White Mouflon

While i was out there hunting with Duane, I saw this white mouflon, He has the heart shape horns, the short 4" tail and a saddle patch, never seen one like this, thought it be cool to share never heard of something or seen anything like it..

Awesome

I saw pics of one several years ago on another forum. There was a big debate on weather it was classified as a dall or mouflon, never the less, a beautiful animal.

Good Looking Ram...

I wanna shoot it!

Where is the ranch located?

stockdale texas, get with duane on here bout it he is a good guy

Awesome sheep.....I would whack him in a New York minute!!

Thats super cool

Beautiful Ram! definetely has some Mouflon influence, but would classify in any book as Texas Dall.....

how so?

How did the mouflon next to the white one look . How many Mouflon are there to chose from??

The one next to him horns are about the same if not bigger, and there is another one that didn't make the picture that was a little smaller just not the mass as the 2 in the pictures

Just because he's white?

What Casey said. Because all his characteristics don't meet the standards of a pure European mouflon .....

yeah

VERY cool nonetheless

Give him some pink contacts and call him an albino

Yeap, just because he is white. ROE would consider him a Dall. A pure Mouflon is not white

Isn't that called a Texas Dall?

In Europe Safari Club has another measuring system for Mouflon that have typical Argali/Corsican type horns.

Nothing exist on any continent for mouflon that aren't classic mouflon colors.

The all about exotics call a texas dall bright white and spiral horns... Y'all see the picture he heart shape and cuz of lighting in the pictureIt's hard to tell if he is a pure white... So if he isn't a mouflon or dall what do y'all wanna call it?? How bout " da'flon " sounds real high class...

Mouflon type is what I would call it, if Duane had a special on him like he did that Dall, I'd call it another trophy going on my wall. Very pretty ram whatever breed he is.

Regardless of what he would be classified in any record book.....he is definitely NOT a TX Dall.

To me, he does look like a pure (or nearly pure) European Mouflon that just happens to be white. Nearly every other game species in the world has rare occurances of white specimens. Why not Mouflon as well?

If I had any extra cash at all at the moment, I would be on my way to the ranch to shoot that ram. I think it would be absolutely awesome to have him and a standard colored Mouflon mounted together on a double pedestal.

Someone is going to get an awesome and very rare trophy...

x2 to each one of those statements

Well said wade, how is it they have white elk, white buffalo and white stag... And for that mount idea sounds badass

The SCI record book, may have enough wiggle room to count as a Mouflon, especially if it's a true albino. I suspect that it would be a committee decision.

To me it the mouflon color that makes him what he is. Only the urial/mouflon sheep have that spectacular color.

A white one just isn't that. And since a texas-dall is the name the industry uses for all white hair sheep he's a dall.

He would have to be at least 1/4-1/8th to get those white genetics from his Barbados, Rambouillett, Merino, St Croix, Dorper, Wiltshire Horn daddy/grand daddy.

17/16ths is considered pure on breed up programs, he wouldn't be anywhere near those kinds of numbers, so he's not a mouflon.

Are you sure he's white and not an albino? If so how? Albinos some time have a bit of color. I would agree with you on white but I've see enough albino animals not too discount it.

Purdy either way.

Roo,

You and I typically agree on most things....but what you said is not necessarily true. Every white sheep is not a TX Dall. A TX Dall is just the white color variation of a Corsican Sheep (just as a "Black Hawaiian" is the black color variation of a Corsican Sheep).

Coloration is not the determining factor for a Mouflon, it is also horn configuration. The sheep in this thread has the EXACT perfect horn configuration of every other 100% pure European Mouflon you will ever see (massive, heart-shaped horns curving in toward the chin). There is not even a slight indication of any Corsican-type sheep blood in him. I would bet money he is at least 7/8ths pure Mouflon....but possibly even 100% pure. He just so happens to be white....(which in my opinion, is AWESOME!!)....similar to how melanism causes animals to look black. It would be nice to know whether he is an albino or just white.

Somebody PLEASE hurry up and go shoot this thing....before I do something I shouldn't. LOL

chicken chicken .......... Lol

Yep....I am

how much did he want for it?

Don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but not only on this post, all over the internet the lack of Sheep Knowledge abounds! for starters, color is by far the most prolific feature of a Pure European Mouflon,a 1/8th Mouflon many times will carry Mouflon Markings, you can't base your decision strictly on Horn Shape, stop and think about it! just because his horns do not flare does not make him a Mouflon, as a dedicated Breeder of Pure European Mouflon, this subject is very dear too me. 1) look at his ears, then truly study a TRUE Pure Wild Sheep(such as a Mouflon), their ears point upward at the very least a 45 degree angle, this rams ear are exactly horizontal(all I need to bet the Ranch on Domestic Blood) 2) look at his hind quarters(looks like a beef steer) a Pure Mouflon will have a very slight hindquarter(I don't care how fat they are)they will also be higher at the withers sloping downward toward the hips, always, the bulk of their body mass will be in their forequarters.
I had a "pet project" for a few years attempting to breed a herd of White Sheep that looked like Mouflon, I achieved my goal in 2 generations, I had a breeding Ram that looked Identical too this one, my females were smaller bodied, longer legged, and short tailed (4 inches) they were less than 50% Mouflon.
Once again as a breeder, it is very disheartening to see Mouflon Types(which this ram doesn't even pass for)being sold and advertised as Pure Mouflon. currently their are a number of "Mouflon Types"(1-8-13)advertised as Pure Mouflon on wildlifebuyer.com.....if anyone cares to view Pure European Mouflon, visit www.hilonesomemouflon.com you will see the difference... once again, "ruffled feathers" is definetely not my intention, I would simply love to see a more "educated" public when it comes to Sheep! I am done now!

Eland,

I never said every white sheep is a dall, I said every white hair sheep in the exotic hunting world is a texas dall.

Casey is on the ball.

Wade, read Ricky Hunts Mouflon World book. And see if you can find a cop of Valarius Geist work on wild sheep.

Not trying to "rastle you" buddy, I grew up in the livestock industry that's why this exotic hoof stock is so neat to me. It's just FFA and 4H with wildlife.

My x-girlfriend and I worked with a group of Navajo Churro folks to get polycerate hair sheep within about 5 generations, if we were doing it today we'd have used Damara sheep from Namibia as they have no throat mane.

I would never consider myself a wild sheep expert, but grew up in the domestic sheep industry. So I know a few things.

That guy isn't anywhere near pure mouflon.

nice website casey!

pretty sheep you have there

It would be nice to hear what Rickey Hunt has to say on the subject...

now its time for me to cut in and this is going to be the fun part.



1. just because he is white and is a ram and has horns DOESNT make him a dall.

try this riddle. im a white sheep but i have four horns, am i a dall or four horn?

and here is another one if a WHITETAIL is solid white does that mean he isnt a whitetail because he doesnt have the regular color of a whitetail?

2. WHO cares what he goes under in the record books. i have alot of guys that have never seen exotics before because they are from AR,LA,OK,NE,WI and to them its a trophy. if you shoot a white elk,white buffalo, white water buffalo, does that make it any difference...... NO


3. SEE #1

So what your saying is its an albino dallflon Duane correct ????

thats exactly what i didnt say. just saying its not a dall. and cant be an albino dallflon due to the fact that . WE dont even know what "standard" color a da'flon is according to SCI,ROE,EWA,NWA,nWo hahaha

It was a joke, who cares what you call it, i say a white colored mouflon and others can disagree of they like. Its a bad [censored] looking ram and if i wasn't going after a pure mouflon in about a month or so id go after this one.

yes i know it was a joke. i mean dang the joker hit it right on,"why so serious?" about everyone wanting to prove a fellow HUNTER(youngblood) wrong

Interracial sheep couple??

WHITE HAIR SHEEP = DALL

All I am saying is that dall, no matter how scientifically wrong it is (as the hair sheep in Texas have zero Alaskan Dall sheep in them) is what they have been called since the 1970s if not longer.

Even the folks with the new rocky mountain bighorn hybrids are calling the white ones dalls.

Fun thing to argue about.

so where is the answer to the other question.

try this riddle. im a white sheep but i have four horns, am i a dall or four horn?

Haha....you're still WRONG Roo!!! If a certified, pure-bred Mouflon popped out a white baby (albino or otherwise)....which has absolutely ZERO Corsican sheep DNA.....it is NOT a TX Dall, period, end of story!! A Texas Dall is a white Corsican Sheep.



You claiming that all white hair-sheep are Texas Dalls....is like trying to tell Sitting Bull that his sacred white Buffalo is really a Charolais cow. After all, it must be....it has white hair!!! OMG!!!



(By the way, you're right....this is fun to argue about)

Duane,

Since you said white sheep and not white hair sheep, it could be a Navajo Churro.

WHITE NAVAJO CHURRO 4 HORN WOOL SHEEP


2ND WHITE NAVAJO CHURRO 4 HORN WOOL SHEEP

WILTESHIREHORN HAIR SHEEP WHITE


2ND WILTSHIRE HORN HAIR SHEEP WHITE


DAMARA HAIR SHEEP


Wade,

You can make a white elephant out of your white hybrid dallflon if you want to. But that doesn't change the fact that he's not a pure mouflon.

I couldn't find a photo of a damara that was totally white, they all had APHA/dalmation spots.

First off I know these photos of wilteshire horns have wool, but they are still considred to be a hair sheep.

THIS IS ONE OF RICKY HUNTS RAMS


TEXAS DALL FROM THE TROPHY HAIR SHEEP REGISTRY


THESE ARE THE BREED STANDARDS FOR MOUFLON SHEEP IN THE REGISTRY
COAT:
Mouflon Sheep are considered a hair or shedding sheep. These sheep actually have
two coats: a hair type coat and usually a more wooly undercoat. The undercoat may
resemble a thicker hair to a more wool type look and texture. This undercoat grows
during cool weather and will naturally shed off when warmer weather arrives.

In colder climates, some sheep may exhibit a fuller winter undercoat; however, the
undercoat should completely shed off without shearing when warm weather arrives
with the exceptions of lambs and some yearlings.

The ability of the sheep to grow and shed the undercoat, may lead to only partial
shedding for a time in various climates. A complete shedding generally occurs by May,
June or early July. The exact time for a complete and natural shedding depends on
the climate. Lambs and some yearlings may not shed totally till the next year.

Mouflon sheep may have a slight shedding of coarse guard hairs in the fall,
dependent of the climate.

The complete and natural shedding ability is important in maintaining ease of care
and a lack of such shedding may be indicative of parent breeds in the background
that are not desirable or of having wool parent breeds in the recent background.

COAT COLORS:
Variations of Brown from Fawn, Mahogany to Cinnamon with black hairs mixed in at
times. Inside of ears may take a a grayish color or be white. The underside should be
white and the area underneath the tail and surrounding the tail (the tail patch) should
also be white.

The sides may have a defined black line separating the white underside and the main
body color. This is seen especially on the rams.

Black on top of forelegs will vary in amount among individuals with cream to white on
the bottom of the legs.

Rams will display light gray to white saddle patches in winter. Saddle patches are
areas of color located in the middle of the side of the sheep and flowing over the back
as shown in the picture to the left. Winter colors may be darker with the ram
developing more black in the chest area. Ewes will not display a white saddle patch
nor develop as much black in the chest area.

The nose will show light gray to white around the nose pad. As the Ewes age, the
lighter area may spread out. As they age, rams’ winter saddle patches may brighten
from light gray to totally brilliant white also.


HERE ARE THE BREED STANDARDS FOR THE TROPHY HAIR SHEEP OF AMERICA, AND WADE, TAKE A LOOK AT THE MEMBER LIST.

http://www.trophyhairsheepofamerica.com/members.php

Mouflon
Origin:
Europe, namely Corsica, Sardinia & Cypress.
Color:
The body is varying shades of red, preferably deep red, sometimes with black smudges. The legs, tail patch and underpinnings are creamy to white with a black stripe bordering the belly white. Saddle patches are more noticeable on rams and also vary from creamy to white. The head may be badger-faced. Ewes are more drably marked. Rams have more striking color in the winter.
Disqualifications:
Sheep with horns other than heart-shaped and/or supracervical, with tails longer than 4 inches, with missing saddle patch, or with white spots of any size cannot be registered. These white spots do not include “eyespots” that sometimes appear in badger-face markings.

Maybe im just dumb but whats the difference in white sheep, and white hair sheep?

[quote=Roo Basher]Duane,

Since you said white sheep and not white hair sheep, it could be a Navajo Churro.

WHITE NAVAJO CHURRO 4 HORN WOOL SHEEP


2ND WHITE NAVAJO CHURRO 4 HORN WOOL SHEEP

WILTESHIREHORN HAIR SHEEP WHITE


2ND WILTSHIRE HORN HAIR SHEEP WHITE


DAMARA HAIR SHEEP



yes so according to what you said all of those sheep are dalls

There are two types of sheep (as far as their fur coverings are concerned)....some have wool, others have hair. That's what Roo is referring to. Most of the sheep in the world that are hunted are "hair sheep". Others like Merino or Jacob's (4 Horn) are "wool sheep".

Duane, I am just messing with Wade.

Axis and Chital are probably pissing their pants.


(quote) Maybe im just dumb but whats the difference in white sheep, and white hair sheep? (quote)

Mike,

Hair sheep would be any domestic breed of sheep or hybrid there of that does not produce wool. There are about 30-50 kinds of domestic hair sheep, most do not live in North America. We have about 3-6. Typified by the island type barbados and crosses there of like the St Croix and Kathadin, the wiltshire horn, and these mouflon hybrids like the corsican.

Now that "trophy hair sheep" have registrys I guess you could call them breeds. So Corsican, Black Hawaiian, Texas Dall and so on.

Then you have wooled breeds, and most wool breeds are predominantly but not totally white. So as to have a more marketable fleece for dying.

I put the caveat "hair sheep" on the title to keep people from thinking we are shooting rambouillets and merinos.

I grew up in the sheep industry, so to me in my left brain sheep predominantly are wooled, though we raised barbados and mouflons hybrids when I was in high school.

Fun morning here in sheep land.

Have a great night gents, I have to get to work.

An albino doesn't change species just because it's an albino! Most record books recognize this and have committees to rule on the exceptions. Being out of standard, my preclude an animal's offspring from being registered, but it doesn't change it's species.

Hair sheep have hair and wool sheep have wool.

So are we sure he's 100% pure mouflon?

Are you sure he's not albino? I would say that the herd is Mouflon type, which makes an albino as much a possibility as a throwback, if not 100 pure. If the herd is 100% pure an albino is more likely than white. My point is that there is no way to flat say it's not a mouflon based on the pictures.

I am not sure of anything, and I hope I am in the same spirit of this thread as everyone else. Just having fun, not trying to be malicious.

I took it differently.

I am sure that whatever type of sheep it is, it isn't gonna taste good

?

Sorry about that, I never meant for it to be that way, I hope your just yanking my chain.

I was just fooling around, trying to get Wades' goat.

I have heard the best recipe for them is a variation on the oak board.

In stead of a oak board you nail bolt it to leaf spring shock, cook the hell out of it until it turns blue and all the meat dissenigrates. Then make the leaf spring into a knife.

Best recipe for sheep meat there is.

Mike Garcia

Clean out you pms I want to ask you something

Mike Garcia, I can say positively 100% he is not Pure Mouflon based entirely on the Pics alone! I know this post has gone far enough and it is a big joke to some of you, but if any of you care to put your money where your mouth is, lets make a wager, any amount(the bigger the better)let's dart this ram, have him DNA tested and put this thing to rest....P.S. I am normally not a betting Man, but if any of you care to "put up" I just want you to know that your money will go to a good cause, it will be donated to Cooks Childrens Hospital Ft.Worth Texas!

Cool looking sheep though

Hilonsome I'm not going to argue with you. What I said was, that if it's a true albino, there might be enough wiggle room for it to count as a Moufloun ,for scoring purposes, and that you can't see enough in the photos to say for sure. I used to have a line of albino squirrels around my house, but haven't seen one in about 6 months, I learned not to discount the possibility. I also had a Coopers Hawk show up about the time the albino squirrels disappeared.

Allways one trying to get in a pissing match over a littel fun........... Give it a rest, who gives a rats [censored] what it is. Its a rare sight and really cool to most of us on here. To be honest I dont give a rats behinde if it is a dall or not the horn shape makes most think that it is part mouflon, possible full or 1/4 who knows.

Dart him with a 270 right?

270 will work, Postmortem DNA is as good as Live.....If any of you read my initial post, I stated that he is a Beautiful Ram,He is my favorite type of Texas Dall, also I stated that I bred Sheep exactly like him for a time, I loved them, problem was I needed the pasture they were in to shuffle my Mouflon, also it always threw up a "red flag" when Buyers came from all over the U.S. to buy Pure Mouflon and seen White Sheep across the fence. Why is it that these "Sheep" posts always get so "out of hand" when someone posts a pic of an Axis Buck and calls it a Sika...those posts don't go on for 3 pages,Why?...because every one of you are educated on Cervid Species...hmmmm, was just trying to help shed some light, sorry for the hurt feelings...Adios.

So who is gonna be the trigger man?

lol i think duane wants to sell him boys, whos the lucky one to get on him. Id be all over it if i seen it 4 weeks ago when i booked our Hunt with Don.

I don't have a dog in this fight but, I think y'all are missing the obvious. Looks like a Mouflon with color to me. I think the sun, or the flash distorts the picture and makes him look white. You can see where the darker color is if you look close.

How did I
End up in that post?

He is a nice looking ram. I have had numerous rams just like him that we had for our hunters to hunt. They are usually mouflon/Texas Dall crosses or Red sheep/Texas Dall crosses. We have had solid black rams that had mouflon shape horns also. The mouflon characteristics will pass on for generations. The Stumberg sheep is suppose to be from 3/4 to 7/8's Argali with the rest being mouflon. At least 95% of those sheep have the mouflon color. I have seen some of them with the perfect mouflon horn shape. Genetics is a funny thing, certain characteristics can throw back several generations back.

stumberg sheep are awesome looking animals

Here is what we thought was a Red sheep/Texas Dall cross. He was 34 inches long and had over 11 1/2 bases. The heavy bases can come from the Texas Dall or Red sheep, but not from the Mouflon. Mouflons should not normally get much bigger than 10 inches on the bases.

I have seen this "Mouflon" in person. And again I say Mouflon. There is no other name for it. In no way could anyone who sees it in person call it a Texas Dall. It has a beige saddle on it's back as well. If I had the cash right now it would not only be in my house but in a full body mount to beat. This is absolutely an awesome trophy and unique.

Give Duane a call and get this ram before anyone else does. Or before I get the cash saved up. HaHa

X2

I saw this on the same trip. Mouflon in my book.

Thats cool!

THAT...is scary!

Jacob sheep usually have fairly clean looking horns, but Navajo Churros and the British Manx Loghan breeds have crazy rough beat up horns.

Saying that, my ex-girlfriends Jacob rams are capitol fighters. A lot like little bighorns, and they absolutely destroyed the inside of her barn with their horns.

How much does he want for him?

What's the price on him?

Does anyone on this list know of a source of Damara sheep here in the USA?

I missed this entire "discussion" (from January apparently) so I read through the WHOLE thing just now, thinking all the while that the "end" would reveal a picture of some happy hunter posing w/ this white ____?____ ram...but no?! What's the story? Is he still alive? If so, por que??

Only because my wallet is on a diet right now....lol

Im working on thicking my wallet again, been itching to get this one mounted along with my mouflon I got with Don. Have them both crawilng down some rocks....

Betcha won't.....!!!!!!

Anyone know what Duane is asking to hunt him and where he is (Duane, feel free to chime in here)? Let's get this bad boy on the ground and THEN we can do some upclose & detailed investigating...

$2200

haha your daring me huh? lol been talking to Duane past few days, told him im getting the itch to drop it