Thoughts and opinions

Ive been hunting predators, varmints all my life. It seems in the last 2 or 3 years everyone and their brother is now a "predator" hunter. What ive found is that a lot of beginners are getting out and trying their hand at it. New virgin hunting spots are getting harder and hard to find. Ive also found the places these guys are hunting have animals that have been very educated. Anyone else out there running into the same problems? Just curious.

I was seeing that even in the late 80's-90's

Same with hog hunting. Reason got on first lease. 24-7-365. After deer season, went to lease with find were hogs tearing it up. sit & wait with flash light off. Hog hunten the other wild game. Its realy evolved from back then. OSBWMA was some of the best hog hunting around. Price of hamburger at store is $30.00 for 10#

I agree... i find it frustrating. I was lucky enough to have someone show me the ropes before i started acquiring land to hunt.To repay the knowledge that he gave me i will take him on a few hunts a year. Now it seems people who have been around the game for a certain amount of years are losing land to newbies that have no clue what they are doing. Animals become educated and much harder to kill, but this can also set apart the newbies from guys that know what they are doing. Ranchers and farmers do pickup on those type of things.

Well, I guess everybody has to start somewheres? You guys didn't know what you were doing when you first started and now you want to bash others for trying it too, sounds hypocrite? I'm sick of deer hunting and I want to try something new and varmint hunting it will be. Will I scare off animals accidentally, yep! Will I educate a few, yep! Will I kill a few, yep! But don't worry guys, I won't mess up "your" hunting spots because my family has had land passed down over the generations.

I didnt know anyone was bashing anyone???

Good luck "grout-scout" we all wish u the best predator hunting possible on your families land passed down from the conquistadors. Happy hunting friend

i invite people ta hog hunt. My hunting stinks, i tend ta fart alot. i started out in the dark. Litterly.

you are complaining about others wanting to take up your hobby, right? How could someone not be offended by what you wrote? Did I translate what you wrote incorrectly?

Amigo is asking a question complaining? Or are u just assuming?? I believe I'll take some advice from nastynate ^ life is to short to drink cheap booze and argue with stupid people. Good hunting pilgrim.

So you find calling people names is civil, huh? What is the title of your thread smart guy? Ah, that's right you were asking for "thoughts & opinions", you gave yours and I gave you mine. I assure you that you aren't quite as smart as you find yourself to be, Pilgrim.


I just wanted to make sure that you knew that I would not be "educating" YOUR virgin hunting spots. You know because you are the one that started the whole predator calling movement.

I'll take the high road my friend, again good luck and happy hunting

Nope, not seeing it where I am. I like the fact that when the neighboring properties start getting hit, it flushes animals to where I hunt.

Virgin hunting spots? Dude, there hasn't been a virgin hunting spot in Texas for at least a century and maybe a lot longer than that.

Anybody else ever noticed how "educated" animals seem to get smarter faster than the hunters do?

I don't know where you came up with this? I re-read the OP and didn't see anywhere that you where addressed? You interjected yourself in that level, why would you do that? You caused issue, where there was none.

OP is largely correct, but it really started when electronic calls became available, folks would buy one and head to the woods with "0" thought as how to effectively use it. This was even before the internet was "online". I had a neighbor that hired me to remove coyotes in the early nineties, well his son bought a caller, so he told me they would take care of it from then on. 1 year passed and he called and asked if I could "take over" again. They had killed 1 yote and 2 fox all year he said and tried maybe 30 times....on 200 acres! I ended up trapping 12 over 8-9 months off his small place, had to use traps and snares.

The point is to get as "educated" yourself, before giving the yotes an education. I see you started a thread asking for advice, which I added too in a small way as well. That is the smart way to go about it, learn from others that have learned from trial and error. No one has all the answers, but there is a "norm" approach to calling and trapping. It is just tips and tricks that make the difference on some varmints. Young "dumb" ones are easy and what most end up getting most of the time.

I was fortunate to have 2 mentors and still managed to make many a "smart" coyote.

Unless you are called out by name, I would try to avoid taking a post personally, not worth the mental endeavor

Of coarse, this is my opinion, you guys may have a "history" IDK.

Western, thanks and I understand it looks bad. I don't know if his post was to address the few "newbie" post on the forum or if he was truly asking a question. There are many people in this world that feel entitled and yes I took it personal because it appears he is looking down on the newbies trying to learn. But we all have to start somewheres and yes, he didn't call me out in particular, he did call out ALL wanna be varmint hunters (and their brothers). Not everybody had/has mentors to teach them, sometimes you have to learn by screwing up a few times. So what's a person to do? Stay home or get out and try to learn something new, I will not sit at home on the couch because I might screw up someone else hunting.

Also, I appreciate the tips on my post and I think I will disregard post like his in the future.

Looks like the OP was complaining about new folks getting into it and messing up his hunting, looking for folks to dogpile and agree with him.... someone didn't and he got upset.

I don't fancy myself a varmint hunter, but predator control... or "attempted" predator control is part of our management plan. I called twice this year and ran some jaw traps and so far we have killed 2 yotes, one on a gut pile late morning close to camp, just by chance incident and the other from a deer blind on a morning hunt. So we are giving calling/trapping more effort now because we need to get a few more.

Whoa back up. I didnt call out anyone. I simply asked if anyone was running into some of the things ive encountered the last few years. I didnt bash or bad mouth anyone. Man this seems to be a sensitive subject for you. I tell you what your more than welcome to come to central texas and I'll take you on a day and night hunt.

as pappy once said: person with open mind has a wider point of view THF just cause a person has alot of posts, doesnt make them an expert. i'm a good example of that. ignorance list spell check is great. its like learning ta type. Read posts about the debate on hog hunting. Spot light vs. grean vs. red. People complaining about others placeing stand too close ta fence. Culling, Whin person first comes on THF it doesnt meen, they know nothing about hunting. Over 30 years shooting mussy, doesnt make me an expert. Kentucky english. Like the old saying: opinions are like everyones got one mine stinks, I tend ta fart alot .

Moderators may want to move this over to the trash talking thread.

Go back and objectively read your post. If you can do that you will understand.

I did, and I see nothing wrong with what I stated or asked. Keep the thoughts and opinions coming.

Well, the OP had a point and it is valid in many, but not all cases. I have seen guy's out on a property, sitting in the back of a P/U drinking beer, laughing and all the while have their foxpro going, every once and awhile they will scan with a light, this was a neighboring place.

There is also many that do their best to learn and do it the best they can and in a way to increase the odds. The issue i think the OP is trying to say, it is harder for those that seriously try, when some jackwagon went out because the bars where closed and had a similar party in their truck. An opinion the OP obviously has experienced as have I. Nothing more, nothing less.

may just be the way I chose to understand the topic IDK.

RC, I don't think he wanted folks to "pile on" just stated what he has observed, but I have been wrong many a time, just the way I took it.

BTW, have you tried snares? They are true work horse for control once you learn how/where to use them. I also agree with your assesment of "varmint hunter vs Management". When you have more on the line than the "fun", it gets a bit more serious. Even though it's fun as hell

That's not a good way to varmint hunt? Done that plenty of times and almost won a competition doing this exact thing

I can see where the OP can be read to be offensive and shines a negative light on the new hunters that are just getting into hunting. I don't think he meant it that way and was making a point that some places, it is getting difficult to varmint hunt because the animals are being educated to calls and certain style of sets.

Lets let that argument rest since it has been brought up and the OP has addressed it

It came across as arrogant to me as well

maybe he didn't mean it but came off that way

he should have said

" I have not been very successful varmint hunting lately, they've gotten smarter, anyone else having the same problem ?"

Let me be a little more specific. I hunt atleast 8 predator/varmint contests mid December through the first of april. Sometimes up to 10. To hunt that many contests you have to have a lot of land lined out. The last few years its getting harder and harder to get land to hunt. And alot of the places are being called by deer hunters during deer season, and because of the saturation of electronic calls on the market recently and great shows on satelite like Foxpros furtakers, predator nation, dead dog walking, predator pursuit, ect more guys are taking interest. From personal experience places where others have been calling, whether theyre professionals or beginners, the animals are harder to call. Especially if they've been over hunted. Its something ive run into and just wanted to know if anyone else is noticing it also. Im not bashing, criticizing, anyone. If you feel that I am, well I don't know what to tell ya.

I agree and have seen the same. While I was being sarcastic in response to Western's post, I have hunted with a CD in the truck, windows down and sat in the bed with a cooler and a spot light. I can assure you that I educated a few animals.

It happens in deer hunting, hog hunting, varmint hunting, etc.

I hunted a 13k acre ranch that was a very target rich environment for yotes. Best we could do was get them to within about 200 yards with our typical rabbit call during night sets. We switched to a turkey call and midday sets and slaughtered them.

Much more pronounced with coyotes though, them Biatches be's smart.

my android wonders more than me, or all-time forgetting on my part, or Gov. Still spying on me. Its a conspiracy i tell you it looks er the other way. Had ta log in again. Didn't log out. Hmmmm. Been seeing few yotes on cams. Any experts got some tips

Wont that make ya a better caller? Help hone in on your hunting skills? OSBWMA finding hogs always been easy part. i'm No Expert. Its easy finding hogs whin their over popilated. Its called Hunting whin hogs been educated. Last few years its been tougher. Last hog i got was 2010 or so. i'll let the experts do the yote calling. i blew it on some hogs the other night. & i gone high-tech still cant get a hog.

Dogdown..im in central texas ...ill take you up on that offer!! Would rather learn a couple trucks than fail miserably....but saying that and to be honest...your first post did sound like you were busting newbies like me up just a tad....but its all good im ready for class!!

Where are you fellas at when you say central TX?

Lake Somerville

question in general----Is there something wrong with wanting to charge hunters $200 night and then complaining about newbies hunting the same land for free?? Maybe messing up the wanna be guide business by using the same Foxpro sounds the guide uses?

$200 a night? The insanity! Do people really pay that much to have a guided Yote/critter hunt?

I wouldnt

I agree and it started with your stupid people comment. We were using hand calls when I first started varmint calling over 50 years ago. A good man with a call was elite and we had ranchers calling us to take care of their predator problem. The world was fine for us until about 1973 or 74 when Burnam Brothers came out with the Cotton Tail tape that had to be played on a cheap portable. Then everybody became varmint hunters and finding a place to call was getting harder and harder. Now we have some truly great equipment available where anybody can call as effectively as anybody else no skill needed. So in my mind I put you on the same level as the people your complaining about.

That sure is and it's very familiar, I said the same thing back in the 70's. Damn them new guys are ruining everything for me!

I still have that Burnham Brothers cassette Dood!
Bought it at their store in downtown Marble Falls.

Back in the day, you had two choices, use the tape or learn to blow a call.
Either could be an adventure and you had to invest actual time and effort to make it work.
I did many trips to Radio Shack buying players, amplifiers, speakers, etc.

Today, there are literally hundreds of "callers" designed to call everything from feral pigs to Purple Martins.
Just drop your credit card and walk out an instant varmint hunter.....or so they would make you believe.

if the animals become educated just become a better hunter, you can't have the animal served up on a platter every time. survival of the fittest I bet if you lived in a cabin and that was eat or die situation you would find there weakness no matter how educated they become.

Killing pigs and piling them up in a pasture is flawless

Keep em coming boys. I love seeing how smart everyone thinks they are.

The best call I've found so far is a live rabbit. I keep it in a cage next to me and twist its ear every few minutes. Draws coyotes like u wouldnt believe.

dallas is getting too big. There's a lot of people.

Hwy_man I use hand calls and diaphragm mouth calls at every stand for atleast a few minutes. Electronic callers help make it through a 24-48 hour contest. Not all of us are full of wind and hot air like others. And im sure the cavemen got a little pissy when you guys started using hand calls with reeds.

Was the same here Vern, I made my own caller with those tapes, sucked when you had one "wrap up" in the middle of somth'n. Radio shack had everything a fellas beeded for arounf fitty bucks!

Can always run them over with the tire too

Tires are ok but I prefer to drop an anvil on them

Acne makes great calls also

http://www.wikihow.com/Act-when-Near-a-Coyote

I guess according to the link above I shouldn't use my child as bait anymore.

U "newbies/wannabes" need to read the link Navasot posted. I wish I would've read it 23 years ago when I started coyote hunting. Might have saved me some ER bills.

This has been a constant argument for my whole life. I can see both sides of the argument and have felt the pain of both sides. I remember when I was a kid hunting with my dad and his uncles them arguing with him about "that fancy tape player" running off more than it called in. Heck I will never forget the first time I told my dad I was going hunting in the daylight and the look he gave me like I was loco. To be honest we have all been educating game every since we started hunting them. Cant just blame the newbs though. I have lost places just cause there being sold into smaller ranches. every one starts some where and mostly learn by mistake. Most of the old crustys I grew up around wouldn't give up there secret tricks on calling for nothing.