Where have the quail gone? List

Anybody got some adds to the list?

I would add evolution.

On our place in the rolling plains all the listed items are not applicable except #3 and #7.

Lots of land is in CRP and the Grass Land programs. Most of the CRP and Grassland programs cover crops do not benefit Quail. Runner type grasses are used to prevent erosion versus seed type. CRP cover crops advocated by USDA should be beneficial to, and support quail.




Brush piles and Half cuts would help Quail by leaving some protection area.

Cultivate lands are plowed clean fence row to fence row leaving Quail without any habitat or protection, dusting, nesting area. Use of CP33 program would help landowner finicially and benefit Quail habitat.

Well first things first and I'm just talking about West TX, ya gotta have water and ya gotta have feed and without water you ain't got no feed. We have water now but the pastures are dry and I don't expect much of a bug crop or seed crop unless we get more rain. Another thing that comes into play out here is the loss of feed crops, we used to be covered in grain crops but it's now either all cotton or it's went into CRP. When a place first goes into CRP it gets the quails attention but after a few years it's over grown and they can't even walk around in it. it's effecting the Sandhills the same way, there used to be miles and miles of Milo and the fence rows were full of quail and the fields full of sandhills, now most of those fields are in CRP and provide little for the native wildlife.

Researchers and people with PHDs at the end of their names keep looking for things they can see. Approximately one third of the lower 48 once had Bobwhite quail. The top 10 reasons in that article doesn't account for their demise on such a large scale.
I would be looking for things you can't see, as in microscopic.

What have these quail evolved into?

Natural selection, maybe.

On a localized scale, any of those can be a contributing factor. But when you start looking at a regional event, I don't think any of those, other than a lack of rainfall, could be the root cause.

Maybe, but we had the worst drouht in history in summer of 2011. I drove by this pasture scouting doves, and thought there was no way we could have quail. Look what happened;


http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2981776/Re_A_new_record#Post2981776

We found 17 coveys this afternoon in a little under a 3 hours. This is a new record for this pasture.

Fire ants and drought on top of habitat loss is where my head is at. Fire ants are a huge predator of anything young and on the ground.

I think it would be safe to say that the changes in farming practices over the years have played a definite roll in the demise of many animals, from clean farming to pesticides/herbicides. What's good for the goose, isn't always good for the gander. I don't buy the hog or fireant theory as some of the best hunting I know of is riddled with both of them.

Heavy use of coastal bermudagrass doesn't help.

Urban growth, less room and whats left has been converted from native to hay or cattle pasture.... you need 10,000 acres of native land to have a healthy quail population. and east tx just aint got it anymore... same goes with the turkeys....and people say well I turn them loose and they live just fine...yeah them surviving isnt a problem I watched 80 Easterns that were turned loose on the trinity by TPWD for 5 yrs... they were tough birds and had no problem surviving....but you cant have more without healthy nest and turnaround numbers....and it just cant happen...the best year I saw 12 poults which wasnt bad but it was in more than perfect weather conditions...every other year after that it was maybe 1 or 2 that hatched...then they just had to get past the eagles,hawks,cats,yotes...etc... sure fire ants dnt help but they do a very small bit of damage...they have to wait until the egg has hatched and most are gone by then...

well saw this is west tx.... im out lol

Last year was okay, but 2 and 3 years ago the family ranch was so dry, there was NO grass for the first time that I can remember. Overgrazing didn't help it. The goats ate eveything including tree bark despite having hay and feed put out for them.

I hope the quail come back but that whole area around Hamilton was like that - bad. That could not have helped them. A few good, wet years might make a huge difference.

The best looking and the last lease I've ever been on was in Archer county, between Margargel, and Archer City. It was in 2007 which was a wet year. It was over 10,000 acres with a decent camphouse. Anyone would have bought the lease by looking at it from the hwy. The lease manager said that two of us could join together, but we had to hold our daily take to a limit for one person. WOW!

We only went twice and shot one quail.

There are still pockets of quail south of I-10. I keep my fingers crossed for all you guys.

Mesquite, cactus, brush, control has changed because of cost involved with mechanical. Aerial Spraying of mesquite pastures with 2-4-5-T versus the old mechanical doze, root plow, and brush pile. Mechanical helps break up hardpan, perforate and aerate the soil. I am sure the 2-4-T and other chemicals are not beneficial to quail since it is basically cut agent orange. Also most aerial spraying is done in spring, right during nesting season for quail.

Also a lot of aerial and ground spraying of pesticide for cotton and wheat crops these days. Quail love the bugs.

Maybe not a big thing but Rural Electrification an Telephone poles gave the aerial predator miles and miles of perches to sit and hunt off of all over the country side.

Quail are tasty. So with the virtual disappearance of fur trading, many of their predators are unchecked.

Pesticides/herbicides and habitat loss are the main problems

And its 2-4-D

I agree 110% I bought the family farm and we had tons of quail and rabbits now a big 0 And bees also are gone

Thanks

Used to be 2-4-5-T for Aerial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic_acid





And now it looks like 2-4-D may be used
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic_acid
All the way from Agent Orange to chemical warfare agent:LOL

No pesticides, no herbicides, no loss of brush, etc on my ranchs. We stopped shooting quail years ago because of the obvious declining population. It has been nothing but a downward spiral for the last 20 years. I don't think I have been the problem.

I live in N.E. Texas, and while we never had the quail numbers you guys had out west, all the old timers out here talk about how they could leave the house on foot and make a half day round and find 5-15 coveys of birds. When I was a kid, you had to worry about a covey of quail spooking your horse if you rode very much. Im 43 and got in on the tail end of it, but there has been a very steady decline from the 70's until present, and now we have virtually NO quail here!
Turkeys were re-introduced into our county in the 80's and have done pretty well. In fact, I would bet lots of money that there are more turkey in our county than quail.

Im afraid asking "where have the quail gone" is like asking "where have the powder horns, mule collars, single trees, butter churns, peg boards, cold frames, 8 track tapes, VCR's, and pay phones gone."?

As a kid, I certainly remember lots more gardens and truck patches. Fields over-wintered with knee high sage grass. Cattle grazed the pastures and kept the grass low but the weeds remained. People weren't so quick to jump on a cab tractor with AC/radio and keep the pasture "pretty" with a 15' shredder. Lots of folks trapped and hunted coon and bobcat when hides were routinely bring $30 and $125 respectively.
Also, as a kid, I remember spending hours at my elementary school playground catching honey bees with our empty lunch milk cartons (drinking portioned opened all the way) We also made chains or ropes with the long stemmed white clover. We don't seem to have the bees anymore either. Back then we still had horned toads - No more. Yellow breasted field larks or Meadow larks were abundant as well a rabbits. Now all are a rarity. The common thread to all these is that they are ground dwellers / nesters that cant/don't move large distances. That says a lot.

On an interesting note, while visiting the famous "bats" of Austin, our tour guide told us that the bridge was totally devoid of bats most of its life, and that only after its renovation several years ago, it became home to the millions of bats that live there. Ironically, the bridge was fitted with bracing which was spaced perfectly for a man made "bat cave nest" The bats found it and moved in. I say that to say this: Could it be that through our agricultural practices from the 1920's to the 1960's we created a "QUAIL UTOPIA" and that most of us here either lived in it or heard our dads and granddads talking about it so we just assumed it was "always there". Could it be that, now that this ERA in Agriculture is no more, we can expect the same from the quail?


I would like to see this line of thought expanded as well. Things like chemicals of course, but also radio waves and possible disease / parasites.

Well with over 42 square miles of ranch land thats never seen pesticides or herbicides and we still lost about 70% of our quail crop. It's all about water out here.

I think that might be the case also... to some extent. I know that's how it was with turkey when I was very young. Lots of people raised them and the wild ones were everywhere (obviously kin the raised ones). When sheep, goats, cows, etc got more valuable and turkey less so, everyone in that part of the world (around my family's ranch) stopped raising them and now the wild turkey is rare again.

I'm not sure why there were so many quail back 'in the day' but it seems possible that it has something to do with using less fertilizer or planting different crops or whatever.

The more I think about quail declining, the complex it all gets!