I would like to know what others thoughts are on this subject.
I am a hunting guide I make my living by taking strangers hunting and fishing. I have a very impressive safety record and give a very stern warning to all that hunt with me on what I expect as far as safety goes.
Part of that warning goes to say " Don't Shoot my dogs ". If you shoot my dogs you will be held responsible. Well right before Thanksgiving I had a dog shot. NO it did not kill the dog but it did require treatment at the vet and I wont be able to hunt the dog until January.
Now my question to you is this.
If you did this how much would you expect to pay to compensate ME.
Please take into account that if I can not guide hunts then I do not make a living. So even though the dog is still alive I am not able to work.
Also I know this will be brought up. Charge him for the cost of a new dog. It is very difficult to purchase a good reliable dog after the start of bird season. A started dog yes but a finished dog is very expensive during bird season.
Please let me know how much you would expect to pay.

Very sorry your dog got shot.

But there's a whole lot of variables that come into play.

How did he get shot?
Was there a signed agreement as to penalty for shooting a dog?

I would hope the hunter would automatically assume full responsibility and take care of any costs, irregardless of how the dog got shot, but there's always that one who's gonna say " that's the cost of doing business ".

Vet bills + cost of dog if deceased, if not deceased 1,500. I would make sure to get all of this in writing before the hunt and signed so there won't be any questions if it happens again. That sucks that someone shot your dog.

TOUGH CALL!

At the very minimum: vet costs.

At the most: vet costs, plus lost profits of the trips you had to cancel because of the loss.

This is a tough call, and please dont take this as a ding on you, but here are things to consider when trying to figure this out (and maybe realize that you shouldn't get your entire lost profits):

1. I know of no full time professioanl upland bird guides that only have one dog. Fewest I know of is 4 dogs. The fact of the matter is you "can't" hunt one dog hard all day, every day of an entire quail season. Injuries happen, pups get sore, etc. People who guide bird hunters have many dogs to accomodate those unfortunate occurances.

2. You kind of assumed the risk of not being able to work by exposing your dog to strangers in hunting situations. After all it is upland bird hunting and the birds are flying over the dogs. Mistakes can and do happen. They shouldn't happen, but that doesnt mean Joe Blow won't get excited and make a mistake.

3. Was the guy who shot your dog a d___ about it? Was he upset? Was he a man and take responsibility? How did HE handle the situation? If he he was a man about it, then heck be a man too and figure out something fair. If he was flippant, non-caring, or tried to pass the blame to others, then stick it to him.

4. How avoidable was this accident?

Some people just dont need to hunt...sorry about the pup!

OK, let me give you a little more detail. I tried to keep it short. Yes there was a signed agreement between the hunters and the resort, stating that they are responsible for the cost of dogs if they shoot one. I work as an indipendent contractor hunting guide for several resorts. I clearly state this to all that hunt with me. That these ore my dogs and this is how I make my living so if you shoot me or my dogs you are fully responsible for any expenses incured with no cap on maximum amout of cost. Also that the form that they signed with the resort is their price and not mine and I am alot higher than them. So BE CAREFULL.

SETHFISH your amount is right on the money.

The man was a very good shot and one of the last people on earth that I would have expected to shoot one of my dogs. As with most of these he lost track one one simple rule always, always know where the other hunters are and the dogs. When you walk up on a point look around to see where everyone is at. Also don't shoot low. If you don't see blue sky don't shoot.
Yes I have more than one dog. I have 9 to be exact. To keep them fresh and give the customers fresh dogs I rotate them frequently.
The man was very sorry about the accident. I called for someone to come and get the dog and take her to the vet. I continued on with the hunt and at the end he gave me his card and said to send him a bill that he would take care of it. So I did.
Now he is balking at the amount.

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Now he is balking at the amount.

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He can only balk so long if you have a signed agreement. You may have to take him to court and prove damages, which will really only amount to the vet bills. Especially since in your own words " you had someone else take it to the vet and kept on hunting, plus having 9 dog's" the judge will determine the amount of damages, not you. But he'll definitely have to pay something.

If he goes to court it will be a matter of public record that he is a dog shooter. and nobody wants to be a dog shooter. Good luck with everything

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......... I see. MUCH clearer. Yeah, you are still going to keep working, you can use other dogs, I think the amount of the damages would be the vet bills (easy to calculate) PLUS the cost of loss hunting time you would be able to use your dog. For example, a pro rata rate of the lost hunting days over the life of the dog... hard to calculate. Depending on vet bills I would say 1,500 is about right...

Cast and Blast, since you guide for a living you must have quiet a few dogs, correct? Hopefully you do and your not out of business because one dog is on hold for a while. Here is what I know from experience. Unless your dogs are steady to wing, shot and fall the chance of having a dog shot by one of your customer's is quiet possible. Usually only true bird dog people can pull up on a shot where the bird is to low and a dog is in the way. Its a touchy situation and I know it would break my heart if my dog was shot. How about he at least your customer pay the vet bill and don't hunt with that person again. Good luck and I hope your dog make a strong come back. What kind of dog and where are you hunting?

Find out what Dick had to pay for the lawyers injuries last year and triple it since a dog is worth that much more than a lawyer!!!

The dog is an English Pointer. She was on point facing away from the hunter. He was walking through an opening in the fence when a single got up and he swung to his left and shot the dog probably 25 yards in front of him. He had obviously done this before and was an experienced hunter. He just lost focus on the situation and where everyone was at.
As for this being a cost of doing business I would dissagree with the post earlier. It is a hazard or the job that I do but we all need to be responsible for our actions. If my/your neglegence causes harm then I/you are responsible for correcting the damage.
Yes I do have other dogs. I have 9 to be exact. I carry six with me a day to hunt. I run two pointers at a time and rotate them as they tire during the day. She was on point at the time she was shot.
Duckman I like your thinking but a lawyer aint worth much in my book.

C&B

I was not trying to say that people should not be responsible for their actions. NOT AT ALL... I was more playing devil's advocate and letting you know that some people out there (potential jurors) are going to say, well you took your dogs out and let people shoot right over their head (which is technically true, but not an accurate representation of most upland shooting situations) and say you are just as much to blame as the shooter. I'm not saying that is right, I am just saying some people are going to think that way...

I'd just send him a copy of the vet bill and be done with it. But what do I know...I'm from the midwest.

I say the cost of vet bills, you are supposed to be the pro, not them(wich I'm not saying you did something wrong, but you are taking out people that may not know, you have to expect these things to happen eventualy).

matt

Is there no insurance for these dogs? I only ask because I know all of my FIL horses are insured. Not to be an a$$ but I believe having a dog shot is an assumed risk when being a guide. If there is a signed agreement it should be cut an dry what he owes and what you assume as a loss. No business is full proof you will have some sort of loss in this situation. You stated you have 9 dogs and rotate for freshness. If you are down one dog for 5 weeks that would be the potential revenue loss you assume. I would like to see your agreement for future reference.

I think the rish should be for the ones with the guns that the one taking the group out. If I had pulled the trigge then I would be the one taking the risk. But the risk and liability lies with the ones with the guns. They know the rish of going hunting, that once you pull the trigger you can not take it back. Make sure of what you are shooting at. Make sure you are taking a safe shot. They did not sign an liability release for the cost of a hunting guide. But I promise that if they shot me or one of their buddies that it would cost them plenty in legal fees. To answer your question they signed a release at the lodge that if they shot a dog it would cost them up to $2500.00. I bill him $1500.00

I am real sorry that your dog was injured but you're making money by guiding people on hunts but somehow you should have no risk??? This makes no sense to me. Everything in life is a risk, we all share in that risk to some degree. Especially when one is profiting. Based on what I have read about the incident in this thread, what sounds fair to me is that the shooter should pay for the vet bills. IMO you sound a bit vendictive and a bit unreasonable given that you yourself claim it was an accident, the shooter did admit to being at fault and agreed to pay for the medical costs.

What was the damage to the dog?

Rich,
What people say and what people do are two differnt things. If you would have payed attn. to the thread you would have picked up that at the time of the accident he agreed to pay for the vet bills for the dog. He also has signed a libility release for the lodge that he was hunting at for the cost of shooting or injuring a dog for $2500.00. When I gave him a bill he balked at the amount and is not wanting to pay.
Vendictive and unreasonable NO, upset that my dog was shot and the client is not wanting to pay his bill, Yes. I think you would be also.

What was the vet bill?

How severe was the damage to the dog?

Will the dog still hunt as effectively as before?

I ask these questions because if the damage was not life threatening, and the dog will be as good as new before long, I think all you should ask for is the amount of the vet bill. With 9 dogs, your certainly not missing out on any hunting trips. The $2500 amount sounds to me like a replacement cost. If the dog will soon be hunting again, this cost is certainly unreasonable, and the $1500 bill sounds to me like you may be adding in a little penalty charge of your own here. If your contract had included the medical cost plus a downtime fee, then I can see where this might be justified, but otherwise, I think you should only be asking medical costs.

I don't know if you've considered this, but is this a hunter that you would want to guide again in the future? Does he have friends that he could refer to you for future hunting trips? If so, you could be missing out on future profits by charging additional fees. Just my .02. Good luck with it.

Cast and Blast, I can call this guy, pretend to be your lawyer, and have him send the money. I will do this for free.

I think if you call and talk to this guy he will be more understanding and pay, Tell him he signed the agreement, you understand that this happens, and tell him you have several friends that live in his city that are excellent lawyers and that you dont want this to get ugly.

He will cough it up.

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To answer your question they signed a release at the lodge that if they shot a dog it would cost them up to $2500.00. I bill him $1500.00

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You did a good thing having them sign an agreement, everybody should do the same if their in the business. With that said you'll still have to prove damages if the client disagrees with the bill handed to him and wants to dispute it before a judge. The vet bill and any further medical attention needed, that was due to that accident is a no brain-er, the judge will automatically give you that. Anything beyond that will have to be argued before the judge. In your contract with the client, i believe it said up to 2500 dollars. It's that "up to" part that's going to give him an out, and allow him to dispute. Had you said in the contract that there would be a minimum of 1500 with a max of 2500 for shooting a dog, then you would have him nailed on the 1500, only allowing a dispute on the max. What your wanting is Punitive Damages, which i don't think you can receive. To receive that you would have to prove he shot the dog on purpose. Most likely you'll have to go with Compensatory Damages and even then your still going to have to prove where and how you've lost income due to the accident, such as cancelled hunts.

I hope you get what you feel you should receive, but be prepared to get damn mad.

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I can call this guy, pretend to be your lawyer

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Not a wise idea. the last thing you want that guy to do is Lawyer up.