly critical of their own dog when it is not perfect.
I appreciate good dog work as much as anyone yet I will never judge another man's dog. It annoys me went i see someone criticising another man's dog on a hunt when it is not constructive. If I invite someone to hunt with me, I don't care how behind in training your dog is, how much it screws up, how young and stupid, or how old and slow it is. I will want and expect you to bring your dog and my dog will either adapt to your dog or hunt independently. No matter what your dog will go home thinking I am it's new best friend.
And my dog and I are never going to be pefect, so don't invite me in the first place if you expect us to be. As a vesatile hunting dog guy, your pro is probably going to have a heart attack anyway when his dog backs mine and I shoot the Rabbit mine was pointing or the Squirrel he was treeing. No really as a guest or in a hunt test I would wave him off with a leave it, but if the pro is my guest, the fur dies. Like i said, not a pro kind of guy and hope I never move in that direction ever again. I can attest to the first part. I was nervous about my dog when we hunted together. Not only because it was his first hunt outside of training with another dog but just because we (dog and I) are both new in general. I just don't want to accidentally step on toes or annoy anyone when I'm an invited guest. I think he did ok though.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538275
01/12/15 10:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,367
kindall
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Bill, I think its more of the pro not wanting a dog to mess up a paying customers hunt. Or have to tell that person/friend to pick the dog up, and have them get upset. Just less of a headache for them to run dogs they know.
Cash works for a outfitter on some weekends, I just get invited to handle him. He watched Cash work a few times, before ever asking me if I would bring him out for paid hunts.
Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden. Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: kindall]
#5538418
01/12/15 11:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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OP
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Bill, I think its more of the pro not wanting a dog to mess up a paying customers hunt. Or have to tell that person/friend to pick the dog up, and have them get upset. Just less of a headache for them to run dogs they know.
Cash works for a outfitter on some weekends, I just get invited to handle him. He watched Cash work a few times, before ever asking me if I would bring him out for paid hunts. Cash is a great dog. He would have won the first NSTRA trial he ran in if he would have retrieved. We're covering some plowed ground here but we've all been invited to bring our dogs for free and we lump on it. I invited a friend with his dogs to meet us there on a hunt up neat Thurber. His pointer went over my dogs back on three successive points. I was invited not to invite the friend back on the following year. There is never a good excuse for pups not backing since the e collar.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5538652
01/13/15 01:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
NorthTXbirdhunter
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Posts: 1,068 |
Amen on the e-collar and backing dog Bill.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5539064
01/13/15 03:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,367
kindall
Extreme Tracker
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I wouldn't say he's great. He's my buddy,and finds birds. That's good enough for me. I had him FF after that trial.
Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden. Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: changedmyname]
#5539491
01/13/15 12:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,448
stinkbelly
THF Trophy Hunter
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I wouldn't. I would rather gain experience with my dog on public and shoot one bird than hunt without him and get a limit. x2 I don't need the meat. I want the experience.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5539549
01/13/15 01:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 202
My best friend has a tail
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 202 |
If my dogs can not go on the hunt, then there is no need for me to go either. The biggest reason I have for still hunting is to see them enjoying themselves so much.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: reeltexan]
#5539651
01/13/15 02:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,219
CCBIRDDOGMAN
Bird Herder
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Bird Herder
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,219 |
If my dogs aren't going, I'm not going.
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5540031
01/13/15 04:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,901
blanked
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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i will go a step further. if i cant hunt my dog the whole time i wont go. rotating other peoples dogs in place of mine is a deal breaker
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5540062
01/13/15 04:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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OP
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I'm always willing to rotate. I'll go as far as picking mine up for known coveys along a fence line to give younger dogs more dog work. Cracker will get there first and she doesn't need the bird work.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5540100
01/13/15 05:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,482
Blanco
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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I think kinda like Kendall. Everyone thinks their dog is the greatest. I have seen quite a few folks claim to have a great dog only to witness a holy terror of an uncontrollable misfit. I'm sure most of the guys here have fantastic field trial quality pointers, BUT there's always that one guy.... I suppose if I was running the hunt I would say it would be ok for you to run your dog as long as it is under control. The first time it becomes a terrorist, back in the truck, and let them know that in no uncertain terms. Nothing better to ruin a hunt than an out of control dog and an owner that won't see or admit it.
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Re: Taking your own dog
[Re: bill oxner]
#5540851
01/13/15 10:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,725
tigger
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,725 |
I have picked up my dogs more than once because they were brain dead and I have told people to pick up their dog. Bragging on your dog is just like bragging on your kid. They will make a fool of you. When I was guiding I liked for the client to bring his dog. After watching birds being flushed they would not complain about the guiding and if his dogs did great he was beyond happy.
Last edited by tigger; 01/13/15 10:20 PM.
Tigger If it isn't white it is not a birddog.
KC Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy. _________________
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