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snake bites #3534424 09/02/12 03:21 AM
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target1911 Offline OP
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Sorry if this has been posted in the past

This method was the only thing that saved my sisters life from a brown recluse bite. Therefore I have seen the positive use of this first hand.

I AM IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH ANY COMPANY ADVERTISING THESE PRODUCTS.
I just want to give others the knowledge this method.

http://emilysfavorites.homestead.com/ZappingBitesandStings.html


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Re: snake bites [Re: target1911] #3534485 09/02/12 03:45 AM
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Our vet told us the same thing years ago when our English got hit. Said it would save your life and limb, and buy you time to get medical attention


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Re: snake bites [Re: TreeBass] #3534544 09/02/12 04:17 AM
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Have one of those and a plunger suction kit in each truck on the ranch. Never have had to use one yet, but i heard they were the best.


Re: snake bites [Re: DesertHunting] #3534607 09/02/12 04:53 AM
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Enter Standman Offline
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Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Have one of those and a plunger suction kit in each truck on the ranch. Never have had to use one yet, but i heard they were the best.


Every single first aid manual I've read says do not, I repeat DO NOT cut the infected area and/or attempt to suction out the venom.

The most important thing you can do if you are bitten is to clean the wound with soap and water, apply a cool towel but not ice and then mosey on to a hospital. Almost all N. American snakes and spider venom is not deadly to a full grown human (there are exceptions) and in most cases antivenin is not even administered. I read that antivenin is derived from horses and has a high allergic rate in humans...bleedat if you want to, I'm guessing it's low margin

Snakes and spiders are a reality in the woods, I encourage everyone to read up and be prepared for the worst case scenario, and not go by what they heard or what their great grandpa taught their dad 100 years ago when the worlds best doctors didn't have access to half the information you can put on a microSD chip.

Re: snake bites [Re: Enter Standman] #3534666 09/02/12 05:36 AM
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Not more than 3 weeks ago I had a coworker bitten on his middle finger by a small rattle snake. I drove him to the ER and we got there withing 30 minutes. I was a little worried he might lose his finger. But he made a full recovery with no apparent damage to his finger.


Re: snake bites [Re: Enter Standman] #3534668 09/02/12 05:40 AM
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As a paramedic our treatment for snakebite and that which we give to our pt's is that if it is anything other than a coral snake that the only thing you should do is
1. Keep the pt from moving around.
2.Keep the bitten area below heart level if possible.
3.Do not apply ice or a tourniquet.
4.Do not give them any alcohol to drink.

For a coral snake:
All of the above plus
1. Bandage the limb form the are of hte bite to the hand/foot, then back up to the body, snugly enough to allow one finger to slip between the bandage and the skin.
2. Immobilize the limb by splinting if possible.

You should never cut and suck a wound, especially on another person. You are introducing yourself to any blood born disease like HIV or Hepatitis. Very little venom will come out and if you do you are then sucking venom into your mouth that is lined with mucous membranes that are full of capillaries and allow rapid introduction of poisons into the blood stream.

Use common sense and call 911

Re: snake bites [Re: Camo Momma] #3534720 09/02/12 07:25 AM
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target1911 Offline OP
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As I stated above.....I watched it save my sisters life.
Also I dont have cell service on my lease. I will use this then make my long trek to the ER.


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Re: snake bites [Re: Camo Momma] #3535024 09/02/12 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Camo Momma
As a paramedic our treatment for snakebite and that which we give to our pt's is that if it is anything other than a coral snake that the only thing you should do is
1. Keep the pt from moving around.
2.Keep the bitten area below heart level if possible.
3.Do not apply ice or a tourniquet.
4.Do not give them any alcohol to drink.

For a coral snake:
All of the above plus
1. Bandage the limb form the are of hte bite to the hand/foot, then back up to the body, snugly enough to allow one finger to slip between the bandage and the skin.
2. Immobilize the limb by splinting if possible.

You should never cut and suck a wound, especially on another person. You are introducing yourself to any blood born disease like HIV or Hepatitis. Very little venom will come out and if you do you are then sucking venom into your mouth that is lined with mucous membranes that are full of capillaries and allow rapid introduction of poisons into the blood stream.

Use common sense and call 911


Good stuff...thank you.

Re: snake bites [Re: hpd] #3535081 09/02/12 03:35 PM
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I don't carry a snake bite kit OR a 8hp motor while hunting.

Re: snake bites [Re: hpd] #3535098 09/02/12 03:47 PM
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The link must have changed because the article on the site now suggests using electrical shock as a method for treating snake bites. Interesting article but I am skeptical. The early medical field experimented with electrical shock and high voltage therapy for everything from snake bites to hair loss. I just don't see it in common day practice. This was deemed mostly quackery.

Re: snake bites [Re: hpd] #3535392 09/02/12 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: hpd
Originally Posted By: Camo Momma
As a paramedic our treatment for snakebite and that which we give to our pt's is that if it is anything other than a coral snake that the only thing you should do is
1. Keep the pt from moving around.
2.Keep the bitten area below heart level if possible.
3.Do not apply ice or a tourniquet.
4.Do not give them any alcohol to drink.

For a coral snake:
All of the above plus
1. Bandage the limb form the are of hte bite to the hand/foot, then back up to the body, snugly enough to allow one finger to slip between the bandage and the skin.
2. Immobilize the limb by splinting if possible.

You should never cut and suck a wound, especially on another person. You are introducing yourself to any blood born disease like HIV or Hepatitis. Very little venom will come out and if you do you are then sucking venom into your mouth that is lined with mucous membranes that are full of capillaries and allow rapid introduction of poisons into the blood stream.

Use common sense and call 911


Good stuff...thank you.


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Re: snake bites [Re: Magicglock] #3536290 09/03/12 12:25 AM
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target1911 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Magicglock
The link must have changed because the article on the site now suggests using electrical shock as a method for treating snake bites. Interesting article but I am skeptical. The early medical field experimented with electrical shock and high voltage therapy for everything from snake bites to hair loss. I just don't see it in common day practice. This was deemed mostly quackery.


That would be the correct link.


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Re: snake bites [Re: target1911] #3536949 09/03/12 04:49 AM
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I've always taken those suction things out, we were introducted to them in boy scouts. Seems legit still after 20 soemthing years.

Re: snake bites [Re: trahansax] #3536969 09/03/12 05:04 AM
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That article is from 1986 and a little nutty.... Everyone I know bitten by the rattlebug or copperhead is to keep calm and get to the ER ASAP. I have know several people bitten and they all lived doing nothing but getting help.

Brown recluse bite??? You normally never know you were ever bitten. I know plenty bitten as well and they are fine with nothing but a doctor visit and medicine. Yes it is bad but not much you can do about it until you see a doctor. And I am an Eagle Scout and scared of them big time. No suction device was ever used or recommended 20 years ago based on research.

Re: snake bites [Re: Txduckman] #3537005 09/03/12 05:41 AM
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I agree duckman. My sister was bitten as a child. She never knew she had been bitten and just had what they thought was a boil or a staff infection on her arm. Kids have weaker immune system and if a brown recluse was going to kill someone a 2 year old would be a prime candidate. No medical treatment was sought for about a month and it caused significant tissue damage but she lived.

Re: snake bites [Re: Camo Momma] #3538085 09/03/12 06:35 PM
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i second what others say about suctioning snake bites....DO NOT DO IT under any circumstance. Those old snake bite kits with the suction devices, (yeah, i had one too in boy scouts) are outdated and only make the bite worse. You should NEVER use one. Just remain calm (to decrease your heart rate), call 911 or go strait to the hospital.

Here is a common ems protocol on snakebites.



Quote:
First Aid for Snake Bite Victims
If someone has been bitten by a venomous snake, it is important to seek medical attention promptly. Call 9-1-1 or the Texas Poison Center Network at 1-800-222-1222 for information about which medical centers in your area have the appropriate antivenom. If possible call ahead to the medical center so the antivenom can be ready when the victim arrives.
It is also important to identify the kind of snake that bit the victim. Even taking a dead snake with you to the medical center is appropriate if it can be done without further risk or injury. Extreme caution should be used when bringing in a snake because even though the snake may be dead, its reflexes may still allow the snake to bite.

What to do for snake bite victims.
•Move the victim safely away from the snake. If you see the snake, try to remember what it looks like or take a digital picture of it if you can do so without putting yourself at risk. This will aid the doctor in determining which antivenin is needed.
•Do not attempt to capture the snake; however if the snake is dead, place it in a suitable container and bring it with you to the hospital for identification. Be careful to avoid contact with the dead snake′s head however, as it may be able to bite reflexively for a short time after death.
•Keep the victim, and yourself, calm.
•Remove jewelry or constricting clothing from the victim quickly, before any swelling begins.
•Lift the bitten limb so that it is level with the heart. Raising it above heart level could hasten distribution of the venom to other parts of the body. Holding the limb below heart level could lead to increased swelling of the affected limb.
•Limit movement of the bitten limb and avoid any unnecessary exertion by bringing transport to the victim, if possible.
•Gently wash the bite wound with soap and water, if available.
•Call 911 if available and seek medical attention immediately. If you are transporting the victim to a hospital, call ahead so that the medical staff can prepare the antivenin for administration upon arrival.

What NOT to do for Snake Bite Victims
•Do not attempt to suck venom from the bite wound.
•Do not make cuts over the snake bite. This often leads to more tissue trauma and damage.
•Do not apply a tourniquet or other constricting device.
•Do not apply a cold pack or ice to the snake bite.
•Do not apply an electrical shock to the snake bite.
•Do not take pain reliever or other medications unless instructed to do so by a physician.
•Do not drink alcoholic beverages.
•Do not administer antivenom in the field. Treatment for snake bites is best conducted in an appropriate medical facility.


Quote:
In case of bite
So what happens if you get bit? Or you are caring for the bitten? First, remind yourself or the patient that they are not going to die from the snakebite (almost 100% true) and to keep calm which lessens the increase in heart rate and decreases circulation which will help decrease the absorption of the venom.

Take care of any immediate threats. Make sure the offending snake is not close by and remember that dead snakes may still have a bite reflex. Assure the patient has an open airway and adequate respirations and be ready to intervene if necessary. If you are IV capable, start a line. Immobilize the bitten part if possible to slow absorption of venom.

Now, do you elevate the bitten part or keep it low?

Logic suggests that if the bite produces mostly local damage you would want to elevate above the heart to help prevent or decrease edema and additional tissue damage; but if the bite is producing systemic symptoms like shock or bleeding then perhaps the bitten part should be lowered to decrease venom absorption. Or perhaps the best bet is to keep the involved body part level with the heart. That may be the most logical position because we may not be able to determine if the bite will progress one way or the other.

Determine the time of the bite if possible. Mark a spot above and below the bite and measure the circumference, note the time and repeat the measurement every 10-15 minutes during transport if not too busy with more urgent treatment. Mark the leading edge of any bruising and/or swelling and note the time. The rate of progression of signs at the bite site and the development of systemic symptoms or signs will help determine if antivenom is indicated and the amount of antivenom administered.3 Crofab is the anitvenom for pit viper envenomation and is commonly available. However there is a dwindling supple of coral snake antivenom as the only company that manufactured the product has ceased production.7 Fortunately, another company has initiated production of a new anti-neurotoxin called Anacoral Antivenom and clinical trials by the University of Arizona will begin in June of this year.

Identify the snake without endangering yourself, like a cell phone photo or two. And if you have that capability, take a picture of the bite site and note the time, then repeat if there is change.

DO NOT cut, suck, shock, or freeze the bite site nor restrict blood or lymphatic flow in or out; these all makes it worse. However, for a neurotoxic snake bite it appears that a pressure immobilization wrap from below the bite to above the bite may be of benefit if done appropriately.9,10 But discuss this technique with your medical director before utilization.



Last edited by Spacemonkey; 09/03/12 06:51 PM.
Re: snake bites [Re: Spacemonkey] #3538620 09/03/12 09:46 PM
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I am not a doctor, paramedic or nurse, but I have been in the pest control business for 26yrs, after having gone to college for entomology. The venom found in brown recluses does NOT break down when electricity is applied because of it's weak molecular bond, as alluded to in the article. It is a complex concoction of proteins and enzymes. In fact, electricity, in and of itself, will have no effect what-so-ever on the venom. It may even have harmful effects if applied to an area bitten. Electricity causes your muscles to contract, which will push, or pump, the venom laiden blood faster than normal to unaffected areas.
The same goes for snake bites as well as spider bites.
I would urge you to do as Camo Momma suggests in her post...seek medical attention asap. Otherwise, the "cure" may be worse for the victim than the venom.

Re: snake bites [Re: Dragonuv] #3538784 09/03/12 10:59 PM
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seems kind of odd natives carring 6v batteries or boat motors in the jungle

Re: snake bites [Re: hoss77] #3538805 09/03/12 11:06 PM
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If it's some of the ones we used to see..Pray Fast..2 steps..but
seriously...try not to panic...and don't mess with the things..I
happen to live in a part of Texas where some guys seem to think messing w/Rattlers is fun...I was reared at the mouth of the Mississippi and around Water Moccasins ect..and I don't play with
snakes...and I have no problem sending them to the Happy Hunting
Ground..DD

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