This is Crazyhorse, and I am making this post, to see if we can get everybody to open up and calmly discuss, what it is in a posting or a responce to something some one has posted, that sets a person off. Now before anyone says anything about the pot calling the kettle black, I feel that I can do it, cause I have probably set off as many or more people than nearly anyone still participating in this forum. Now personally, my biggest 2 pet peeves are when someone starts posting things about me, simply from what they have read from my responces. The second, is when some one, and I mean no offence to any one here, starts trying to "Save Me From My Mis-guided Ways", about not caring about antler size and using that as my sole criteria on judging what is and what ain't a quality deer. Also some thing that is bothersome is when a persons experience level is questioned. Now I know that I am not the oldest person participating, and there for don't have the most years of experience. But, I do have 35+ years of hunting experience, and I know some of the other folks on here have more. The other folks may not feel this way. but I get pretty touchy about it, when some one who may not be as old as the years of experience I have, starts trying talk like I don't know what I am talking about. You younger members are going to have to keep in mind that us "Old Guys", have hunted under conditions that you will never see, and I am talking about stuff like in the late 50's and early 60's when there wasn't deer everywhere. Hogs weren't everywhere either. Places that you younger folks are leasing up now cause its good deer country, were plowed fields 15 to 20 years ago. What is prompting this posting, is the way the subject about the black cat got out of hand, and yes I was out in front tugging on the lead rope on that one. That is why I would like to see the proposed get together take place. We are all supposed to be on here to share ideas, opinions, experiences, and have fun. Just because 2 people don't agree on something, that doesn't mean they are bad folks, it just means that they don't agree on that subject. A lot of folks that don't agree on one thing may be in perfect agreement an another. I think the 2 biggest assets any of us can have is a sence of humor and a thick hide. Well, this has been my .50 worth, what does everybody else think.

I do not think you gave .50 worth.. I think you gave $1.

Glad to see the mention of the post being made and somebody coming in and saying oh you are wrong, no you do not know what you are talking about, etc....I had some joker make a post about me not being able to know anything, know how, or to do anything about well, really anything as I lived in the city....Fort Worth and how could I know anything about anything say in S. Texas.

You pointed out we are here to share info....not debate unless solicited for debate.. Ask a question and you will get lots of answers, maybe one that disagrees with another persons answer, but to say it is stupid or wrong is out of line, if you have tried it and it did not work for you, then give the post saying I tried that and it did not work for me, this is what I did.

I am now going to read the black panther post...... I have not read it yet...but 5 pages might take me some time.

good post Crazyhorse.....

check that. black panther post is 7 pages..better get the reading glasses out

I think most of it stems from not having an open mind, CHC. That's not to say that arrogance is not part of it, and maybe pride, but a closed mind encompasses all of it. It's like trying to prove a negative - it's impossible. So the best we can do is absorb that post, consider its validity and then consider the source.
In the panther thread, I know what I saw but that does not mean I can't accept an explanation from someone that has documented evidence to the contrary. I don't have to agree with it, but I must be mature enough to "accept" that the evidence exists. It takes quite alot to ruffle my feathers these days with all the pain and suffering that I have been exposed to. I have had to change my belief system often on certain things.

Also, you can always tell the character of a person by what it takes to "get his goat" ...or ruffle his feathers. When a person sees and experiences the unexplanable for a certain amount of time he tends to leave his mind open and ready and willing to absorb knowledge - even that that goes against his grain.

Just my 2 cents - FWIW.

Orn

THATS ONE'S MY FAULT

Big Orn,,,you said what I posted on the Black Panter topic..

Thank you...All you have to do is believe what you believe, you know what you know, you know what you saw......folks can consider the source believe or not believe...but anything is possible and until somebody just openly lies and gets caught....I for one believe everyone until they prove me wrong. In other words, I give a lot of benefit of doubt to folks. Now, this weekend, a duck was shot that somebody claimed to be a cross between a gadwall and wigeon....it had all the markings of a gadwall hen...I let them think it, but to me it just looked like a very young gadwall hen with lots of pin feathers... I did not tell him I thought he was wrong....did not want to ruffle his feathers , but he thinks one thing, I think another, both of us have seen a lot of ducks.

I don't know much about what is going on because I haven't read that thread but I tell ya'll one thing. I am dumb. Teach away or talk away and I will listen and learn.

Sorry but I cant contribute to this thread I dont know anything about ruffleing any feathers.

I think it all comes down to a lot of people that are into hunting have strong opinions about what they do and a lot of people knee jeck react to anything they percive as contray to the way they think. Think about how many people thought I was a PETA person from some of my posts simplly because I acknowledged that Aninmals are abused from time to time in this country. Or talking about the Hunter in Wisconsin that went crazy and shot everyone. I see this closedmindedness a lot and it's dangerous for the future of our sport. Some of you with 30+ years of hunting have a LOT of Wisdom about hunting, but that does not mean there is New Knowledge about hunting that someone younger might not be exposed to. Every single day there is new information that effects hunters and hunting in general and being closed minded to the possiablity of a differnt perspective or opinion is not only shortsighted but dangerous. One of the main reasons I joined and started posting is bacuse I am keenly intrested in exploring these opinions cuase I have met with some very unexpected reactions in my own life as a hunter talking about hunting related things. I find, in general, that the older hunters are VERY set in their ways and typically meet any challange or question with hostility, especally when comming from someone they percive as having "less" hunting experience. This comes from a bunch of things.

1. Reason for hunting. Meat, Trophey, Game managments and wildlife managment in general.

2. Opinions on what should be harvested. Do you follow the TPWD harvest recomendations for your area? Do you have some justifiable reason not to?

3. Lease rules and how they are interpeted.

4. Ethics. This is a big one. For instance I dont hunt cat's and I would be happy if we did not hunt cat's in texas. I think they have more of a right to be here then we (Humans) or our livestock. That's my opinion and I see how a rancer would have a differnt view, but I still an entitled to and have my own opinion.

5. Long range views. How you think your actions play into the long range plans of the area you hunt. For instance the antler restrictions that are proposed.

6. How we got here. I see this as a root for a lot of arguements. For instance I have read up a LOT about the edwards plateu area. I would be so happy if we had never desimated the Bufflo heards, or the bear, or the mountian lions and really had a Wild texas just outside Austin's backdoor. But nervous rancers, hide hunters and flawed public opinion exterminated the Bufflo and bears and has change the ecology of the entire area. Now we have MASSIVE overpopulation for deer in the easters part of the edwards plateu where there used to be none and now the deer are destroying the habitat for many other animals.

No matter what in order to carryone a meaniful discussion we all have to keep an open mind to opinions differnt then our own while also looking to see how new facts and research might change or skew our perspective on things. Your opinion on the state of things today might be differnt tommorow when new facts are known......

Wisdom is useful but only when tempered with knowledge.

One of the problems with written communication is that we don't get tone of voice or facial expressions that are a critical part of communication. We may be writing something to be funny but it may come across another way depending of the perspective of the reader. Anything that questions someones intelligence or honesty-- even if indirectly will cause an escallation.

thats what these are for.

insulting intelligence...

Yes, but some of you more computer savy people know what those things are, some of us may only think of them as the little thing off of the Wally World add with gas or something.

Bullard hit the nail on the head. A person might be making a joke or a jab at someone and it's taken wrong because we aren't there to receive it in the tone of voice that it was meant to be given in or to see their facial expressions when given. Some very severe misunderstandings have started on other forums because someone was joking in the manner that they are accustomed to doing and the other person take it completely out of context and get upset.

For instance, I can be joking around with some of our friends and call Mrs. Hag a "dummy". Someone not knowing the conversation and where it fit in while joking around could go up to her and say, "I heard him call you a dummy". Then, It's Bobbit time while I sleep.


I will have to admit that I was upset, but didn't let it get under my skin when it was said that a black lion doesn't exist and can't exist. Since I have seen two of them with my very own eyes and it seems that another gentleman from my area must have seen the same lion or a decendant of the lion I saw, then that would make me out to be a liar. The same scenario would go for the others that have seen one of have video of one.

I've never seen Jesus, but I know He exists because someone told me He did. They saw him over 2000 years ago and they didn't take any pictures of him. They just wrote it down that they saw Him. So, I take their word for it and believe

That is the reason that anytime I have a disagreement with family or friends, I insist on getting off the computer and calling them or talking face to face. You can't convey emotion thru a PC unless you know perfect punctuation. That, like Mike said, is why we have the smiley faces, to put some emotion into our posts so that others will know where we are coming from.

ARE THEM THERE CROW FEATHERS???

I have ruffled quite a few feathers myself. I agree alot with what ya'll are saying. But as we grow up, most of us have been influenced by our parents, grandparents, and aunts and uncles, as well as friends of the family. Opinions are just that. Opinions! My way of thinking, may or may not be something you agree with, buts it's mine. Some people have higher standards of living, better ethics and just the willingness to be open minded. While some folks, have their set ways and a 20 mule team couldn't budge them from thinking a certain way.

If everyone thought the same way, it would get pretty boring. Although very peaceful. Those that know me, really know me, know that I'm very out-spoken, and voice my opinion, even when it's not ask for. I feel very strongly about our rights as human beings to be able to voice our opinions. I'm very passionate about what I believe in. I also believe that whether or not we may agree that you are entitled to your opinion, and I would fight to my death, to defend your right and mine, to have such opinions.

As sportsmen and women though we have to be careful, about voiceing our opinions in public, and how we act, when non-hunters are around. They may not understand our passions toward hunting and fishing. And may come away with a bad taste in their mouth, figuratively speaking.

Now what was this topic? Oh ruffling feathers. Anyone ever use buck shot for turkey? I once let The Hag, talk me into shooting a big gobbler at 100 yards with my 30-06 w/ 150 grain PSP's. Had to shoot him twice cuz the first shot was low and only took out a thight and leg. He stumbled off and The Hag said, " SHOOT'EM AGAIN, he's getting away!", so I did. We found pieces in the mesquite trees behind him. Got the beard and fan though.

ATTENTION TO ALL. DO NOT EVER TAKE MUCH THAT I SAY SERIOUS. IM JUST HAVING A WONDERFUL TIME ON THIS BOARD WITH ALL OF YOU FOLKS. I HAVE VERY STRONG BELIFS BUT NOTHING THAT PERTAINS TO THIS BOARD WOULD I EVER BE WILLING TO LOSE A FRIEND OVER. I WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU I WILL MAKE FUN OF YOU JUST FOR LAUGHS NOT TO DEGRADE YOU. YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO DO THE SAME TO ME. MY GOODNESS MY SCREEN NAME SAYS IT ALL OFBHWG OLD FAT BALD HEADED WHITE GUY. SEE I MAKE FUN OF MYSELF.

I was wondering what OFBHWG stood for.

As yall HAVEN'T seen I normally don't get involved in the heated discussion, there is generally enough heat there, but I do read them. Have you noticed the personal attacks and criticism on one or another come in the first sentence of the reply and the last. If everybody would just omitt the first and last sentences on their posts, they would be good opinionated post. I caught myself just reading the first and last sentences just to see who they were slamming. I do like to read other people opinions on things, even though like others, it's mostly likely not going to change that opinion, but it might, if I see the other side that I haven't thought of. My .02.

Like crazyhorse has said many times if we could all meet face to face, I think a lot of this bickering would stop. It's real easy to argue with a post on the computer. If you could put a face with a post then maybe you could understand where they come from and how they think. I have been fortunate to meet forum members like JBCooper, Crazyhorse, campcook, timbertoes, and OFBHWG and we have all become friends. Its a lot easier to understand these peoples opinions since I have become friends with them. And while we always do not see eye to eye, I cannot think of a single time we have ruffled each others feathers. In fact crazyhorse and I had a brief conversation about the black panther post yesterday at my house. Topics like the black panther shure get interesting without the bickering.


dgilbert, I agree with you totally and BTW congrats on becoming a moderator. It's looking like you will have your hands full.

The only thing that might ruffle my feathers a little bit is when people are closed minded and not even willing to accept the possibility that there may be something outside their 'scope of knowledge'. Having said that, I haven't had my feathers ruffled too badly on this forum. I can tell that y'all are just pushing buttons!

What I WOULD like to hear more about is this get-together! I think that since so many of us are right here in the DFW area we should do it soon!

Maybe a seperate post just about that??

Randy, look in the off topic section. There has already been a post started. I have talked with crazyhorse and campcook at length about it and they are doing a great job of getting this thing together.

Not a chance in Hades, I still ain't seen proof of no black panther, were talking about what ticks people off about another persons postings, leave the cat back on the other topic.

This is Crazyhorse and yes I am replying to myself, but all of you will see it. This thing is going pretty good, but lets lay down a few ground rules. Lets stick to this subject, and not drag stuff from other threads over here. If you don't know how to ruffle feathers, I bet you know what ruffles yours. Everybody that has posted, for the most part, has made really good posts. A lot of folks touch on the same basic points, such as having and keeping an open mind, be willing to accept the fact that other folks have numerous reasons why they may not agree with someone or anyone else on a given subject. To get a little patriotic right now, that has been the one thing that has enabled the U.S. to be come the great nation it is. It is a nation of independent, free thinkers, not people that can be led around by their noses. It is because of that basic instinct of free thought and independence, that we will defend each others right to their beliefs, even when we don't agree with them. I would rather someone, whether they ever meet me or not, tell me that they don't agree with my opinion, than to just go along with it so as not to make waves. This is turning into a good topic and maybe it will cause some of us to re-think a responce before we make it. Lets keep going with this cause there ar several people out there that we haven't heard from.