How about another "Public" Thread

First off I have to say I used to be against sitting in a blind built by someone else. There is a line there though. When every point in the bay has an outfitter's blind then you gotta get in the ditch with them. So whoever built the blinds I hunted in, thank you very much.

So here goes the public story. I went down to the bay to take my wife on an easy public hunt. I wanted her to shoot some redheads feet down over the decoys. Well we zip across the bay way early and pick out a blind. While she was getting the gear in the blind I put out 7 dozen decoys. (Whoever invented the Texas rig, THANK YOU).

From across the bay I see this little white Boston Whaler with one guy headed right to me. I knew what was coming. He pulled up as far as his outboard would let him, anchored and walked to me the remaining 100 yards. As he entered the spread I asked what he needed.

He put up his hands and said "I don't want to fight but this is my bosses blind and he is going to be here in a minute with clients and he is going to hunt it. Now kowing he is an outfitter's minion doing what he was told I went easy on him, at first.

I said "Well this is a public blind, we aren't going anywhere". Then he says "Well we built it". I was still kind to him and informed him once they drove away from it then it became property of the State and it is public.

Now the kid makes a grand mistake by saying "I am warning you, my boss is coming to hunt this blind". I let you guess the wrath that insued. At this point he was interupting our hunt enough to file a hunter harrasment charge. He was informed of the law violation. I told him, in not so nice of a tone, to get in his boat, leave and to call his boss. I also told him to tell his boss what was going to happen if they came back. I guess they understood as they hunted the next point over and left us alone to enjoy a nice evening together.

All was going fine but to warn me in a threatening tone tripped my freakin trigger. I guess that tactic works on some people but not me. But Mr. Guide from Sante Fe, Texas thank you anyway for building a nice blind. I do have a suggestion. Make the bench a little more comfortable next year. I am going to hunt your blind all day, but would prefer a better seating arrangement. Oh and if you could build up the west side of the blind with more brush it would be greatly appreciated, I got a little sun burn.

Lol

"I don't want to fight but"

"well you best get to going jr"

You shouldn't pick on kids like that wal. It's not nice.

I'll get some pics of my wife's foot wide smile holding her redhead duck. Right now I am in the midst of making a big pot of gumbo.

shouldn't she be cooking while you upload the photos?

Wal I know I am fixing to start something here but..... gotta say it anyway when you work on the water all year building blinds ,brushing blinds looking for birds etc everyday spent trying to get ready for the next duck season it does aggrevate you when someone comes along and just sits down to enjoy all your hard work and time

I started duck hunting when I was 12 on public Lake Livingston to be exact we built blinds put out decoys and left them out all year and NO ONE would ever touch your decoys or hunt your blinds
Now thats why I hunt private almost everyday because all the NEW BREED duck hunters I use that term sparingly because I have met some very good new duck hunters and it does not matter how many times you have been it is a matter of respect
That is why me and my buddy hunt so much private stuff on just a friendship , if we see the landowner at the local cafe we stop and buy him dinner/breakfast etc. lots of times you never get too pay the check as he pays it "going to the bathroom "
But we offered , also if he is working cows we stop climb on a horse and help , pick up all trash and close and leave gates as we find them , send him a bottle of his favorite liking
Saying all this glad you had a good time and if had of been me I would have went to another of MY blinds or invited you to hunt with us by the way I dont have ANY blinds on the bay

Yeah right! She is still sleeping, we didn't get in until late late last night. She doesn't like cooking anyway.

Periods are your friend

Glad you had a good hunt, and it all worked out nicely.

That is the way it has always been down there, people build blinds and lay claim. Many outfitters leave decoys set all season. Not saying that is right at all, but that is what has worked for them for decades. I agree though about the number of blinds being excessive now, and abandoned, non productive blinds have littered the bay systems (not that you can't find fish around them). The amount of pressure the coast is getting these days, from both locals and people from out of town, continues to build and I assume they are figuring out it doesn't work as well as it used to.

I rarely hunt others blinds, and still set up my own temporary ones when I hunt. But I do hunt built blinds on weekdays, or bad weather days, where it is not likely to encounter the owner. My rule of thumb is if I hunt someone's blind I allow just enough time to get set up and hunt instead of camping out in it to allow those who built it have first crack at it. That's just me, and you are dead on about it being public. If I set out 7 dozen decoys, I wouldn't have wanted to leave either.

Glad to hear you guys had a good time, now where are the pictures of ducks?

well i'm glad she had the experience to see the ducks on the bay. I personally never have, but hoping i can get a trip together for next year and get some redheads, pintails, and maybe even some blondes

I see both sides....I bet the young guy was suppose to be at the blind a lot earlier to secure it for the group. I have said it before and will say it again. I hate how texas does it public hunting. In Ks, most places have a lottery drawing for spots. You get picked, you can put up you own blind. If you are not there 30 min before LST, someone else can hunt it. The system worked awesome when I lived there years ago.

I agree actually! I wish it were a matter of just repsect. I have built over 100 blinds on the bay. I have had them burned, material stolen, you name it. I used to be loud and proud about not hunting another's blind. On the bay I was at, there is not one point that does not have an outfitter's blind. 10 miles of beach and not one point is without a blind. No more burned down blinds, no more stolen material no more weekends building blinds. I'll just ease on out and go where I want to go. I am now down in the ditch fellas.

that's when i prefer to go hunting

well i'm glad she had the experience to see the ducks on the bay. I personally never have, but hoping i can get a trip together for next year and get some redheads, pintails, and maybe even some blondes [/quote]

When it is right, its right. It was like the old days these last couple weeks, 12 at a time and feet down in the deeks.

I love telling her to load up quick we could get more in here. Of course she no listen and boom there they are and she has an empty gun. Ha! That will learn her.

lol


man iv hunted livingston plenty and the ones who hunt it enough know its better to just not build a blind...thats pretty much like saying...hey come hunt my spot

Glad yall had a good time Wal! you picked a good weekend not to come this way...it was slow

Periods are your friend [/quote]

Not around my house they're not! I live with 3 women.....

Sorry, had to say it

Dawg ha ha thats good me too and the 4th coming up she is 3 .......... horrible child ha ha ha not really

I got my wife and 11 year old daughter...with 2 female dogs to boot! I don't have a chance.......

It may come to that. That is when I quit hunting public. I have hunted 38 seasons at the bay. I got away from it as I thought I was tired of it. I have discovered I can't leave it. You see it is not the ducks alone that draw me to it. It is more importantly the freedom. I can go where I dern well please and not even the government can tell me what to do as long as I am legal. If I want to go there, then I go there. If I want to go here then I go here.

I enjoy seeing the sun set. I enjoy throwing 6 decoys at a time thanks to the Texas rig. I like the whole experience. Right up until Jr. came along and tride to tread on my freedom with a threatening tone. He didn't step on duck hunting alone he stepped on my freedom. More important than that he put the thought in my wife's head thinking there was going to be a confrontation. Threaten me, OK I mad. I'll get over it. Alter my wife's good time or worse scare her, I will go into what is called reptillian brain activity! I promised her father I would take care of her. I promised in God's house I would be her protection. Those are two promises I intend to keep.

Maybe one day they will outlaw guided hunts on the bays. One day.

^^^^^^^^
THIS
^^^^^^^^

To hunt there, you really have no choice. Every reasonable spot on the public shoreline has a blind now. If you hunt between the blinds, you risk having hunters too close to you on both sides that screws up everyone's hunt. I would think a guide would rather you hunt one of his blinds than hunt the bank downwind from a blind he has paying clients in. The guide knows he can't claim ownership and knows it is public, but I think it is just an expected part of the game for them to try and run people off the blind on the chance they leave it. A public hunter calling his bluff and staying is also part of the game. I imagine this is just another day at the office for them. If this is the outfitters livelyhood and he had paying clients he should have sent his employee out at 3am and secured the blind.

Haha, I am glad you stood up to him.

I was gonna say the same thing. The outfitters errand boy should have been there earlier.

May not be legal if enforced. Posted by another forum member a couple years ago. If one reads actual wording in TPWD code, there is no distinction between land and water when it talks about accepting pay or other consideration. Not to mention the land under the water that the blinds are sitting on is public land owned by the General Land Office. The state addressed land under public water as property when they created Sec. 62.0061. HUNTING ON OR OVER CERTAIN SUBMERGED LAND.

-----Original Message-----
> From: TPWD@prodweb2.tpwd.state.tx.us
> [mailto:TPWD@prodweb2.tpwd.state.tx.us]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 8:41 PM
> To:
> Subject: Web Site - E-MAIL REPLY REQUESTED - Hunting on Public Lands in Texas
>
>
> *** E-mail reply requested!
>
> Comment or Question:
>
> Is it legal for professional hunting guides to charge money to
> take people hunting on public land like the LBJ grasslands here
> in Texas? also what kind of insurance do these guides need to
> have in case of an accident? Also is there some kind of permit
> these guides need to have in order to do business in Texas?


> From: hunt <hunt@tpwd.state.tx.us>
> Date: February 24, 2011 7:40:17 AM CST
> To:
> Subject: RE: Web Site - E-MAIL REPLY REQUESTED - Hunting
>
> They are unable to do so since they would not be able to that
>since a Hunting Lease license is required of a landowner or
>landowner's agent who leases hunting rights to another person
>on property they own or control for pay or other consideration.
>The license must be displayed on the property.
> The guide is not the landowner or landowner's agent
>since they do not own the property nor lease it since it is
>open to all the public to utilize. They also would not be able
>to acquire a Hunting Lease license due to the open statement.
>
>

I say out law guided hunts on public period. I believe first come first serve that's the reason we get up at 2 am and go out and if the place we want to hunt has a blind so be it. It's public. To me it's sad guys get payed 100 bucks and min of 2 or 3 people to take you to a public spot. Just my openion.

I don't disagree with guides taking people to public. Some people may not get to go if not for a guide.

To be honest, had Jr. pulled up and asked to speak to me and told me he was in a fix because he was not watching the blind like he was supposed to, I probably would have told him to help me pick up and I would move down the way. Take a threatening tone with me could have him in for more than he would expect. I am not saying I can whopp every man on the planet, I am saying I am a nice person and don't lookl for stuff to get into. I am pretty kind hearted even when someone is just plain stupid. I get raging arse angry when threatened with my wife present. I was near out of my mind and I think he could see it as he turned and went to the boat faster than I could have waded out to catch him.

How many nice people have you meet on public I say it's a 50/50 split I have had a few times this year the bad Runins with people wanting to set up to dang close. But at the same time have had same letting people join and had a fun hunt. I gues it's all just who you run into and there personality. It's just the same with the guides I guess 50 pos and 50 cool as hell.

And wal I'd like to think of ya of a nice person for that last comment about the kid owning up to not watching it. I'm young myself and crappy part is very few of us will admit or say that we screwed up. Sorry for my generation of people. ( hopefully we will learn) I hope every one has had a good season and may the last week be the best.good luck every one.

Seams ridiculous that guides are allowed to use public domain to run there businesses on anyways? I'm self employed in a business that utilizes public property to the tune of $6k-$15k a weekend in rental fee's when we use them. I applaud the guides that only hunt private/friends property. They have secured their customers a quality place to hunt and can scout/hunt the water without interference. Those are the men that will get my business. Guiding on public property just seams like a racket to me, no overhead(for property) and the same standard $150 a morning fee.

The guide's know they are in the wrong. It looks like they are just going to fight it until enough of a stink is made. I hate when they get on here griping about how it is killing their business. Adapt or die.

The days of building a blind on public and thinking that holds your spot are over. Unless you are in a special place that has a blind draw system then all spots are first come first serve. I think this thread should remind people of that. I'm glad Wayne handled it the way he did and this should teach others. I think a lot of well meaning hunters would let themselves get bullied off by guides. I can see why a guide would want to take whatever spot...money is on the line. But if they are getting beat to the punch then they are not doing a good job and I don't feel sorry for them.

sound like a Boy Scout! Haha!

WAL, if I lived closer to you, I would come on over and drop off a case of beer for you to have with your gumbo.

The "guides" have built blinds on every spot to shut out people who just want to freelance hunt on the bays.

Rockport has become a zoo and eventually someone will be killed out there.

Almost every camera and phone has video capability now. Even if only recording audio in the dark, It is both a powerful weapon and a powerful defense. Not to mention how popular the right clip could be on utube. If I ever run into a situation like this, that camera around my neck or that phone in my hand will be recording.

Thanks Wayne for posting this story, everyone should be taking notes, that’s how to handle this situation.

I would gladly let anyone join me and hopefully vice versa, assuming there is a reasonable amount of blind room. The only problem I have with that is getting checked by the warden. You never know what people may be hiding, and its everyone's a** on the line at that point.

Very nicely done Wayne. I would have handled it the same way.

Glad I read this thread, and have a different view of blinds on public water. Build all you want, but don't be upset if someone is in it before you for the morning hunt. Want to guarantee the spot, get there first.

Now one question, which I think is the most important on this topic, did you add okra to your gumbo?

No I was going to but the store I went to didn't have any okra. The next store was 20 miles away so I just went home.

Glad your still getting after them down there.
Forget about that guy like you said boss man probably said hey get out there and reserve the blind and he was off trying to catch trout when he should have been sitting there holding the spot. I bet a lot of times trying to intimidate people works so he was just trying his game to see if you would call his bluff or not.

It is sad especially in Texas as more and more private land owners refuse to lease for liability and lakes get developed more and more hunters get pushed to public lands. Its especially bad for duck hunters because everyone wants a lake house with a view. There just isn't enough public land in the state to go around and its only going to get worse.

No doubt it will get worse. I have seen it change from hardly anyone hunted the coast to a madhouse at the coast. I have also seen it change from a fellowship of friendly duck hunters to some downright nasty behavior on and off the water.

Guess I'll speak up for those of us that guide on public waters. There are those of us who guide on public waters and do it right and then there are the a-holes that think that every state waterway is their private waters. I ave been guiding on public waters, and some private lakes as well, for 17 years. Yes, there has been a time when a spotlight has hit my face on the way into an area at dark thirty. Did I ride up and start beeching folks out? nope, just turned the boat to area B and headed that direction. Most of the guides I know that also hunt public waters do the same. There are some cats out there that give those of us doing it right, a bad name...especially down on the coast. First of all, I do not build blinds. That is basically showing the world where birds love to spend their time. I ain't dropping one dime of my coin or one drop of my sweat for others to potentially enjoy the fruits of my money and labor. Rather I, and other public water guides that I am friends with, get our arses up out of bed and go secure the area. I do not hunt anywhere near other hunters. Closest group I have ever had setup by me is 300 yards. Most times we are at the least 500 yards ans sometimes up to miles from anyone else. I guide mostly during the weekdays when pressure is at its lowest as well. So ya see, we ain't all bad guys. Just a few rotten appples in the bunch. And like Wal said, some folks wouldn't get to go hunting otherwise. Also, some folks enjoy running lakes, rivers or bays on the way to their hunt. They find it part of their "experience" of the hunt rather than just plopping down in a layout blind around a cattle tank. I will say this though...in all honesty, I wish there were some way to regulate guide services in Texas. I know of many cats doing it right and then there are many new ones popping up everyday that are a joke and just wanna be called " guides" because it some how makes them feel " bonified" as a waterfowler among their peers. Sad, but just part of what waterfowling today is becoming. Carry on..........

WAL, I admire your self control when the kid started to throw out veiled threats in front of your wife. That would have burned me up! In my younger days, I would have fed him his own waders, but you handled it the right way.

I would have also engaged the guide at my earliest convenience. Not to pick a fight, but to inform him about the circumstances that led up to Jr's little lesson on people skills. I don't know any guides that would allow that kind of behavior from one of their staff. Especially if he threatened another hunter while dropping their name as if the guide were some hotheaded neanderthal that would show up with 5 moderately drunk good'ol boys to "encourage" the hunters to leave. No, the guide who this kid works for needs to be made aware of the incident. That kind of behavior is what gets people killed.

I would understand their irritation if it already has a full spread of deeks, yet someone still hunts the blind. I've talked with a few guides that will put out the spread, then go pick up the clients. Ugly words would be said if Barney claimed it while guide is picking up the clients.

Most of the guides I've talked to have no problem with someone hunting their blind. They only request that you find one that doesn't have a spread. Most of them pick up after the hunt, so it's not like they leave them out for the season so no one else can hunt it.

I tried to google the name of the outfit to no avail. I was going to go have a meeting with the outfitter. He will just have to learn on his own as someone will hand him his hired hand with his waders turned inside out and him still in them one day. They have the name stenciled in the blind. I though about making a stencil that says "Please hunt my blind as often as you can". Those are just wild thoughts about having some fun with it. I also thought about a stencil that says "Please visit Garret's, your local biker gay bar". Just thinking out loud of course.

Can you legally leave decoys out on a public waterway overnight? Would it be considered littering?

I know you must pick up everything at the public WMAs and NWRs I hunt, but I assumed that in a public waterway of Texas it would be illegal to leave decoys out even overnight. Rising and falling tides and strong winds can easily pull them out in the middle of a bay and get caught in people's prop etc. Seems a tad unethical towards the public water we all get to enjoy too.

Nice pics WAL

I know! I ran off the second day in a row and forgot to bring the card with the pics on it.

man o man

Just came across this and I know it's a month later but people are not paying for a killed animal as they do on private land. People are paying for your personal knowledge of a public hunting area. I think my hard work and sweat and hour's and hour's and hour's sometimes year's of hunting an area should be worth a few buck's to let other's in on the secret's. They are 99% of the time new hunter's as well and it is not hey this is how you kill somethin' it is hey this is how you hunt and I'm gonna show you how to properly set out to hunt safely have a good time and hunt not kill! I know when I pay money to go to private land I better kill somethin' or it is usually a bust. That is why I am going and why I am spending hard earned money right?!?!?!?! If I wanted to pay 1,000 to get away it would be a deserted island with a margarita not some ranch that's hot and sweaty in a muddy duck marsh. If someone comes up with a great business Idea and they sell it, then that is no different than me coming up with a great hunting area and year's of hunting experience and selling it. I can't tell you how many people and mostly DAD'S that have thanked me over and over for showing them and their children how to hunt and have fun at a place where they can go back as many times as they like for free. Where on the other hand they could go to a ranch and pay by the bird and learn how to shoot and that's about it. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have ton's of money for big ranches or fortunate enough to have someone show them how to hunt. So a dirt cheap $150 to show them for a lifetime is a steal considering it probably cost the guide gas in the truck and boat, drink's snack's and a day out of his short life to show them. Give me a break people there are million's of public acres in texas. I have never sold a kill on public land but there has been a few people pay for my resources and knowledge of hunting and the outdoor's. Which usually balances out to gas and food for the day. To the guy's who are guiding on public land. I tip my hat to you gent's and ladies for keeping the hunting tradition alive for those less fortunate people who can't afford the BIG cost's of hunting these day's!

Pot, meet kettle!

I am not too sure if I know what you're trying to say. I think it is in line with guides are doing a good service to those that need a hand. If that was the jist of what you typed, I agree. You have to remember, I was one of them. Never again though!

You need to read the story and understand there is a bigger issue derived from that whole wierd experience. It goes far beyond the hunt, guide client relationship ect. The point is the little bastage stepped on my freedoms. He altered my wife's nice evening hunt and scared her. The first one was illegal, the second was dangerous for him.

He is lucky he is not facing criminal charges. Better yet he is lucky I didn't take a slat out of the blind, drag him on shore and paddle his arse until it looked nothing short of a phillipine's caning.

You will be very well accepted into this conversation. I must ask you before you defend any public guide, to read exactly what happened and see the bigger picture. If this had been just about a duck hunt getting ruined, I never would have posted this. It goes way beyond the little picture of duck hunting.

I'm really glad that he didn't come to the blind that Rick and I were hunting. We were only a couple of blinds down from where this happened that day. The same guide service had their name stenciled in the blind we used and it was a really nice blind.

Here's my issue with it....you have a lot of Guides running legit operations and going through the trouble and expense to provide clients with hunts on land where they will not being disturbed. Then you have guides that gamble with your time on public land. I own a business, that is not a legit product. It reminds me of the folks that sell stuff on the side of the road. If you wish to run a business, run a legit business, thats all I'm saying.

I have no problem with them running a business on public. They can do what they want as long as they leave me and my kin alone. It was when they went poking a stick that got me hot as an August pepper on the border.

I am a fun loving kind of guy. Nowhere in my DNA is a violent nature. I kind of feel it is against my nature. Scare my wife and my DNA changes.

Do you turn green like the hulk? Or maybe red like the pepper you speak of?

I would imagine my face was pretty red. My heart was pounding because the adrenaline flow was starting. I hate that adrenaline high. Once the rush quits it leaves you in a hung over state. That aint really good for the human body.

Dang. I was hoping you turned green.

go easy