Big Boars are AMAZINGLY tough !!!

I shot this ole boy last night with my 300 HAM'R 125gr Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos bullet from 125yds. I've shot 97 hogs YTD with this new bullet testing it and it's proven to be a very deadly projectile.

I hate to chase hogs into the thickets, so I almost always shoot for a spine shot and try to get a quartering to me angle so in case I miss the spine the bullet goes into the lungs. I call this my plan A and B shot. That's the shot I took on this hog.

Just to show you how tough these guys can be I put a stick into the entrance hole, even with this basically perfect shot placement with a deadly bullet he still ran 75yds !!! After the shot he ran off with NO indication of a hit at all, it was like I shot into the air.

This just goes to show you that there are lots of hogs killed that aren't recovered, because most people don't put as much effort into finding them as I do, nor do they have the thermal advantage to find them.

Big or small, if you fail to do significant CNS damage to the hog, either directly (directly impacting the upper spine, brain stem or brain with the bullet) or indirectly (hydrostatic shock to the brain or hydraulic shock to the spine), then the hog will run. Medium velocity rounds such as the 300 ham'r are less apt to cause hydrostatic shock and the larger the target, the more the problem is compounded. So you are left with a hog that will run until it suffocates or bleeds out which will finally shut down the CNS.

75 yards isn't too bad at all for a double lunch shot. I have had them run up to 100 yards with a double lunged .45-70 and nearly that far with a double lung .308 shot. The hog was effectively dead when you hit it. You had turned off the air supply. It just ran until it exhausted what was currently in the system.

Yep, doesn't surprise me at all.

When you consider a hog 'can' run up to 30 mph. But let's just say it ran away at 20 miles per hour. It would cover 75 yds in about 7.5 seconds. Time of hit to unconsciousness 7.5 to 10 seconds....sounds about right to me. Or at least I've experienced that many, many times with hogs of all sizes.

I don't think that makes them 'tough' necessarily. Knock one down and it gets back up and runs, maybe. Absorb multiple hits to the vitals and keeps running....sure!

I'm not real familiar with the cartridge but I expect the velocity at the impact distance was not too far behind what a .308 would be....so plenty. But some animals (hit similarly) just run farther or act differently than others.

What matters is another hog is dead and Bill keeps on killing them.

If they don't drop within sight, or we can't blood trail them really easily, then we just watch for the buzzards over the next few days. Some make it that far with multiple vitals hits.

The caliber is a slightly hotter version in the .300 blk/7.62x39 realm. So you have a .30 caliber bullet that is fired at about equal or slightly less than 6.5 Grendel velocity. For the weight, that is going to place it several hundred FPS below .308. Whereas the ham'r gets about 2150-2225 fps for a 125 gr. bullet, the velocity from a .308 would be around 3000-3100 fps. While the same weight bullets will have the same BC, the ham'r's bullets are well below that in weight of what is typically fired from a .308. When compared to a typical .308 150-165 gr. bullet, the lighter ham'r bullets are going to have a lower BC than .the 308 and will slow more quickly on the way to the target. So it is starting off at a deficit from the muzzle as compared to .308 and that deficit increases over distance because of the lower BC. The nice benefit is that you get a .30 cal hole from an AR15 (not AR10) platform and much less recoil than a .308 with the ballistics being fine for typical hunting distances.

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/300-HAMR-LOAD-DATA-5-20F1.pdf
https://www.nosler.com/308-winchester-125gr-ballistic-tip-hunting-ammunition.html

Man some pigs just don’t wanna die !

Crazy story:

Few weeks ago I went out and stalked up on a group of pigs at around 50-60 yards . I was using my suppressed short barrel 45-70 shooting 550 grain cast bullets . Shot one pig and dropped him . He stands back up and is wobbling around and turning . Send another and drop him . Stand there for a few minutes looking around and walk up to him . He’s still breathing , could see hit on shoulder and in the gut . Put barrel about 6” from his head , shoot , pig squeals and shook his head a few times got up and charged me . Luckily I was real close to him so when he turned his head was past my body . His blood got all over my hand / gun / suppressor as he brushed up against me . This all happened it pitch black darkness. Crazy thing is , I never found the pig even with my thermal mono

My muzzle velocity is 2420fps from a 16" barrel

I've killed the vast majority of the 3000+ hogs I've killed with three calibers: 6.8SPC, 300 HAM'R and .308 Win.. I've had much better success with both the 300 HAM'R and .308 than the 6.8 and they definitely give more margin for shot placement error. But I actually see minimal difference between the HAM'R and the .308, certainly not enough for me to deal with the increased weight and recoil. Sure the HAM'R will have less hydrostatic shock, but I honestly see very little difference in how quickly it kills hogs and deer compared to the .308..

They will hurt you too if you get to relaxed around them!!! I've been charged by "dead" hogs more than once.

The toughest hog I've ever killed was a 140#ish sow, shot her broadside on the shoulder with a .308 Win 165gr Hornady SST (this in the deadliest bullet I've found for .308), she ran and ran....... When I got to her I paced back to my firing position where I left my shooting sticks, 110 long paces!!!!

Yes, I am well aware the physics of ballistics (having been an avid re-loader for over 50 years)....and your points are well taken. Mine was not to compare the same bullet weights in different cartridges, but to say that the velocity upon impact likely had the Ham'r only slightly behind a .308 with a 150 gr. bullet (a popular and well known cartridge/bullet combo). Also remember to draw your muzzle velocities from like barrel lengths (about 16" in this case).

That said, the impact velocity of the Ham'r at 125 yds. should have been plenty and it appears it was. Shot placement given the angle is exactly where I would have aimed as well. Some hogs just don't react like the vast majority would when hit similarly. You know that, I know that, and Mr. Wilson knows that. We've all shot enough hogs to have nearly 'seen it all'. All things considered...I will always argue the idea that hogs are especially 'tough' animals, that hasn't been my experience.

I don't think the one in the original post ran any astonishing distance considering the vitals hit and the angle. Even if other times they dropped or went a shorter distance.

I shot a buck one time at a distance of 85 yds. with a .270, hit it squarely through the heart. It ran 115 yds. and jumped a fence before piling up. Upon field dressing I found the heart to be just a bloody, jelly like blob of tissue.The buck was running dead on its feet (so to speak). Everyone was amazed at the distance covered but when you consider how fast a deer can run in just few seconds it is perfectly understandable. I think a similar event happened here.

I've read that a human who is shot through the heart still has sufficient oxygen in their brain for about ten seconds or so of activity. I guess hogs are similar. I've had two occasions where I shot a hog through the heart and they both ran, covering between 150-200 yards before they dropped. The blood trail looked like someone had given a 4-year old a spray can of red paint with the button locked down. It started off really strong and obvious and gradually quit to almost nothing.

But, the real message here is that soon-to-be-dead hogs can cover a lot of ground before they finally collapse.

Nice boar !

Absolutely. If you don't shut down the CNS, you end up with a dead hog running, only it doesn't know it is dead.

LOL, remember to draw your muzzle velocities from same weight bullets. Okay, guys over at Predator Masters are getting 2850-2930 fps from .308 125 gr. pills from a 16", still many hundreds of FPS over 300 ham'r. The two aren't even close.

Agree on velocity, but after killing hundreds of hogs with both 300 HAM'R and .308 I can't tell much difference in terminal performance between the two when shooting hogs/deer at under 300yds. Both are very effective. Also keep in mind that light .30 cal bullets designed for varmints in a .308/.30-06 act more like a controlled expansion bullet when pushed at HAM'R velocity. The Sierra 135gr HP is a perfect example of this, it's explosive out of a .308, but performs similar to a ballistic tip out of the HAM'R.

Sigh....oh Brian.

Apparently...I am still not making my point. I take the blame for that. I am purposely not comparing same weight bullets....but focusing on velocity because:

You wrote: Medium velocity rounds such as the 300 ham'r are less apt to cause hydrostatic shock and the larger the target,

I suppose we would need to define 'Medium Velocity' but the velocity of Bill's load from his rifle using a 125 gr. bullet is about 2400 fps. The velocity of most cartridges (150 gr. bullet) for a .308 from a 16" barrel are going to come in around 2500 fps or thereabouts.

The heavier bullet will retain its energy and velocity better downrange....but at 125 yds. the impact velocity of the two (125 gr. Ham'r and 150 gr. .308) are not very much different. Penetration could be markedly different but the ability to create hydrostatic shock (owing to velocity) for both .30 caliber bullets would still be ideal with impact velocities of 2400 fps or better.

Neither offering churning up enough (at that distance) to provide much benefit from hydrostatic shock, but both having plenty of velocity and bullet weight for good penetration (bullet construction matters a lot here). I would expect either to perform pretty well and Bill's experiences on hogs tends to bear this out.

Nice going.

They sure are

Everybody dances around muzzle velocities or bullet weight. It's both in combination. Momentum is mass times velocity MV. Kinetic energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared, or 1/2 MV2. A 180 gr bullet travelling at 2500 FPS will have 50% more kinetic energy and momentum than a 120 gr. bullet travelling at the same velocity. Some know-it-alls on here say it doesnt matter but it does. Basic physics.

The other part of the issue on body damage has to do with the force exerted. Force equals mass times acceleration F=MA. In the case of the bullet, it's really deceleration. A 150 gr. bullet that mushrooms and stays 100% intact will exert more force in a more concentrated area vs. a hollow point that fragments on impact. Now we introduce the term hydrostatic shock, which is the dissipation of that force. The greater the force, the greater the shock. The law of conservation of momentum says the momentum transfers into the body of the pig

When I was diddling with 168 gr. And 175 gr HPs I had more runaways. Why? The dissipation of force is different than a SP that mushrooms nicely. More shock to the system. DRT vs. looking in thickets. Convinced me to stick with SPs. 6" penetration vs 18" penetration? That's your deceleration difference.

So, all things being equal, look for the best combination of penetration (minimum) and retention of bullet ( maximum).

Or pray and spray.🤷‍♂️🥴😉

I shoot them behind the ear and a hair low or not at all. DRT.

https://shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

I have seen hogs and deer run upto and over 100 yards from lung shots with multiple different power levels. 243, 257 Roberys, 7X57, 7-08, 7STW, 308, 30-06, 350 RM, 44 Mag and 45-70 to name some. Like said earlier CNS shots are the reliable drop on the spot shots but in hunting that can be missed by a little and a lower shot is often fatal but high is often recovered from.

I believe how far an animal can go after a lung shot depends on how full of air the lungs are the fuller of air yhe less instant the effect of the shot will be. I have shot deer on cold days and timed the shot with the exhale that you could see their breath and they dropped like a CNS hit.

Some just die hard

Ive drilled some and they've ran 200 yards and I have hit some a little back and they dropped

I watched a friend drill one dead center of his guts w a 30-06 and he never took a step

Drawing the muzzle velocities from the same bullet weight is a great start but you may also want to consider drawing your quoted velocities from the same end of the reloading tables.

The velocity gap on 300HAM'R and .308win closes considerably in 125gr loads if you don't cite "starting load" numbers for the HAM'R and then go more toward or even over the max load velocities people are quoting in the PM forums.

All of my 125gr HAM'R projectile loads are +- 20fps of 2500fps without pressure indications out of 16" barrels. That actual muzzle velocity measured with a Labradar is above WC published max for CFEBLK because they are compressed handholds that have to be hand tamped down to seat and properly pass an ammo case gauge test.

"In my experience" You can't put enough CFEBLK powder in a HAM'R case and seat one of the 110gr or 125gr recommended bullets to the particular published seating depth and see pressure signs out of any of my multiple HAM'R barrels. With the WC recomended 110gr and 125gr projectiles I've used you bulge the case while seating the bullet before you ever hit the point of getting flattened primers or loose pockets.

Pigs are tough but so are other game animals and the somewhat rare example of a truly determined human.

In shooting pigs I have come full circle. I'll make every attempt at any CNS shot offered in the sittuation and then I'll shoot the rest one by one until they give up the will to try to stand up. Everyone works too hard and already has too long of a day to be checking every group of swarming buzzards from squirters that made it into the brush.

Shot this one on the point of the shoulder last night (100 yds) with my handload (7mm-08) 160 gr. federal trophy bonded bullet and it ran about 40 yards before piling up.

Them b some whickit looking bullets...

They're good on hogs. Anything that shoots a .284" bullet.




But a 'Wicked' bullet is a 540 gr. hardcast from my 458 SOCOM.

I’m sorry but comparing the Hamr to the 308 Win is a ridiculous as comparing the Grendel to the 6.5 Creedmoor or the 6.8 SPC to the 270 Winchester.

I have no doubt it’s fantastic in the AR15 as are the 6.8 Spc and 6.5 Grendel. On the subject of hogs, some can be very hard to kill no matter what you shoot them with. Most aren’t.

Nobody actually did that. Go back and read again. ONLY velocity was mentioned (since it was a subject brought up concerning hydrostatic shock) and the .308 is a familiar cartridge. The kinetic energy between the two was never the subject (and it was stated). Sheeesh....comprehension folks.

You made a corrective statement that was incorrect. Comparison with .308 has been made several times in this thread. I brought it up showing the same results of a hog running happens with other calibers like .308. Then you said that you weren't familiar with .300 ham'r but that you figured it must not be too far behind .308. Bill then said it killed better than a .308. These are most assuredly comparative statements. kmon11 made the comparison of results using .308 and several other calibers. These are comparative statements.

Scott NEVER mentioned kinetic energy. You, however, did, along with energy.


As you say, "Sheeesh....comprehension folks"

Brian, I simply acknowledged that I knew the 'energy' figures would be different, seeking to avoid that comparison (as was bound to happen) since my point revolved around VELOCITY and nothing more. Both subjects covered in the quote you cited, right. You still don't see that?

Me thinks you are just looking for argument.

Scott wasn't discussing energy, so I don't see why you called him out on it. And, comparisons have been made with .308 even by you and on the topic of energy. Again, your words, "Still you don't see that?"

It actually was mentioned on this thread. I’m not dogging the round, if you read what I posted.

After killing hundreds of hogs with the .308 and well over 1000 with the 300 HAM'R I can honestly tell you that I see very little difference in terminal performance on hogs and deer between the two. No argument the .308 has more velocity and energy, but REAL WORLD experience has proven this doesn't necessarily make it kill any better. Shot placement and bullet performance on impact are always the key to clean kills, end of story!

The other caliber that I've shot lots of hogs with is the 6.8 SPC and I can assure you that both the 300 HAM'R and .308 kill hogs and deer better. By "better" I'm referring to putting them on the ground quickly and not having to go into a thicket to look for them.

It really comes down to margin of error. You can kill hogs all day long with a 5.56 shooting them behind the ear, but your margin for error is very small compared to shooting them in the neck or shoulder with a .30 cal..

i dont know much about anything going on here, so ill just leave this and say nothing.

Wow !!!

Two years ago when 300 Bludgeon was released I scoffed at the marketing saying that it performs as well or better than 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel.

I was booed out of the main thread and it’s all good , I dip in and out to see what REAL WORLD results folks are getting (cue the JAWS theme music). DJones illustrates the point quite well and so I guess I’ve conceded at this point to accepting the initial marketing claims.

But then this thread quickly turned into an indirect marketing message that twice now clearly says that the 300 ballping kills as effectively as a 308 Winchester. My oh my we’ve elevated the claims me’thinks to generate more hype and sales , let’s not think the thread her on THF isn’t a major resource for generating sales…

I’m with Scottfromdallas on this one, I don’t see anyway the two calibers kill the same and in the real world I’ve hunted 6.5 grendel and creemoor , 6.8 Spc and 270 win, they kill plenty different.

You know the truly interesting thing is, in two more years I’m betting we will read from a 300 Slammer celebrity that it kills just as well as a 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM…..

I felt the same way going from a .308 to 6.5 Grendel.

Nice video, DJ!

I moved from a .308 to a 300 Blackout. Lot's of folks denigrate the 300BLK, and I'll certainly admit that it has nowhere near the equivalent knockdown power of a .308, but I've been pretty happy with it overall. The ammo is cheaper, the weapon is lighter, and since I don't typically find myself taking shots at distances more than 125 yards, I find it very suitable.

Every now and then I think about returning to my AR-10, but the 'ease of use' factor (lighter weight, mainly) causes me to continue to pick up the 300BLK.

To each his own. If you're happy and you're killing hogs, keep at it!

Just to set the record straight, the following is the first line on the WC 300 HAM'R page on the website and has been there since we introduced the cartridge. Therefore this claim is not an "elevation". Also I still stand behind this statement 100%!

The 300 HAM’R® was developed with one thing in mind, OPTIMAL TERMINAL PERFORMANCE. It offers near .308 Winchester effectiveness on game animals with amazing accuracy and low recoil in the lightweight and compact WC15 platform.

You inspired me MR Wilson

I pulled out the 14.5” 308 and 125 grain sierra PHs and I’m enroute to the property now looking for an amazingly though hog to the play pitch and catch with.

I gotta know - in the last two years how many 300 Hog Hammer barrels and rifles have y’all sold ? Outside of LE and other special customers would I be correct in saying it’s your number 1 seller for the civilian market , by far ….

Do you plan to attend the NRA show next month ? What’s going to be the new items of interest shown there ? It’d well past time for a DJones 300 Ham’r action figure with signed photo !!!

Have a good weekend , I’ll post my vid with 308 goodness next week here

Real World PigPopper

Not owning any of the calibers argued about here (yet), I can’t comment on their effectiveness. But I can comment on slow bullets with probably little hydrostatic shock but great killing power. My old 35 Remington shot a 200 gr bullet at 2100 fps and went all the way through anything I ever shot. And it killed em dead and quickly. My 260 and 270 doesn’t kill ‘em any better, just further away. I’m thinking that the 300 Hamr works about the same way, with the right bullet.

Wow! It's amazing how many things I have learned from these forums. All this time I thought Dead was Dead. Now I have learned that there are calibers that kill something to a much deader dead than others. I will have to re-configure all my hunting rifles since the only kill things dead and not the real deader dead. This is going to cost me a bunch of money now.

Hope you get a big one

Actually our best selling calibers are in this order:
5.56
.300BLK
300 HAM'R
6.5CM
.308 WIN

I hope to be at the NRA show, but I'm having hip replacement surgery on Apr 28 so we'll just have to see....

The point of this conversation was.....

Some calibers and bullets "incapacitate" hogs faster than others and some hogs like the one in my first post of this thread are tougher than others and just don't realize when their dead.

I much prefer a hog to drop DRT (bang flop in redneck) right where it was standing when I shot and not have to go looking for it in the thicket even though it's just as dead. This especially applies to summer in TX when all the snakes are out!

LOL, Bill, snakes aren't only out in the summer in Texas. They are out anytime it is warm enough. We have had numerous threads here on THF on people encountering rattlesnakes and copperheads pretty much every month of the year.

Well I don't like them anytime of the year

Fortunately I haven't seen any yet this year

Hey best of luck with the surgery MR Wilson , I wish you a speedy and full recovery.

If you’re at NRA I’ll come by and say hi.

Technically, Bill was right when he said: This especially applies to summer in TX when all the snakes are out!

The rest of the time 'some' of the snakes are out.

👍

I don't care to run into them anytime either! I usually wear my gaters all year long. They also have the added benefit of protecting the lower legs from briars and other pokies.

Saw my first copperhead this year in late March on a gravel road. Saw another snake (non-poisonous) two nights ago, again on a gravel road. Of course, they are out and getting warm on the radiant heat from the sun-baked gravel, but they are also really easy to see there. No telling how many we pass by in the grass at night and never know it.

lve shot a water moccasin and 3 noisy danger noodles in the last week. I've seen 2 rattlers on the same property over the last couple years

Callgon take me away. At least I have a couple hundred pounds of .22lr

Mean looking too