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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5397017
11/03/14 11:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 412
Fishuhalik
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 412 |
You might not be able to tell a 4pt from a 5pt Or a 4.5 year old from a 6.5-7.5 year old. Or a 150 inch buck from a 165 inch buck. Or a nubbin' buck from a doe. Those things can be important if your managing whitetail. The more particular you're trying to be, the more important it is that you get a really good look. And let's be honest, in many of the places we're hunting in Texas, you have to look for a place to take a 600 yard shot. Now, if you know the deer from TC pics or have studied him up close before, that's different. Guys make those same mistakes on deer at 100m all the time.
Cigarettes are like hamsters. Perfectly harmless til you put it in your mouth & light it on fire
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5397022
11/03/14 11:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
You can watch impact at that range.....
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: stxranchman]
#5397023
11/03/14 11:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 412
Fishuhalik
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 412 |
My concern with it is not the kills but those "clean misses" that turn into wounded deer that die. That is even for those who are experienced. I'd be willing to bet if you took 50 hunters that are experienced long range shooters & stacked their kill-wound ratio up against 50 guys that only shoot under 200m, the long range hunters would have a better percentage. It all comes down to if you're qualified to take the shot or not. If the animal isn't at a range that you & your rifle can handle, then pass on it.
Cigarettes are like hamsters. Perfectly harmless til you put it in your mouth & light it on fire
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: Fishuhalik]
#5397042
11/03/14 11:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,830 |
You might not be able to tell a 4pt from a 5pt Or a 4.5 year old from a 6.5-7.5 year old. Or a 150 inch buck from a 165 inch buck. Or a nubbin' buck from a doe. Those things can be important if your managing whitetail. The more particular you're trying to be, the more important it is that you get a really good look. And let's be honest, in many of the places we're hunting in Texas, you have to look for a place to take a 600 yard shot. Now, if you know the deer from TC pics or have studied him up close before, that's different. Guys make those same mistakes on deer at 100m all the time. Sure, but not because the animal is too far away to clearly judge.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5397079
11/04/14 12:10 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216
kyle1974
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216 |
back in the old days when I was guiding, the first order of business was to have all the guests shoot their rifles to make sure they were sighted in.
these are approximations, but in the couple hundred I witnessed, I'd guess 50-60% had to make adjustments to their guns, and easily 25% had a hard time shooting any group at all (less than 4 inches), at 100 yards, off a caldwell rest.
no offense to the resident coonasses here, but I always cringed when those louisiana boys showed up with their remington 7400 autoloaders... I can still hear it in a heavy south louisiana accent "just aim center of mass there Boudreau, them guides got a good tracking dog!"
I can't imagine the general public shooting at 500-600 yards. I would be a nervous wreck calling out the right deer at 250 yards, much less 450.
Last edited by kyle1974; 11/04/14 12:11 AM.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5397120
11/04/14 12:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 412
Fishuhalik
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 412 |
You might not be able to tell a 4pt from a 5pt Or a 4.5 year old from a 6.5-7.5 year old. Or a 150 inch buck from a 165 inch buck. Or a nubbin' buck from a doe. Those things can be important if your managing whitetail. The more particular you're trying to be, the more important it is that you get a really good look. And let's be honest, in many of the places we're hunting in Texas, you have to look for a place to take a 600 yard shot. Now, if you know the deer from TC pics or have studied him up close before, that's different. Guys make those same mistakes on deer at 100m all the time. Sure, but not because the animal is too far away to clearly judge. Nope. It's because of poor training & practice. Which is my point. It all comes down to training & usually (I stress usually) guys that take those long shots train quite a bit. A lot more than most weekend warriors that are happy hitting a paper plate at 50m with the ol' open sights 30-30 that gramps handed down to em.
Cigarettes are like hamsters. Perfectly harmless til you put it in your mouth & light it on fire
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5397148
11/04/14 12:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,063
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,063 |
The reason I asked the original question is because we had an "experienced, accomplished" long range hunter try a hell of a trophy long range and wounded it. The deer was a trophy of a lifetime on low fence and we got very lucky a dog found it. Hunter had his reasons for the poor shot but basically boiled down to miscalculation of distance. I assure you it won't happen again on our lease. For every guy who thinks he is a pro at it under stressful conditions my bet is there are more woundings than not.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: Fishuhalik]
#5397152
11/04/14 12:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,830 |
And my point is that training, practice and equipment wont change the fact that humans see better when objects are closer. If your operating in a world where inches matter, you have a better chance of misjudging a deer as it gets further away.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5397180
11/04/14 12:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,073
bdotson
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,073 |
I recall getting flamed here pretty good about 5 or 6 years ago on this same subject. Distance hunting is not new. I love it just got out of my stand tonight watched three spots 600 1000 and 1200 yds also some closer places down to 100 yds. I do this to please me. It is all about what a person wants to do. http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/452692/1
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: kyle1974]
#5397254
11/04/14 01:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601 |
back in the old days when I was guiding, the first order of business was to have all the guests shoot their rifles to make sure they were sighted in.
these are approximations, but in the couple hundred I witnessed, I'd guess 50-60% had to make adjustments to their guns, and easily 25% had a hard time shooting any group at all (less than 4 inches), at 100 yards, off a caldwell rest.
no offense to the resident coonasses here, but I always cringed when those louisiana boys showed up with their remington 7400 autoloaders... I can still hear it in a heavy south louisiana accent "just aim center of mass there Boudreau, them guides got a good tracking dog!"
I can't imagine the general public shooting at 500-600 yards. I would be a nervous wreck calling out the right deer at 250 yards, much less 450. Very true
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: bdotson]
#5397271
11/04/14 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,063
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,063 |
I recall getting flamed here pretty good about 5 or 6 years ago on this same subject. Distance hunting is not new. I love it just got out of my stand tonight watched three spots 600 1000 and 1200 yds also some closer places down to 100 yds. I do this to please me. It is all about what a person wants to do. http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/452692/1 . That is your right and I respect it. But you will never hunt on our lease which is my right. Good luck to you
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: kyle1974]
#5399269
11/05/14 03:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
back in the old days when I was guiding, the first order of business was to have all the guests shoot their rifles to make sure they were sighted in.
these are approximations, but in the couple hundred I witnessed, I'd guess 50-60% had to make adjustments to their guns, and easily 25% had a hard time shooting any group at all (less than 4 inches), at 100 yards, off a caldwell rest.
no offense to the resident coonasses here, but I always cringed when those louisiana boys showed up with their remington 7400 autoloaders... I can still hear it in a heavy south louisiana accent "just aim center of mass there Boudreau, them guides got a good tracking dog!"
I can't imagine the general public shooting at 500-600 yards. I would be a nervous wreck calling out the right deer at 250 yards, much less 450. That's a real-world post. Not keyboard bravado.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5399287
11/05/14 03:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609 |
Id shoot at a hog at 800 yds LOL but wouldn't want to shoot at a deer much over 200-250.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5399777
11/05/14 01:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 511
ddmm
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 511 |
to each his own...we've got neighbors down at the ranch that can't make a clean kill inside of 100 yds.! Came over Sunday asking if they could go up the property and look for another deer..... I don't tell folks how to vote, who to have sex with or how to shoot deer....none of my business.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5399844
11/05/14 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,743
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,743 |
My gut feeling is that shooting deer at very long range is bad. If someone wants to prove what a great and accomplished shooter they are, punch paper. I have no great and impassioned reasoning why it's wrong, but it's something that just gives me a bad feeling.
If I watched you shoot a deer at 1000 yards, I wouldn't be anything more than vaguely upset. Just because you can does not mean that you should.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5399920
11/05/14 02:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466
Jkd106
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466 |
My longest shot was 418 on a mule deer, I would have rather been at a 100, but shadowed this deer for a long time. I belly crawled, had cactus from head to toe . Finally came to the edge of a canyon, could not close the gap any more. I had good optics, range finder, and ballistic chart. I had practiced out to 400 for this very scenario, and felt comfortable with it. There was very little wind, and had a great rest on a back pack. Made the shot, and it was a very ethical kill. Hope I never have to shoot that far again, but I would. What people should realize is a small flinch or pull at the muzzle can be a huge movement down range.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5400492
11/05/14 05:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,743
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,743 |
Well, I grumped about long range hunting, but I have on occasion done just that. And if Jkd106 belly crawled though cactus to get to be able to make the shot, that does impress me. That's hunting in its purest form. And 400 yards isn't what I'd call long range hunting anyway, though it's on the far edge of what I consider reasonable (reasonable for ME) for deer hunting.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5400760
11/05/14 07:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466
Jkd106
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,466 |
I did, had to stop several times, to get a sticker out and bite my tongue. Last eve of mule deer season and I really wanted that deer. That was prob the most fun I have ever had, took about 4 hours from sitting behind spotting scope to getting that shot. I would do it again. I'm not sure what was worse the cactus or the sand burrs.lol
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5400789
11/05/14 07:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
The reason I asked the original question is because we had an "experienced, accomplished" long range hunter try a hell of a trophy long range and wounded it. The deer was a trophy of a lifetime on low fence and we got very lucky a dog found it. Hunter had his reasons for the poor shot but basically boiled down to miscalculation of distance. I assure you it won't happen again on our lease. For every guy who thinks he is a pro at it under stressful conditions my bet is there are more woundings than not.
So i assume you are against archery hunting as well.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: dee]
#5400887
11/05/14 08:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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The reason I asked the original question is because we had an "experienced, accomplished" long range hunter try a hell of a trophy long range and wounded it. The deer was a trophy of a lifetime on low fence and we got very lucky a dog found it. Hunter had his reasons for the poor shot but basically boiled down to miscalculation of distance. I assure you it won't happen again on our lease. For every guy who thinks he is a pro at it under stressful conditions my bet is there are more woundings than not.
So i assume you are against archery hunting as well. Bogus generalization I grow tired of hearing. I would assume that, like any reasonable person, he is against anyone taking a shot they are not capable of making just because there is an animal they want to kill somewhere in front of them. Give me a buck at 20 yards with my bow and I will beat the ever-lovin' pants off 90+ % of the guys shooting a rifle at one beyond 400 yards. Carrying a weapon that goes boom and will sling a bullet 1000 yards plus doesn't make one a more efficient killer than an archery hunter....
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 11/05/14 08:44 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5401013
11/05/14 09:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,073
bdotson
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,073 |
Is it not standard practice to wait after shooting a deer with a bow? Why? is it so in the event of a poor placed shot the deer can die a slow death and not be able to jump and run if you chase him? Would it not be better to wait till gun season if you feel that way? But with a rifle one should make a clean kill instant death. This is only if it is a deer, A pig or a coyote you can wound or miss and it would not matter? I have a hard time following this train of thought. I don't think everyone with a gun that will shoot 700 yds should go out and shoot deer at that range. But if that is you game by all means do it. In the end there will be several animals shot,missed and wounded at all distance with both bow and gun. I think There are some who just don't like what they don't understand or cant do them self. Each person owes it to the animal they hunt to try and make clean kills. Shoot what you will at whatever distance YOU feel you can if its a mile so be it. and I do bow hunt also.
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5401355
11/06/14 12:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
The reason I asked the original question is because we had an "experienced, accomplished" long range hunter try a hell of a trophy long range and wounded it. The deer was a trophy of a lifetime on low fence and we got very lucky a dog found it. Hunter had his reasons for the poor shot but basically boiled down to miscalculation of distance. I assure you it won't happen again on our lease. For every guy who thinks he is a pro at it under stressful conditions my bet is there are more woundings than not.
So i assume you are against archery hunting as well. Bogus generalization I grow tired of hearing. I would assume that, like any reasonable person, he is against anyone taking a shot they are not capable of making just because there is an animal they want to kill somewhere in front of them. Give me a buck at 20 yards with my bow and I will beat the ever-lovin' pants off 90+ % of the guys shooting a rifle at one beyond 400 yards. Carrying a weapon that goes boom and will sling a bullet 1000 yards plus doesn't make one a more efficient killer than an archery hunter.... Not bogus. Practiced and comfortable or not a deer can and will jump the string. It happens far more often than most admit or see. How many of those are hit or missed clean? Same goes for the guys that try to head shoot deer. Each type of hunting has it's own variables that play factors. Archery and long range share more in common than the others. Distance and wind are two huge factors that affect both along with animal movement.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Long range shooting trophy deer
[Re: tlk]
#5402034
11/06/14 04:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351
ImBillT
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351 |
Even if you're capable of making shots at 600 yards, you're going to have a hard time field judging deer at that range no matter how good your optics are. Would be does turn out to be nubbin bucks. Would be monster bucks turn out to be not so monsterish.
that is a good point - judging a deer at long distance is difficult at best - After shooting two "monsters" that turned out to be missing a lot of the antler I had seen when pulling the trigger, I'd say that's the biggest problem. There was no question that they were legal deer , but judgin quality at range is just not easy.
Last edited by ImBillT; 11/06/14 04:43 AM.
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