Flyway Federation

Any of you guys keeping up with what's going on with this squabble between DU and this Flyway Federation?

From what I gather it's starting heat a bit. The Flyway Federation is gathering quite the following and accusing DU of unnatural farming practices such as flooding corn and heating ponds on federal and state refuges which is short stopping the migration.

https://www.flywayfederationusa.com/who-we-are/

I'm not a member and I've listened and read arguments on both sides and I'm not really sure where I stand and how much influence these practices have on migration.

Interesting

I have heard complaints for ten years about DU properties short stopping the migration with food plots and the such. Their excuse is warmer winters. I have been to DU banquets in Montana and here in Texas, the difference in attendance is not noticeable, huge crowds at both, so I don't think it's because they have more members up north. I will be watching this with interest.

The video's were very interesting to say the least.

The problem is how those FFL guys go about it. There's no reasoning and no civil debate, at all. Even if you do agree on certain aspects of things. One of my best friends is a DU engineer and they have ZERO project designs with anything to do with keeping water open but they can not stop the landowner from doing stuff himself as long as it does not violate the contract. What they don't want to talk about is the thousands of birds that end up in Mexico due to habit losses along the coast. How many acres of duck habitat has LA last in the past ten years? The simple fact that we were consistently shooting a majority of BWT from opening day to the last should tell you everything you need to know about how out of whack the migration was this year.
While I do not agree with planting crops on refuges, you can't even get involved with them without being lumped in with a bunch of crazies screaming all of the time. Everybody wants to blame somebody for the ducks not making it to the same Cypress brake that peepaw killed them in but doesn't want to look at their own area habitat, the fact the entire country had WAY too much water, or that it was in the forties in NoDak until late in the season minus just a few days.
Migrations change, always have and always will. 100 years ago the they were killing mallards and Canada geese on Matagorda island.

Things are just different now then they were in the past. My frame of reference is growing up hunting Iowa, we were frozen out every year by thanksgiving. Now, open water has lasted way into January the last decade. I don’t think that du flooding corn has anything to do with that. Give it time, and everything will cycle around.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/outdoors/article/Survey-tracks-shifts-in-Texas-wintering-13603356.php?utm_campaign=CMS+Sharing+Tools+%28Premium%29&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR2tW22M58LiYLD2aCMZL8OhVV2PgymRU2WsHuUxTB5sOmlWHnXNxW75fik

i do not honestly know how much DU actually does as far as planting grain and keeping water open. They do build a lot of levies, but don't do much that I'm aware of other than that. What a lot of people do not know is the amount of work done by the actual state departments north of us that hold ducks that DU has absolutely nothing to do with. OK takes money from a state stamp or license and flies on thousands of acres of Japanese millet every summer, Ark floods tens of thousands of acres of moist soil and green trees, Missouri plants and floods thousands of acres of corn as well as keeping very large portions of one refuge open, there are a lot of problems other than DU. A lot of inadvertent duck habitat. Look at how many stock ponds that have been built without the intent of them being duck ponds, but they are. Look at the power plant lakes that I have been put in that keep water open close enough to ag fields to keep ducks around. There's a lot more to it than DU.

I'm all for less ducks for the yankees and more ducks for Texas.

DU short stopping ducks for thier boardeee members and using tax payer money todo so... say it ain’t so..

Lol say it ain’t so. I hope flyaway guys stick it to them.

DU bought a property in Nebraska a while back and was trying to flood it in Dec...... luckily the county denied thier permits to bore under the road.

Duck nesting habit in Nebraska in Dec I’m sure......

If it were having a negative impact on the overall population that would be one thing, but some people being creative and working the system legally to benefit waterfowl hunting in their area I don't see the issue. Louisiana has consistently been at the top on total duck harvest for as long as I can remember. Pretty self serving to say hunting over rice is totally fine but anyone else hunting crops isn't.

There are TPWD projects that hold tens of thousands of ducks on each property in Texas from the first day of the season to the last. More and more people every year are buying places just for hunting and putting in wetlands/food plots, etc.

There is a big difference between pouring a bag of corn out and planting 100 acres and flooding it. The benefit to all wildlife including waterfowl should be obvious.

You remember a couple years ago when something like 3k green heads or a ridiculous # like that died at a feedlot from eating bad grain? Those water pits are aerated so they don’t freeze over.... so what where that many ducks doing above the freeze line.... simple open water and corn.

It’s fine if you want to flood out your personal field, it’s not fine to dope tax payers into paying for private “wetland habitat”/WRP. DU needs to stick to breeding habitat like the original mission statement.

If you watch the videos they talk about a lot of different things going on other than just DU short stopping ducks.

A lot of those guys with the FF are in Louisiana. I can't deny that the harvest has been down in recent years in that state as the data shows it. In 2010 LA had a higher duck harvest than any state in the nation, but look at the last three years in the chart below. Something happened, but where are the ducks at that they are not shooting? Common sense tells me there should be an opposite pattern of increased harvest showing in one or more other states north of or near LA. Initially scanning the Data, I am not seeing it.
I don't know what or who or what combination of things including DU factors into this, but with a change of reported harvest of 2,518,402 to 988,453 in just a few seasons while other area states held fairly steady with their reported harvest numbers; the FF has a very valid concern when it comes to Louisiana.

So duck numbers trending down from 15.5M in 1999 to 11.7M in 2017, while duck hunters are trending up 33.2M in 1999 to 36.8M in 2017. SMH

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/subpages/licenseinfo/hunting.htm

I think it's them windmills disrupting the flyway.

DU fired longtime writer E. Don Thomas a few years back because he exposed a wealthy land owner in Montana who was trying to keep public anglers off "his" river where anglers have been using a public right of way for years to access that river. The land owner....a huge DU piggy bank donor and past board member.

I've not supported them since.

The main issue is hunting over unharvseted, flooded corn. Can,t do that here or in many other states. Try planting rice with no intention of harvesting it, flooding it and hunting over it here in TX. Or any other food crop for that matter. You,ll wish you didn,t.

I’m conflicted on the lawsuit and the guys who run FF. I’m also conflicted on the migration issues.

The number one migration issue, in my opinion, is weather, which no one can control. Yes, power plant lakes and ice eliminators keep water open longer, but I don’t think that’s a big enough reason to cause the poor migration numbers the last few years. The weather just hasn’t been cold enough in the right places at the right times.

I’m not discounting the issues the Louisiana boys are experiencing (I don’t believe we had a very good migration year here, either), but I don’t like the law suit, either. I don’t see it working at all and, in a way, it’s embarrassing and whiney. If they could prove these issues are detrimental to duck numbers because it keeps ducks up north too long and impacts breeding numbers or something, the lawsuit might make sense, but then they’re arguing that they aren’t getting the chance to kill more ducks, so that seems ridiculous and hypocritical.

Louisiana has lost a lot of habitat due to hurricanes, they have strict private property laws (not necessarily a bad thing in general), and the days of knocking on doors and getting permission to hunt private property are mostly over, it sounds like. It’s different up north.

It’s a multifaceted issue and I don’t have the answers, but I don’t think the lawsuit has a chance and I’m not sure I agree with filing it at all. There are real impacts to migration, but the ducks have a choice in the matter, too.

I’m also seeing that the FF guys seem to be disinterested in any debate or dissenting opinions, which doesn’t make their case very sympathetic. They look absurd with blocking anyone who has a different opinion or even asks questions they don’t like. That’s not a good look, in my opinion.

Yes you can

Yep, you just can’t manipulate it.

The problem with flooded corn is that the majority of the food is above the water level. So all the ducks have to do when it gets super cold is huddle together and keep a small hole open in the ice, then walk up on the ice and stand their and eat corn right off the stalk.

The biggest problem with those guys is they refuse to have a discussion about it with anyone. The second you contradict anything they say you’re immediately blocked. Their opinion is right and that’s all there is to it. Don’t you dare try and tell them it was a hot winter.

Maybe I'm getting in on the tail in of who they are and what they are trying to accomplish but it sounds like this has been going on a while. Where can I find the information that they are not wanting to visit with any one else or have a legitimate debate about it?

I'm not up on what they are trying to do but there are some valid points that they bring up. Maybe there is nothing that can be done about it but this isn't just the LA. coastal hunters complaining ask the guys above I-20 in LA. if things are different. According to the folks I know up that way it gets worse every season.

Can a flyway change, absolutely, and can change year to year in certain regions especially with drought years etc. but look back at some previous topics a few weeks ago and everyone was calling it the worsted season ever here in Texas. Something is changing and weather isn't the only thing holding these birds back.

You want to fix the problem short term, real simple, add a foot of snow above us.

DU no Du you will never convince me that "normal agriculture practices" include building a levy and flooding hundred, thousands or even an acre of millet or any row crop. It's simply not.

Yes, meaning cut a hole for decoys in it, walk through it, send a dog through it, build a blind in it or anything else that disperses the grain. Try selling it to a TX game warden.

Snogeese there are thousands if not millions of acres of unharvested flooded row crops in the US being hunted.

Heck doesn't 4rivers run by the state of Missouri do it?

Not the first time this sort of thing has happened.

http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=7591

Friction quickly arose between the local hunters and the visiting sportsmen, both using the same timberland lowland area. The St. Louis people began leasing land to keep out other hunters, and disputes flared into fights, shootings, and beatings. Some clubhouses and lodges, which were constructed with the readily available hardwood lumber, were burned.

Local residents regarded the watery Big Lake country as theirs to hunt. Clubs signed leases and bought land, and lumber companies bought the timber rights. Titles to the land, however, were sometimes questionable if not fraudulent. Numerous court actions resulted. An avalanche of local legislation came out of the Arkansas General Assembly but was largely ineffective. Some of the laws prohibited out-of-state residents from hunting in Arkansas, and the wealthy sportsmen often paid the fines and went on hunting.

At the beginning of the twentieth century, concerns over dwindling wildlife populations emerged on a national level as well as in Arkansas.......

This is terrible information and false, best of luck to you.

I agree. The lawsuit itself is making hunters in other states laugh, add in the way the leader, for lack of a better term, is treating people who don’t agree 100% with what he says and it’s even worse. He is turning people away who might actually be on his side and making even more enemies.

This seems to be one of the most misunderstood or misconstrued and vague laws. Manipulation comes down to opinion on how the law reads, and it’s a vague law, but you can hunt flooded crops with decoys, a blind, etc, in most cases. Where it gets confusing and controversial is “common agricultural practice.” Even worse is when the “zone of influence” comes into play (which means, if a field is baited or a field is determined off limits for some reason, other nearby fields that are otherwise legal to hunt, even if they’re on other properties or the hunters are unaware of said illegal field, are considered off limits because of something called the zone of influence.)

Under “What is Legal,” page four says:

Standing or flooded standing crops where grain is inadvertently scattered solely as the result of
hunters entering or leaving the area, placing decoys, or retrieving downed birds. Hunters are cautioned that while conducting these activities, any intentional scattering of grain will create a baited area.

https://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/waterfowl-hunting-and-baiting.pdf

So, a Texas warden might disagree, but a hunter will have a good case.

Wait... the FF guys are liberals???

What I highlight there in red font, I think that language clarification was recently added over the last few years, I don't think it was always in the fed reg. So I think that is why it is so mis-understood, without that language, it left it up to interpretation. On this forum we had long debates over this years ago, and common sense would tell you if the law says you can hunt over standing crop but you can't "manipulate" it, common sense would tell you it's ok to do normal hunting activities. And I'm sure there were many that purposely tried to game it and drive their 4wheeler all over it, and some got busted for that, so then you had internet GWs saying driving your 4wheeler over it is manipulation...

Do remember when it was changed? I haven’t been hunting all that long, but I understand there were some changes to the baiting law made in 1998 (and that was to absolve hunters who didn’t know someone poured corn out, whereas before, it didn’t matter - you were guilty.)

Regardless, snogoose is wrong. Hunting over standing corn, as long as it hasn’t been manipulated (that’s the open ended, vague part) and common agricultural practices are followed, is legal. Setting decoys, retrieving birds, building a blind, etc, is legal, per the part I posted above.

Now, if he is saying GW in Texas will just say setting decoys, retrieving birds, etc anytime someone is hunting an otherwise legal corn field is “intentionally scattering” grain, then that’s a separate issue.

No, and I'm not saying the law changed, just that clarification in red font I don't think was always there and I could be wrong on that. I just remember reading fed baiting regs many times and never saw that, and even sent e-mail asking for that clarification, this was probably 10 years ago.

thanks.

The entire document I posted the link to is probably as clear as this topic has ever been, and it’s still left open to interpretation in many ways. I hate vaguely-written laws.

They are controlling the water level now. when the duckies eat all the lower stalks...they add some water so's they can reach the next level of stalks. Then repeat

Many years ago we leased a piece of property that was 1/2 rice and 1/2 plowed. For teal season, after the farmer made his first cut, he would go to two low areas and poison two small areas in the rice. He would then combine the field. When he flooded for the second crop, it left two small holes in the rice field for us to hunt. He told us by poisoning a small amount of rice, it took it out of production so it was not considered baiting. Hope we were not breaking the law.

The way I under stand it is simple.

In 1998 the Migratory bird treat was modified. The key point that changed was allowing the definition of normal agricultural and soil stabilization to move from the Federal Government to the state.

If you look at what followed, MO for example, took full advantage. Besides private clubs the State began supplementing WMS for waterfowl. It is an economic boom for these states.

On a massive scale, and its not just in MO as Bobo pointed out, DU has set something up in Nebraska areas to feed ducks on the way down.

All the members of Flyway Federation want is the restoration of the treat before 1998.

I know of several people on this forum I've exchanged PMs with. Some have gone to KS because after the second split there were just no ducks. The ones that came down were scattered.

The ventured to KS and told me the birds do not leave the refuge. They have everything they need. Food, water, shelter, and the most important, no hunting pressure.

I know others that went to Nebraska and experienced the same thing.

Here is where the beef comes in on DU and Delta.

The state stamp you pay for, those dollars, most of which goto DU or Delta. At least in Louisiana it does, but I'd have to research to see if Texas does the same, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't as the king of game in our state is deer. I don't know of any State waterfowl biologist or waterfowl surveys that TPWD does. I'm sure they are there, but I still bet funding goes to DU and Delta. And those funds are used to lobby and pay for supplementing feeding in refuges north of Texas as close to the duckling factory as possible.. And some some of the refuges you can't even hunt, so no pressure on the birds to push them out.

DU's mission is simple. Build the birds.

Unfortunately their belief is the closer you can keep the birds to the breeding ground the better, thus Flyway Federation has found time and time again efforts of DU to build those habits as close to the breeding grounds as possible. And this started after the changes to the Migratory bird treaty act in 1998. The net result is the birds don't fly to the gulf coast any longer. Not like they used to.

For years Louisiana DU chapters led the nation in fund raising for DU, thus the anger on Flyway Federation.

DU recently release a video saying that many of the positions of Flyway Federation are false. I believe DU said they were myths.

However, I challenge each of you to decide on your own and read the numerous publications you can download from the Flyway Federation site:


https://www.flywayfederationusa.com/facts-and-documents/

While doing my own research into this rather than just believe what they tell us I was already one step ahead of you researching where the Texas Migratory Game Bird Stamp Fund goes. It is only going to projects within Texas and to the main breeding area for birds that migrate to Texas. Or at least it appears that way. The two focus areas are our Gulf Coast Region and the Saskatchewan Province. If Louisiana is not doing something similar with their state duck stamp fund and just writing a blank check to DU, those guys need to get onto their state legislators to get a bill passed to change that.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/grants/wildlife/game-bird/documents/instructions.pdf

OK, I was wrong about the baiting laws. My apologies.

OK, I was wrong about the baiting laws. My apologies.

Good info and well explained. I will be reading more from the link.

I’m still not sure if Guy is talking about the changes that were made in 1998. That was over 20 years ago, so his “a few years ago” claim was confusing.

No worries.

Lots of good info and perspective in this thread. Hopedale hit the nail on the head about DU. IMO what they're doing isn't malicious... that is, trying to short stop ducks for their Yankee cronies to hunt is not their objective. However, that is a big side effect when you have a mild winter and they never leave those areas up north. Again I doubt DU really saw that coming, but maybe I'm wrong and they did. It wouldn't make much sense though with so much of their base in the South.

Louisiana had some of the highest harvest numbers as any state in the same flyway for most years from 1998 to 2014, then starting in 2015 the harvest survey for Louisiana had a dramatic drop in harvest that has continued over the next 3 years till now. During this same time no other state on average had the same dramatic drop in harvest, nor a dramatic increase in harvest. Whatever changed to create the dramatic drop in harvest after 2014 was region specific and occurred over a very short time frame. Texas is in a different flyway, but ducks don't know that. In our region I know 2015 was the year we had winter floods in Texas after a few years of drought. Might or might not be a contributing factor.

I agree it’s not nefarious action by DU, but more of an unintended consequence. I also think it’s part of a larger set of issues. It sucks, but I think trying to pinpoint one reason is missing the forest for the trees.

Sniper John - I’ve seen those numbers, too. It’s interesting. I’ve seen people over the last two-three years say that the flyways are shifting, which may be true. I don’t know. It’s as good a theory as any.

I think what some people get caught up in is looking at small data sets. I am guilty of it, too. I get frustrated, just like many people, and look to blame something. I don’t believe three years, in the grand scheme of things, is a good sample size to blame one single issue, like hot cropping or DU. I think both of those are contributing factors, but just two of several key issues contributing to the problem. And the problem may work itself out anyway.

I’m conflicted.

Interesting to look at corn production over the years. Just another small piece of the puzzle. Nesting Success, Weather, Weather, Weather, and Ag practices are the common sense determining factors, IMO.

To me FF should be more ticked off about the Saints than shooting late season blue wings.

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornprod.php

New Bill

SEC. 7002. REAUTHORIZATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES CONSERVATION ACT.
21 Section 10 of the National Resources Conservation Act (16 U.S.C. 6109) is amended to read as follows:
VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:12 Jan 10, 2019 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00567 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\S47.PCS S47
kjohnson on DSK79L0C42 with BILLS
568
•S 47 PCS
1 ‘‘SEC. 10. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.
2 ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—There is authorized to be appropriated to carry out this Act $6,500,000 for each of fiscal
4 years 2018 through 2022.
5 ‘‘(b) USE OF FUNDS.—Of the amounts made available under subsection (a) for each fiscal year, not less than
75 percent shall be expended for projects carried out at locations North of a line from Texas to Alabama within the United States.’’.
Natural Resources Conservation Service (part of the Dept. of Agriculture), will continue to work with Ducks Unlimited in Mississippi, Missouri, and Arkansas to flood fields in the hope they can prevent some birds from ending up in Lousiana, Texas, and Alabama coastal marshes, or at least slow their arrival there to prevent overhunting of this resource.

Anyone who believes building a levy to flood row crops is "normal agriculture practices" is wrong.

Anyone who believes that du has not had a negative effect over the last few decades on southern duck hunting is a fool

Farming efficiency=production increase not necessarily more plowed ground. Since 2000 my production is up 30+% of on same plowed ground. That chart tracks efficiency since it’s all harvested grain

Now since Obama acreage plowed did go up a touch with him cutting/shrinking of the CRP program, I just don’t think see corn fields that are cut in sept or sooner short stoping ducks, especially since most are aren’t on major flyways, Infact as soon as mine are cut they get replanted with barely or wheat. Corn fields aren’t designed to hold water, vast majority of corn fields or ag in general aren’t waterfowl friendly.

BIG DITTO! One of the best waterfowl seasons I can ever remember had to do with over 1000 acres of corn that got hit by high winds and hail and laid the corn over where it couldn't be harvested efficiently. You can't even imagine the number of birds using this field. That was 8-10 years ago. I've hardly seen a bird on it since. Big time farming operations are very efficient and by the time water fowl get this far south they have already turned the ground once or twice preparing it for next year. I've walked acres of it and never seen a kernel of corn.

Another spot that for years was automatic was due to a farm with an old piece of equipment. You could walk that field and find ears of corn after it was harvested. Birds found it and stayed on it year after year after year. Two years ago the farmer switched to having someone with a more efficient machine harvest the crop for him and split the earnings. Splitting the earning by using a more efficient machine yielded higher profit for this farmer. Win, win for him. I've yet to see birds using that ground since he switched to a better farming practice. Don't believe everything you read on the internet!

Flooded grain fields and “normal AG practices” are two connected but separate things, apparently:



https://www.fws.gov/le/waterfowl-hunting-and-baiting.html

Good Lord the Retiree has to much time on his hands.

Waterfowl tend to eat most of the gain crops on the fall /winter movement. It does not take birds long to eat local fields, that have less grain with modern equipment. This is one of the biggest factors in birds here today and gone tomorrow. Water fowler's are so limited on the influences of local crop production and timing. I maybe speaking to deaf ears , but I approached a look of water body mangers( Lakes and impoundments) to try to grab federal funds to increase waterfowl habitat, but there is string of answers. It simple boils down to lack of interest, water is for city use or it never been done here. A lot of the state managed water bodies are not geared to produce waterfowl habitat in any from but under natures scheme. If we want bird numbers we need to help birds here before they return to the nesting grounds. An old hunter once said " you miss a bird and that a seed bird, I hope it raises two. One to shoot and one to breed." I hope we can raise more than two. Please push local mangers to use funds on not just water holding, but habitat management.

https://www.farmprogress.com/crop-report/usda-crop-progress-corn-harvest-crosses-another-milestone

Acreage has increased but I agree that it can be assumed that efficiencies have outpaced the increase in acres planted overall. A majority of crop harvests are done through Oct and Nov. I was hunting pheasants in Kansas in mid December and there was still people harvesting plenty of Milo due to the wet fall. I am by no means an authority on agriculture but a section of harvested corn/milo/soybeans has plenty of waste grain from my experience. It isn't picked clean in a day. Again just one of the multitude of factors that can have an impact. Weather is always the most critical.

Hey Everyone,

I used to live in the exact area that the debate is all about. West Central Illinois on the Mississippi river. I hunted up there from the mid 70s until the early 2000s. When I was a kid hunting with my dad in the 70s it was rest areas only and very little corn in them. The ducks would fly out everyday to feed and the hunting was good. Then the low numbers of the 80s hit and we all remember the 3/30 seasons of the 80s and early 90s. Then the population boom began and over time from the mid 90s on you began to see refuges with standing corn in them AND private landowners began lease operations. It didn't take long for fields to be levied off and the corn / crops to be flooded. This has been going on for 15+ years in that area ( IL / Mo ) and grows larger each year. There are literally thousands of private acres in the Mississippi river bottoms that are farmed for ducks now. Take a look at the Forbes Biological Station face book page , they took photos of the river bottoms during a survey and the amount of flooded fields is amazing.

I still talk to people that hunt up there and there is so much flooded corn that the food supply is endless. Couple this with private & public refuges and the ducks simply go nocturnal to feed. Keep in mind, flooded corn is still accessible to the birds after a freeze or snow. I'll give you that this is the high profile area but we all now that this goes on to some extent in the central fly way north of us also.

So here's the question, has the vast amount of flooded food altered the migration???? I still feel that weather does play a roll in addition to the time of year ( amount of day light ) but the question has to be asked. Given the fall off in harvest numbers and the experiences of everyday hunters in the south is farming for ducks affecting the migration. With food being offered on such a larger scale in this manner has it changed the migration of ducks??? We all know that ducks imprint on areas and will only go far enough south to find food and open water. How bad does the weather have to get to drive them away from a food source that wont be covered by snow or frozen over? Are we finally seeing the long term effects of this in the south and enough birds have been imprinted over the years that the migration is short stopping. We wouldn't know this for years until a dedicated study would be done on it but I have a feeling it may be a bigger factor than people think.

Let's be honest here though; if you duck hunt over any type of ag field it's baiting. In some areas the land owner makes more by not harvesting and selling corporate duck leases. That's not normal ag practices. Yeah, maybe it's legal because you planted it last year and the GW ok'ed it, but it's still hunting over bait.
Don't know why some get mad when another organization does it, but have no problem with their lease doing it.

Most of this is pure mumbo jumbo. Ducks have more to eat than they can utilize all the way down the central flyway due to intensive Ag practices. Puddle ducks mostly feed on dry land in harvested grain fields all the way into texas as they migrate and use water for resting and roosting. The last two years, North Dakota has froze up either the first or second week of November. The birds did the same as always. They came just south of the freeze line. I was there and saw it as I have for many years. By and large the major migration in the central flyway has progressively moved west and is observable as the birds come out of Canada through the Dakotas. Burgeoning numbers that now winter in west Texas are further evidence. While other states are spending money on habitat enhancement as it should be, here in Texas, we are losing wintering habitat at an alarming rate. Particularly the rice farms on the coastal prairie that traditionally wintered staggering numbers of birds and are no longer farmed. For those that travelled north up the central flyway for Christmas this year, I'm sure you saw large numbers of waterfowl in central Oklahoma, just south of the freeze line. Waterfowl migrations are controlled by weather. Habitat dictates where they migrate too. I have spent a great deal of time hunting the prairie pot hole region for many years. I have witnessed countless wetlands drained, and CRP acres that waterfowl rear young in, go under the plow in the name of high yield agriculture. Can't blame the farmers for wanting the added income. DU buys up these unproductive acres and preserves them as waterfowl production areas. They are open to public hunting. I have no affiliation with DU. Just passing along what I see first hand. Here in the south, particularly Texas, more and more habitat is lost every year. Hunters are compressed into less area. Migrating birds react and migrations shift. Another dynamic many turn a blind eye to is the fact that for the last two years, the central plains have been in a historic drought. Much of the water ducks and geese historically rested on has been dry and available habitat is severely stressed. This natural draw down will rejuvenate wetlands but without winter weather to push the migration southward, there is no reason for the puddle ducks and geese to leave the horizon to horizon bounty the agriculture of the central plains offers. As for more and more acres in corn, it is mainly fueled by government mandated ethanol. Another big player in this years season was our federal government shutdown. Federal rufuges that are traditionally hunted, with much prime habitat closed to the public, due to the government shutdown, served as unpressured sanctuaries for waterfowl that did come south. Like it or not, as waterfowlers in the south, we are beholding to winter weather to bring the birds to us and the weather patterns of the last few years have not been in our favor.

I recently sold my membership in a 2000 acre duck club/ranch in the state of Washington (Pacific Flyway) and hoping/expecting to move to Texas in the near term. Almost all of the ranch is in NRCS/WRP and has been flooded for years to create wetlands and originally to run cattle. It has also had DU contributions over the years. I am not going to provide much judgement here, although I have some strong opinions.. The property has had fabulous hunting over the years and is in a premier mallard spot in Eastern Washington. Over a 20 year period the ranch has transformed from flooded smartweed and millet to many acres of flooded food plots, particularly standing flooded corn. My observation believes this approach has concentrated the ducks into a feed station of ducks coming into the flooded corn fields near dark and leaving when kicked up by hunters going to blinds in the morning. The property still is productive, however the hunting has become more spotty over the past few years with fewer spots holding large quantities of ducks. During ice up the ranch has enough running water to keep open water in several areas of the fields. At that time, hunting is more like killing than hunting. Our members have argued for several yeas about hunting flooded corn. The for camp believes this is the only way to compete with flooded corn 50 to 100 miles north of the ranch. Others argue that this is really not a fair hunt, particularly during ice up. Various skill levels and number of guests per party also comes into play.

I don't feel it is appropriate for me to provide addition information. I do believe that this is an issue worth debating. It clearly benefits the rich and clubs over public hunters.
If you have other questions, please contact me privately.

In my experience, it has the same effect as flooded rice. I think that comparison is where the heart of this arguement lies.

Most of the people I talk to in Washington would agree.

I got blocked from FF after a mod asked me directly if I was a believer in the northern states were the cause of short stopping ducks. I just typed "No". That was that. LOL I truly believe the lack of birds has everything to do with weather patterns on a natural change.

That ain't why you got blocked. I told them you're a card carrying liberal and still believes Obama was the best President ever.

it seems logical to think that flooded corn and other grains have a big impact on ducks coming to texas and other southern states. But, we have a decrease year to year occurring on duck species that do not feed on grain for the most part. There's something more going hard that is hard to pin point exactly. Whether it be weather, hunting pressure, decreasing habitat in "traditional" areas year to year, increased stock ponds in non traditional areas, etc.

Vast majority of DU projects are private especially when you add in thier WRP influences. Your idea of unproductive and mine are different. I’ve hunted a bunch of DU “funded” enhanced properties located all over the US, Infact even a property that was gifted to DU, sold and later enhanced with DU dollars and tax payer money .

The freeze line is the major culprit but the feedline and kept openwater isn’t far behind.

I personally can’t phathom flooding my corn at a cost of over 2k an acre in expenditures and lost grain revenue, but I’ve hunted flooded corn up north and know the effectiveness.

Point is DU is far from being beyond reproach.

i wonder if there is a correlation between the amount of money these guys pay for clubs/leases/hunts and the amount they bitch and want to point the finger at someone for not having birds.

I think DU is in the business of preserving and enhancing waterfowl habitat. A large percentage of waterfowl habitat in this country lies within the confines of private property.....

Your view on habitat for migratory birds is somewhat one dimensional. It is needed the entire length of the flyway but particularly where they rear their young and that is far north of here. Whether you understand it or not, the birds we shoot in the south are born and bred and live most of their lives far north of here. (at least 8 months out of the year). I don't buy into the "cut your nose off to spite your face" mentality.

So how do you explain the relatively new phenomenon of black bellied whistling ducks expanding their migration northward coinciding with northern birds that are suited to colder temps not migrating as far south? I believe that weather is the culprit....

As waterfowl hunters, we are our own worst enemy. Between the Internet and the recent dramatic increase in duck boats equipped with mud motors, there are very few public sanctuaries left where waterfowl can rest that today's hunters can't and dont get at them.....sadly i see waterfowl trending the same direction as deer hunting. Overhunted and abused public areas becoming less productive and pay to hunt private operations gaining traction....

Edited to add: what I perceive to be unproductive acres are the native prairie grass enrolled in CRP that waterfowl utilize to nest in and wetlands. Currently they are not being farmed, hence I describe them as unproductive. That is what makes the duck factory what it is. As far as I know, DU is the only organization I am aware of that is attempting to preserve that critical nesting habitat. I see far more unproductive acres annually converted to Ag, as the CRP acres are not renewed, than I see set aside for future waterfowl reproduction. Don't take my word for it though, do the research yourself and draw your own conclusions.

My view of habitat isn’t on dimensional. I have land in the CRP and WRP program. There is a huge difference in preserving nesting habitat, preserving seasonal wetlands, And creating private multi-million dollar hunting encampments on tax payer dollars. I’ve hunted them, know the backstory from the owners etc. My issue isn’t the preservation of wetlands and nesting habitat, and/or seasonal wetlands that the tax payer funded programs are for, it the miss use of how those funds as being appropriate and DU ability to appropriate. There is more open water then ever before. You want more ducks, then put ALL your efforts to maximize recruitment. A duck has the ability to mov 800 miles as a one day range with a good tail wind.

There is no new phenomenon, I saw blk belly duck in north Texas 20 years ago, you aren’t seeing a huge new migration you are seeing population growth and dispersal, they are expanding or reclaiming thier breeding area depending on how you view traditional migratory populations.

We have seen a huge flyway migration of specks, is that temperature related or agriculture appropriation/utilization?

I get the freeze line my farm is in Northern Oklahoma, and I grew up and still hunt waterfowl there, I get milder weather during some seasons, but I’m not agruing that, I’m arguing how DU is using tax payer funds for privatization of migratory waterfowl.

if Bobo floods his corn i am coming up and setting out crab traps

Wins. Shut it down

Bobo, you get no arguement from me regarding more and more pay to hunt operations. Your timeline on the black bellied whistling ducks is spot on as well. FWIW I also grew up in Oklahoma. My family farmed peanuts and still does. Waterfowl hunting in the peanut fields is off the hook when the plains to the north are blanketed in snow and ice. Seems to happen later and later in recent years. There have also been birds present through the end of the season. The times I grew up in where we all knew the neighbors and a knock on the door or phone call was all it took to hunt ducks and geese are all but gone. Outfitters and hunting clubs are gobbling up the opportunity and slowly pricing the average joe out of a lot of private ground. And yes a lot of them sink a lot of money into habitat enhancement. Things have definitely changed from when I was growing up in the '60's and '70's. I'm a forester in east texas and have monitored temperatures and rainfall for many years. Current weather patterns have not been what I would call normal. Hopefully things will trend back the other direction but only time will tell...

Concur,
I don’t have an issue with outfitters or even private property owners in general building a duck Mecca. More power to them. I just don’t think people realize what DU actually does and how they do it.

My point on DU is there is more to conservative then a blanket: “who cares, conservation is conservation, there aren’t any repercussions.” The complete WRP program has gone a complete different direction then what it was ment for.

Flyway Federation followers aren't gonna take kindly to you posting videos with common sense and scientific evidence to support it.

Good videos by the way.

X2- thanks for posting.
I don't believe the flyway federation folks are motivated by science...

there is suppose to be a 3rd video but i am unable to locate it.