English setter.

I am older now. Looking for a English Setter. A bird dog that works close. My Dad always had four American pointers. Which was good were we hunted. He had four sections in Scurry County leased. Best time of my life.

What’s an American Pointer? I have 3 Pointers, aka English Pointers.

Not ALL setters work close...they can range out just as far as the rangiest of English pointers... my female was a track star in her prime and now, going on 8, she can still get out 400-500 yards in front of a quail buggy no problem...I would suggest you either find yourself a started setter from a reputable breeder that naturally works close or consider a flushing breed...those typically stay within gun range and have strong natural retriever instincts...something like an English Cocker or Springer Spaniel...I've hunted over some great Brittany's that were excellent short-range pointing dogs too...

Good luck in your search!

I bought a Llewellin from Jornada in Anthony NM. https://www.jornadasetters.com/

Super great dog for me. She hunts plenty close enough. Great disposition and is the best dog friend I have ever had. We are super connected. She hunted South Dakota and Kansas with me this year and of course some pen raised birds around here. Natural instincts learned fast with a great nose. Honors like a pro and won't bust the birds. She turns 7 this month.

Dennis usually has started dogs available but I bought Zita as puppy. Picked her up at DFW.

Love the ones that honor naturally.

I'm a gsp guy myself and my vote would go to that breed above a setter for a close working dog. I think the range they hunt to comes more from their training though.

My last gsp did it all and hunted close maybe to 40 yards. Must birds we got into were big time runners/walkers so hunting close was key to a good flush. Of course I have hunted behind some other folks flushing dogs like labs, and cookers and even a brace of Clumber Spaniels and the Clumbers and Cockers really impressed the heck out of me especially in thick cover.

Exactly like your picture. Its been too many years since in the game.

Wow this is what I want. Brings back a lot of memories for me.

Training is everything, but my Dad did no training we just let the dogs out. They trained themselves. But we had a lot of birds back in the day.

Training is everything, but my Dad did no training we just let the dogs out. They trained themselves. But we had a lot of birds back in the day.

Training is everything, but my Dad did no training we just let the dogs out. They trained themselves. But we had a lot of birds back in the day.

Good looking dog.

Ever hunt blue quail. They are runners.

They don’t run if they have cover to hide in.

I was in Colorado then mainly hunted, prairie birds like chickens, sharptails, and sage grouse and of course pheasant.






Roamed around northeast Colorado, Western Kansas and Nebraska. We tried blue quail at least 3 or 4 times a season but never connected. Lost my Heidi girl to splenic tumors this past spring. Absolutely crushing she was my once in a lifetime dog. There's a new one now butlife has changed since moving back to Texas, and the ability to train on my own ain't there anymore and neither are the funds to have it done. Peggy my new gsp is pretty much a rescue out of San Antonio. Great dog pretty much gun broke but scared of everything else like deer, weeds blowing in the wind etc.. . Love on her just the same though.

Yes but its been a couple of years now. She hunted blues near Seminole four or five times. Zita was still young then and timid with the blues but once we got them busted up she handled singles very well. After running pheasants in South Dakota multiple times now she would be able to work the running coveys better.

I was contemplating going to NM this year but the upland bird biologist with the wildlife dept. didn't give me much encouragement about the bird numbers in the eastern part of the state. Also, after hearing about the UTV theft in Las Cruces on THF, I kind of lost my motivation. I have a longer running setter out of Jornada as well. She is the orange Belton showing in one of the pics above. She has never seen a wild quail. I was hoping to give her a chance to chase the blues this year. I think the brace will work well on the blues if I ever get them out there.

If you want the closer working dog stick with the Llewillen line. I have found them to be the best old man gun dogs. I had one in my younger days as well when there were a lot of quail in Texas. She learned how to work blue quail exceptionally well. Hunting blues effectively with a dog requires the dog's experience and desire, in my opinion.

And the ability to walk through choilla cactus patches, that's where we saw em in Colorado. I've seen em in south Texas but never killed em over a dog. Actually only zapped em with a #50 recurve and blunts. Wingshooting blues over a gundog is on my bucket list.

I’ve never understood why people would want a dog ranging that far. By the time you catch up to where the dog is, will the wild birds still be holding?

I don't want my dog hunting that far out, certainly not anymore...I primarily foot hunt these days so I want her in the 50 - 100 yard range and my cocker to stay pretty close.

But when I first got my setter we hunted from quail rig buggies on the coastal plains. We primarily hunted this way because the older "patriarchs" of the lease group, who had the dog power and equipment, weren't much on spending all day walk hunting...and we had great visibility because there was not a bunch of thick brush. The dogs held and we sped up to the points in the buggies, which could close ground pretty quickly, again due to not much thick brush...

...it was tough when I hunted on my own in those days, because I enjoyed the walking...sometimes I'd have to break out in a good trot/run to catch up to her when on point because I didn't have a buggy...I rectified that by buying a 4-wheeler...but now she stays much closer and works slower, which I love...except I know it also means she slowing down which I don't like to think about...

...but we do still hunt from buggy or jeep every once in a while and its like a little switch comes on and she knows can push herself out further...but I don't keep her out running that long in this scenario...

How does the fur on a setter hold up? I always thought it would be a magnet for burrs, twigs, mud, etc. That a short haired dog would be better.
This never gets discussed but if you are an oldster such as myself you might not want a strong willed quail hunting machine that takes off like a rocket. Is a female a closer working dog than a male?
Is a German short hair a closer working dog than a pointer?

The setter's hair definitely requires more maintenance than that of a short hair...it will pick up some burrs and such...but I feel the look is worth the trouble.

In no case are all females closer working dogs than males...in my observations mother nature has granted equality...I've seen burners of both sexes as well as male and female foot dogs...

IMO, when talking about any of the pointing breads, but primarily English pointers, German short-hair pointers, English setters and Brittanies...each breed is capable of producing dogs that tend to naturally work close and dogs that naturally range further out, males and females alike...I would say I've observed it to be less common to have a naturally close working E. Point than it is to land a close working Brittany but that is a tendency I have personally observed and certainly not a rule...(I'm sure there is a south Texas Brittany handler/breeder who's top is boiling over at the sight of the words I just wrote...but again, these are my observations...not the bird-dog gospel!)...

I've been told range can be the product of breeding...basically mating dogs with a lot of go with other dogs that have a lot of go...again, this is theory, and I'm just sharing with you what I've been told or what I have read over the years (I should also state I am not a breeder and I have zero first hand experience with this).

My understanding is range can be also be trained however its common to hear that it is much harder to push a dog out further from their natural tendencies than it is to pull a big ranger back to preferred foot traffic distance...

In summary, if I were giving a fella advice on how to pick a close working gundog, I'd advise him/her to pick a dog breed whose look you like, whose general temperament you seem to like and to research the hunting styles of the dog's parents and the breeder's style of dog he/she breeds for. You also need to consider the type of dog you want (house pet vs. another one for the string)...I'd also go one step further and suggest you choose a started dog instead of a puppy...yes, you'll miss the cute puppy stage (short-lived, trust me on that one if nothing else I write), all of the puppy mongrel stage (1-2 years depending on the level of "strong will" your pup possesses) and you get a pretty good look at what type of hunting style and temperment the young dog has...if it doesn't match your own, pass it up and keep looking...

If I was looking for a setter out of close working lines, the ruffed grouse hunters run that type dog. Those dogs need to point first scent, be staunch on point till you find them, be above average at hunting dead, and willing to bust rank cover. That is where I would start my search and be willing to drive for a pup from the right litter.

I bought a setter from a member that after training was a bird finding son of a gun. He lived in Wichita Falls. He was trained to stay with in a 100 to 150 yards by me. Great dog who still sleeps on my couch but sheds more hair than ten dogs.

That raises a good point, maybe be sure to get an adult dog that you can see working rather than a younger dog.

I want to thank all the bird dog guys information. I wanted options now its just when I get a pup. I am in not now in a hurry. But a GSP I think is the dog I want.

taking your advise. Love the GSP. Spent many hours behind 4 dogs, my Dads. Have pictures back when only film. I want a dog to go huntin.

TX_Birddog1L You have good info. I have been out of this for a long time.

I have a Setter from King's in Enola AR. He is an awesome dog, close ranging, with a great nose and drive.

I want a dog that will hunt whatever distance I want. If hunting big country as long as he or she is going in the wind making big casts I don’t care if the are 300 yds out. If we are hunting a small spot I want to be able to bring them in and cover a tighter area. Anything could be done with an English pointer as long as they understand the commands. We hunted this weekend with pointers and Brittany’s working together and they complemented each other nicely hunting big open country. A good gps collar is a must.

I like all breeds of pointing dogs, and have owned and trained many. I had never hunted with a setter until I was in my 30’s. Where I grew up in west Tx no one hunted with them. It was all Pointers, Shorthairs, and a few Brittany’s. My advice is to get a pup out of a litter with parents that hunt the range you want. In my experience I can make a big running dog work close but I’ve never been able to make a close working dog run big.

It is nice to be able to open a dog up when bird are sparse. They will all work close when there are coveys every few hundred yards. I don’t know if we will ever see that kind of bird populations again.

Is there much of a market for finished dogs? I read something on it a while back. From pup to grown up dog you have to feed it so that costs some money. Then the pup becomes a pet, especially if there are kids in the house, then you find out that the dog can't find a bird to save its life and doesn't want to bust in to heavy cover- well its now a pet- what do you do? In any event, a good argument for a finished dog.

One of scalebusters mentors told me 30 years ago if you breed a birddog to a birddog you will most likely get a bird dog. I have followed that advice for 30 years and had more than my share of quality meat dogs that were purebred and cross breeds in my opinion ground time is the most important factor in making a good hunting meat dog.

Lots of quail make good bird dogs

Worth repeating

On the Blues, since they are runners- would a flushing breed versus a pointing breed be best? Never really thought about it.

No. With experience your pointing dog will learn how to deal with the blues.

Hunting blues is a different game. When your dog does go on point don’t mess around. Run up there and get ready to shoot. I prefer to drive around until I find a covey, flush them and then throw the dogs out.

also pointing labs

Working close can be taught to most any of them. Setters shed lots of hair if a house dog.

Between English Pointers and GSP, I've heard the "English" Pointers can be sort of hard headed, need to be at them all the time.; For anyone who has had both, is the GSP a more manageable choice? (Better pet).

GSP can be just as hard headed as a Pointer. All 3 of my Pointers would get in my lap if I’d let them.

I feel your pain!!!!!!

I have both breeds GSP and English pointer. One thing you need to know on the pet side is just when you think they cannot possibly get closer to you they will. Viszlas ain't got nothing on them even if they're supposed to be the velcro dog. The only thing I'd say on the English pointer is that they seem to be "one person" dogs in my experience. One person in the house gets to be the true authority while gsps tend to listen to everyone.