Texas Hunting Forum

Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you

Posted By: blanked

Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 02:43 PM

I hunt any and all upland birds. Most of them run . I can't imagine trying to hunt running birds with a broke dog. Staunch works for me
Posted By: 68rustbucket

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 02:50 PM

Define staunch
Posted By: kindall

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 04:18 PM

It just depends on what you want from a dog.
I've always put hunting over tests/trials. So if the bird moves, I want my dog to relocate on his own. It just waste less time, and gets more birds. If the dog does not put the bird in the air, I still consider them to be a broke dog.
To me a fully broke dog is steady till sent, when you flush. Or will stop to flush, if birds flush wild.
Posted By: bill oxner

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: kindall
It just depends on what you want from a dog.
I've always put hunting over tests/trials. So if the bird moves, I want my dog to relocate on his own. It just waste less time, and gets more birds. If the dog does not put the bird in the air, I still consider them to be a broke dog.
To me a fully broke dog is steady till sent, when you flush. Or will stop to flush, if birds flush wild.


Well articulated.
Posted By: blanked

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 05:00 PM

Staunch will point and hold birds until you get there. Staunch will break when birds fly. Staunch will relocate on its own
Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 05:33 PM

Go for a broke dog and you'll get a staunch one. cheers

For field trial purposes a broke dog is what I desire. Although I have a broke dog and a staunch dog, my staunch dog is much better for pheasant and blues. My broke dog is more enjoyable to hunt over though.
Posted By: Chet

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: CinchMan
Go for a broke dog and you'll get a staunch one. cheers



Hey Cinch do you run the broke one by himself.
Posted By: 68rustbucket

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 10:19 PM

Staunched sounds like started, compared to broke or finished. I’ve never had a broke dog, at least one that wasn’t wearing an e-collar
Posted By: danceswithquail

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 11:20 PM

Good question Chet. Had a buddy that used to fly down four short hairs and they were "super broke". You would knock down three birds. All three GSPs on the ground stand there. Buddy then says "Katie fetch", she goes and grabs one of the birds and then sits. Then he says "Buck fetch" and he and goes and retrieves another bird.

My heathen dogs were never allowed to be on the ground at the same time as his broke dogs, just the pups.
Posted By: bill oxner

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 11:45 PM

I was in NSTRA for 15 years. The dog had to be steady until the bird was flushed. It could go if the handler moved the bird from its resting place. I remember only two that were steady. I had two that were steady until the second or third trial. My experience is that they would not stay broke if the handler shoots birds over them. A lot really depends on the pup. Some really like to stand and watch the birds fly away, but most don't.
Posted By: 68rustbucket

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/23/17 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: danceswithquail
Good question Chet. Had a buddy that used to fly down four short hairs and they were "super broke". You would knock down three birds. All three GSPs on the ground stand there. Buddy then says "Katie fetch", she goes and grabs one of the birds and then sits. Then he says "Buck fetch" and he and goes and retrieves another bird.

My heathen dogs were never allowed to be on the ground at the same time as his broke dogs, just the pups.


I wonder how much was spent on trainer for those dogs? I had a lab that was steady to wing,shot and fall. But also needed to be wearing the e-collar
Posted By: bobcat1

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 12:47 AM

Originally Posted By: 68rustbucket
Staunched sounds like started, compared to broke or finished. I’ve never had a broke dog, at least one that wasn’t wearing an e-collar
Sounds like a meat dog to me. All we ever had growing up. Didn't know any different. Then I went to a field trial... Lots of polish on those dogs. I liked it so got in gear and started trialing a little.

My little Cockers are pure meat dogs. They do their best to catch them in the air at flush. grin But then that is what they are, flushers.
Posted By: 68rustbucket

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 12:56 AM

I’ll never get there without a place to do it and still working. Counting down the years
Posted By: bobcat1

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 02:01 AM

Originally Posted By: danceswithquail
Good question Chet. Had a buddy that used to fly down four short hairs and they were "super broke". You would knock down three birds. All three GSPs on the ground stand there. Buddy then says "Katie fetch", she goes and grabs one of the birds and then sits. Then he says "Buck fetch" and he and goes and retrieves another bird.

My heathen dogs were never allowed to be on the ground at the same time as his broke dogs, just the pups.
Heathen Dogs! roflmao roflmao roflmao
Posted By: Sweese

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: 68rustbucket
I’ll never get there without a place to do it and still working. Counting down the years



If you did this with a lab, it is easier to train with a pointer. Pointers are already stopped! Whoa is whoa like sit is sit to retriever. Of course, training the steady to wing and shot honor/back requires other finished dog(s) to work with.

Once you get there, and as danceswithquail mentioned, it is a big pain to then share the field with non-finished dogs.
Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 04:44 AM

I want a broke wild bird dog. When you start comparing broke hunting dogs and broke field trial dogs, you are comparing apples to oranges. NSTRA is the closest to a real, actual hunting scenario. I want my dog to hold at all times on point unless he loses the scent cone. He is never to move if I am in front of him regardless unless I ask him to release.
Posted By: blanked

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 11:34 AM

Broke dog to me also means constant training. When we are hunting I want to hunt not train.
Posted By: reeltexan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 03:38 PM



Vote for staunch, if I understand your definition.
Many's the time I had to find a dog only to find that dog locked down. I suppose they would stand there 'till dark if I didn't show up.

Posted By: LABIRDDOG

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 04:08 PM

Watched one on a GPS put a covey to roast, before we got permission to go get her with a flashlight. Hell of a wild bird dog they don't come along everyday.
Posted By: Chet

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 04:40 PM

Talking about standing birds till dark got me thinking about a hunt I don't talk about much, it seems to get folks saying I extend the truth, expand reality or just plain fiddle with facts. Well I don't do any of that and here's how it happened one afternoon along the Medicine River just south of Medicine Lodge Kansas. Turned an old dog named Pete out about 4:30 and had a couple of finds and then saw him going down a pasture road and dart off, and that's the last we saw of him. As it got dark we made run after run up and down the road with a flood light and honking the horn but no Pete. Well it started to snow and was blowing pretty good so we laid down my coat and a pan of water and headed to the house. Pete was 8 and never been lost so had us worried.

Out the next morning early and back on the stretch of road were we last saw him, back and forth till my buddy thought he saw something in the middle of a plum thicket 60 yrds off the road. As we drove to it you could see old Pete standing in the thicket, he had about 2 inches of snow on his back and the top of his head. Tail was down a little but all in all a fine piece of work. Birds had roosted right in front of him and looked like a piece of china. I like them staunch.
Posted By: bill oxner

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 05:11 PM

I lost an old dog on point toward the end of the season years ago. I never found him after a valiant effort. I finally had to leave with him. I came back to the same pasture the next year and found the skeleton on the old dog pointing the skeleton of a quail.
Posted By: scalebuster

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I lost an old dog on point toward the end of the season years ago. I never found him after a valiant effort. I finally had to leave with him. I came back to the same pasture the next year and found the skeleton on the old dog pointing the skeleton of a quail.


roflmao roflmao roflmao
Posted By: LABIRDDOG

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 07:26 PM

dead broke
Posted By: bobcat1

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/24/17 11:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Chet
Talking about standing birds till dark got me thinking about a hunt I don't talk about much, it seems to get folks saying I extend the truth, expand reality or just plain fiddle with facts. Well I don't do any of that and here's how it happened one afternoon along the Medicine River just south of Medicine Lodge Kansas. Turned an old dog named Pete out about 4:30 and had a couple of finds and then saw him going down a pasture road and dart off, and that's the last we saw of him. As it got dark we made run after run up and down the road with a flood light and honking the horn but no Pete. Well it started to snow and was blowing pretty good so we laid down my coat and a pan of water and headed to the house. Pete was 8 and never been lost so had us worried.

Out the next morning early and back on the stretch of road were we last saw him, back and forth till my buddy thought he saw something in the middle of a plum thicket 60 yrds off the road. As we drove to it you could see old Pete standing in the thicket, he had about 2 inches of snow on his back and the top of his head. Tail was down a little but all in all a fine piece of work. Birds had roosted right in front of him and looked like a piece of china. I like them staunch.
That had to be awesome. Now that tops anything I've ever seen and I've seen some dogs do incredible things but that takes it. up
Posted By: Chet

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/25/17 12:17 AM

Originally Posted By: LABIRDDOG
dead broke


Yes sir.
Posted By: bill oxner

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/25/17 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Chet
Originally Posted By: LABIRDDOG
dead broke


Yes sir.


That came from the first bird dog training book I ever read. The book was called Triming your own Bird Dog, by Henrey P Davis.
Posted By: tigger

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/25/17 12:56 AM

I am so glad it is christmas
Posted By: reeltexan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/25/17 02:11 AM


Me too.

Great story Chet.
Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 02:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Chet
Originally Posted By: CinchMan
Go for a broke dog and you'll get a staunch one. cheers



Hey Cinch do you run the broke one by himself.


No sir.
Posted By: Chet

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: CinchMan
Originally Posted By: Chet
Originally Posted By: CinchMan
Go for a broke dog and you'll get a staunch one. cheers



Hey Cinch do you run the broke one by himself.


No sir.


How do you keep them broke with other dogs running by them or just leaving with the flush etc? Always wondered.
Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 06:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Chet
Originally Posted By: CinchMan
Originally Posted By: Chet
Originally Posted By: CinchMan
Go for a broke dog and you'll get a staunch one. cheers



Hey Cinch do you run the broke one by himself.


No sir.


How do you keep them broke with other dogs running by them or just leaving with the flush etc? Always wondered.


I can assure you it is not due to my extremely talented training capabilities. He has the find, he typically is so focused on the bird(s), that he doesn't pay much attention to the other dogs. Now, if he's backing and the other dog starts to move, he will as well. But if I see that he's about to move because another dog is taking steps (this is on his find, not theirs), if I just barely whoa him, he won't move.

Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 06:52 PM

I do have to watch him as far as backing goes, the guy that owned him before me ran him with a couple female pointers that would false point every time the wind blew. I think after a while he said "screw this" and wouldn't pay them any attention. I've worked with him some on it and he's doing much better.
Posted By: Chet

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 07:02 PM

Really nice looking animal.
Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Chet
Really nice looking animal.


Thanks, I like him too.
Posted By: Wacm

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/27/17 08:19 PM

I've been training mine to point till I get there. There when I'm with her she can relocate. We've lost a few coveys cause they ran out of a field and into heavy cover but I'd rather that then my dog creeping and pushing the birds to take flight.

My bro had an EP that knew how to pressure the birds enough to get them to hold. She was amazing. I've tried to let my GSP do that and she kept pushing em to much and getting em up. We don't shoot those birds so it's a loss.
Posted By: Timn

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/29/17 06:35 AM

What's the breeding on him cinch?
Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/29/17 11:03 PM

Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/29/17 11:04 PM

Sorry, that got turned sideways somehow.
Posted By: bobcat1

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/30/17 12:13 AM

Here ya go. I like that breeding!


Posted By: CinchMan

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/30/17 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: bobcat1
Here ya go. I like that breeding!


Thanks! I like this dog a lot, makes me sad that he turns 9 next month, makes me even more sad that I didn't own him until he was 6.
Posted By: bill oxner

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/30/17 01:28 AM

I had a littermate to Cruising On. She got run over by a pickup. i still cry. Swami came out of that litter.
Posted By: Smokey Bear

Re: Staunch or broke dogs. What works for you - 12/30/17 02:37 AM

I guess I'm in the staunch camp. I like the dog freed up to work the birds. In my eyes the point belongs solely to the dog including relocating. Purely a dance between dog and bird. The most bird savvy dogs I have hunted have operated in that manner.
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