How many of you know the guy that has read every article about the perfect rifle and what it supposedly takes to make one shoot, has spent thousands of dollars on custom work and optics when he should have been spending time learning how to shoot and his money on practice rounds? I've met that guy more than once, on the range and in the hunting camp.....

I only have 2 $1000+ rifles and the both shoot better than I can. Still sub MOA. Then again I have a $400 savage that shoots better than the expensive guns. Go figure.

I am 70 yrs old and I can tell ya that my eye sight is just MOA . I have some guns that will still let me shoot sub MOA but the rig is helping a lot.

Rusty

Everyone has to start somewhere.... Doing research and reading up on what it takes is a big component of it. Just because someone cant put everything that it takes to shoot 1000 yards into action doesn't mean that they don't understand the concepts or are learning more about it everyday. The internet is an amazing research tool and being I did not grow up hunting or shooting for that matter most everything I learn about this new hobby of mine is from reading what others know about it on the internet. Also I just built a custom long range gun.... between optics and all the rifle components I have alot of money tied up in that weapon. But tell me this....Is $2500- $3000 tied up in one rifle that I use for everything any different than having multiple rifles and or handguns? Ive got friends that talk crap about having one rifle and optic cost so much yet they have more guns than they could ever realistically use and have way more invested in weapons than my single rifle and handgun cost.

What exactly is MOA ... ;-) Mostly On A big target..

I am happy when I get my Marlin 22WMR grouping under an inch at 100yrds. Only had it happen twice. One of these days I will have a big enough wallet, a need to learn to shoot passed the point where the bullet starts to drop, and the time to dedicate to the art. Until then I plink like a kid.

Have seen it a lot. Some are better shooters than others without s doubt. Some days I shoot better than others as well. Have several rifles that I know most days can out shoot me.

I always take one of them out to the range when working up loads so I can check how I am shooting that day.

I am in the school of thought that you can't know too much about shooting and guns. I also think that you shouldn't tell anyone everything you are thinking about. Spending too much on shooting is all a matter of perspective. Go bass fishing look around and see how many 30k boats are at the ramp every morning. Havent seen many 30k rifles but I have seen some pricey trap guns. Spend your money however you want to.

Rusty, I am a generation younger and couldn't have said it better. If I could jave afforded my rigs 30 years ago I can only imagine...

I've read this a couple of times trying to figure out what "rig" you guys are talking about. What am I missing?

Rusty, I'm also 70 yoa and a lot of things in my body don't work like they used to.

Someone one this forum always says accuracy is over rated.
To me, accuracy is everything.
If a rifle won't shoot MOA, I move on unless I genuinely love it for what it is.

Just because the rifle can shoot MOA doesn't mean anything if it doesn't have the required terminal ballistics to accomplish the task at hand.

As for me shooting, I have my days and they are still mostly good.
Strangely as it seems, I have been hunting for so long, I usually shoot very well while hunting.
Sometimes on the bench, after a couple of shots with one of my proven guns, I find I'm wasting ammo and quit for the day.


That being said, MOST of the guns I own shoot better than me...but like I said, I like and build them accurate.

I sort of agree with the OP. I'll extend that further and say there people, ironically mostly guys, who just read things online and deem themselves to be experts. What makes it all the wierder in my experiences is that they generally won't listen to a person they know in real life because they read something else online.
AND what really annoys me is when these people refer to reading up online as "research." My friend does research. He conducts experiments, reads books, scientific articles, talks to experts, etc. That's research. Even my 12 yr old nephew reading books on dinosaurs to write an essay is doing research. Only reading internet opinions or anonymous folks on forums, NOT research.

I have to agree that reading on the Internet is NOT valid research. Everything that's true can be found there, but so can everything that is not. Considering the opinions of others is not necessarily a bad thing, but separating the wheat from the chaff can be a real challenge.

As far as being a sub-MOA shooter...I don't think anyone can shoot like that off-hand. If shooters like that exist they are certainly rare. Learning to improvise and use a rest is as much a part of shooting as learning trigger control though.

All the money in the world spent on equipment does nothing to make a marksman. Practice with reasonably accurate arms does.

Sub MOA groups are certainly really cool and it kinda makes your pecker move when a new rifle prints a tiny group, but what really matters is that your rifle puts it's cold-bore shot where you tell it to.

I see it all the time. I've even taken guys to the range with $3K+ rifles and custom ammo I made to that rifle. I'll get the rifle on target at 500 hitting dead center and let them shoot. Then they can't even hit the target, and think somethings wrong. Then I'll shoot it again and put several rounds on top of the first rounds I shot. I've done this multiple times with customers. You have to know how to "drive" the rifle. I compare it to Tony Stewart driving vs. a 16 yr old just getting behind the wheel.

Most rifles will out shoot the shooter. When observing targets in a competition and it's a full size Larue at whatever distance, it's interesting seeing how many shooters can actually make contact on the first round.

Well, it's fortunate that people enjoy their hobbies/sports and have the means to pursue them no matter the cost of the tools involved. The same blanket can cover just about anything I guess, golfers with the latest and greatest that can't make contact with the ball, fishermen that have every gadget known to man but never weigh-in a fish, on and on. But it's great that we are lucky enough to be in a society that has these opportunities and products available. "Practice" & "Enjoy"....

I have zero $1000 dollar pluss guns and my shooting varies. About 5 years ago I got into hand loading and the amount of shooting I did skyrockedted, I shot better than I ever had in my entire life. Unfortunately college doesnt last forever and with a new wife house payment and job my free time has sliped away so to say and I do good to load enough bullets to get me my dad and brother through the season and check the site before going. I can see a definate decline in my shooting and I dont like it but dont really have the time to do anything about it. Im still killin my critters so its ok.

^^this^^

10ring, the answer to your question is yes. But it is because of what RiverRider said. Lots of practice is why I can do what I can do. That and the attitude that I always have something to learn and I always need to keep practicing.

Agreed.... It sure is nice tho to be able to do all the things we are able to do in this country.

The OP hit on something that confuses me too. There are people who, for whatever reason, will put a lot of money into a weapon but (presumably) never shoot it.

The lack of range reports on here really is a head scratcher.
- Is it because people talk about the rifles they want or the scope they want but don't actually buy them?
- Is it because they don't want people to see how well they shoot?
- They are intimidated of going to the range?
- Is it too expensive to shoot the guns they have?
- They think hitting paper once a year is good enough to get ready for deer season?
I'm really curious about this.

I don't shoot a lot but I go about 4-5 times a year to shoot my rifles and when I do I always shoot for groups because that is how you know you can consistently hit your target. I just bought a Savage .22LR that will be getting me to the range more often.

Maybe my problem is that I don't get to hunt deer because I can't afford a lease. This year I did have a friend invite me out to hunt (no bait, no blind, just hide in the brush) a couple times that we were not able to get a deer. We only saw one young buck we let pass.


I have demonstrated my ability to shoot >MOA with 2 of my 3 hunting rifles and I have another that needed a tune-up and I hope to prove it's accuracy the next time out too.

My rifles are definitively capable. I'm the one who shoots
poorly when it happens, no doubt about it. And if it's not
my shooting, it's something else stupid I'm doing like letting
a scope mount get loose or not tightening down my action
properly.

The most important thing hasnt even been mentioned is emotion. Lots of guys can take their fancy or not so fancy rifle and punch paper all day with precision accuracy off a benchrest. But when it comes time to kill something they get all sorts of flustered and blow the shot. Shooting at paper that aint moving is one thing getting caught off guard from a good buck at last light thats on the move and having to place an accurate shot before he disappears seems to be the biggest challenge. Cant count how many times I heard that line from guys on my lease this year.

True, but how many of those guys have put in enough time at a range to be confident in their abilities? Sure, I'd get excited about seeing a huge buck and that would affect my shooting a little, but the affect would be a lot less if I was confident I can consistently put my round where I'm aiming from a variety of distances.

I've seen alot of guys that can shoot well at the range when glued to a bench punching paper that cant hit the broadside of a barn when they're excited. How many times have you heard..."I was so exited I was trying to get my rifle up and I hit the inside of the blind with the barrel"? Really...is it that hard to lift the rifle up an insert the barrel carefully through the opening of your window to get ready for a shot.....No its just that emotion clouded their thinking.

How important is it to have a sub MOA rifle. To me it's not all that important. I have a 7x57 and a 30-06 commercial FN mausers made in the early '50s. They are basicall stock, except for timney triggers and Boyds stocks. I have a little over $1100 in both guns. Both have shot under MOA, but average around 1.25". My Semi-custom Zastava, with a heavy sporter 280 barrel very rarely shoots over an inch.
A friend who is a newbe has a a stock 308 and a 30-06 SPS, that shoot consistently 3/4" groups at 100yds and 4" at 300. He has no idea how good that is! capt david

Try hunting 4x4 box blind with 2 grown men and a 26" barel... it can be harder than you think.