TPWD public drawn hunts

I must agree with many of y'all that the TPWD drawn hunts have become much more difficult to win a drawn permit. The ability to apply for every hunt in every category with the inclusion of the post card and National refuge hunts seems to have really increased the volume of hunters applying for the hunts. On one hand, this is probably good financially for TPWD. On the other hand, it is a little frustrating for those of us who have been involved with these drawings for many years and are seeing our number of "selection notifications" drop to almost nada! I am concerned, but not sure if we should push for a change. What are y'all's thoughts?

What kinda changes are you talking about? They are not going back to the old system. This new system has some flaws but overall not that bad. I guess one change I would like to see is that you have to have a current hunting licencse in order to apply.

I agree with this post. But if you see what Texas is doing with the funds from the TPWD you might sing a different tune. More money but for whom?

Very interesting thoughts!! I am curious about if there has been a great increase in income for the TPWD. My wish would be that the funds be used to continue to support and maintain the state parks, wmas, and working folks who take care of Texas's public hunting lands. I am not particularly pushing to change what the draw system has evolved into, I will admit that the satisfaction in drawing a permit these days is much more gratifying now that the odds are much more difficult. The convenience of being able to apply for the post card and nat'l refuge hunts in the same system is quite nice.

I think that TPWD, like most other states with low cost drawings, should require applicants to buy a hunting license first. My guess is it would be revenue positive for TPWD, while increasing our odds for drawing.

One change I've noticed this year from years past, since TPW has gone to the computerized suystem that has got to be a no brainer for any 13 year old programmer...instead of selecting however many locations to pony up the $3 App Fee for and actualy being drawn for one of them, then cancelling all my other App's in that same given category....this year after I was drawn at a place that has a very poor record of success over the years, my other App's were forwarded to all the other locatons in that same category I had paid App fee's on for the Pending 2nd Round drawing ... and I am still in the game, AND I will attend the SP ( and generate a revenue stream that I have never been willing to spend at that location ever before ).

2nd new change is the small printed notice on a locations description to call for Stand By availablity...instead of beleiving that the computer programmers had eliminated the need for a Stand By starw drawing at the gate for the no shows and bounced check payments etc...and fill the Biologist's recc'd number of Hunters to harvest the approved # of critters...better management of the harvest, pleases the hard core hunters with a bonus for those of us willing and able to chase the Stand By Entry's...and BTDT and was worth my effort more often than not for a last minute Hunt. Just Sayin'.

Just Please Do Not ask me in public for my thoughts on the Legislatures continuing raids on TPW dedicated Fund Accounts ...I feel certain my 1st Amendment Rights of Free Speech would not hold up in court...
Ron

I am a non-resident, and that said, I have been applying since 1991 when I lived in Texas and I really enjoy the Texas Drawn Hunts program. I do purchase a regular hunting license every year for $315 dollars, and will continue to do so to hunt and apply. I think most of the people who apply would gladly pay an increased amount for application fees or the full price license in order to continue to apply for controlled drawn hunts. Hunt if we can, hate us if you will, there are a lot of states out there where we will help you do the same hunts if you want to... Enforce a 10% limit if you want, but we will still apply!

Blank...IMO this is a State Vs Federal tax revenue allocation issue.

No one I know in Texas wants the out of state Hunters dollars to stay home. Texas has a larger huntable game population than most states, and actually needs the Out of State Hunters to properly manage the Game populations.

However we all want to be treated fairly and equally in accessing the assets of FEDERAL Land in any given State, and feel like the Western States most of All abuse their access rights to Out of State Hunters to maximize the monetary return and giving unfair access to game animals to that States residents that ALL of our FEDERAL TAX $'s pay for, that is applied by the FEDERAL Government equally across the 50 states.

When I lived in Florida & Illinois my Federal Tax rates were the same as I had in Texas, OTOH my State Tax's, were funded by different approaches with Texas & Florida using Property Tax's, X's Illinois's more common Personal Income Tax. When I looked at moving to other states those different State Tax approches were a part of my considerations and prevented me from moving to several other states as I was on a fixed bracket rate paid by my empolyer nationwide for the same job....and I eventually came home to Dallas and travelled nationally instead...and wrote off my travel expense on my Federal Income Tax.

Now if I could exclude a "Western" or some other restricted access State from receiving my Federal Tax $'s I might have a different viewpoint.

This is nothing more and nothing less than Equal Protection under Federal Law, is the super short argument when you boil it all down.

To see how this would work, take a close look at what the Texas Dept Insurance Licensing Rules aka a "Goose & Gander to the penny, exam & educational level requirements, and # of Non Residnet Licenses granted to that State" approach are for Out of State Insurance Agents who want to sell their Insurance Products in Texas, with their State of Residence in another state...which is exactly what I am proposing for Out of State Hunters.... verbatim, line by line, chapter and verse.
Nothing More and Nothing Less.
JMHO & YMMV
Ron

Excellent point, Blank! I had not considered the point of view from a non-resident standpoint. It is a sort of hobby of mine to look for low cost, big game hunt drawings all over the United States. My personal investments in "out of state hunts" range from $10 for Pennsylvania Elk to over $700 for New Mexico elk. You are correct, I will also continue to apply in Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire for Moose tags. New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Wyoming, Montana, and Arizona for Elk and/or Mule deer and/or Bison tags. I guess in the grand scheme of things for the American hunters, the TPWD public drawing system ain't too shabby. Thanks for your perspective!

You are exactly the type of out of state hunter that we want in the system - one who doesn't mind ponying up the cash in exchange for using our resources. If everyone was required to buy a license before they could apply, I think it would solve most issues people have with the system. My frustration is the huge number of out of state guys who drop $20 on the most desirable hunts and screw up the odds for the rest of us, without making any contribution to the state.

WileyCoyote, You have the same rights to access federal land in other states that any resident does. Go hiking, camping, bird watching, etc. It belongs to all of us. However, it is not the Feds who manage game populations, that has been delegated to the individual states who can manage it as they see fit. You have equal access to the federal resource, just not the state resource.

100% correct. While certainly frustrating to see the small and ever decreasing odds of non-residents drawing tags, the bottom line is those wildlife species are managed by those states for their own residents, regardless of who owns the land. Want better odds of an elk tag in New Mexico? Move to New Mexico or what ever state you dream of hunting.

I believe that with all of this money it should definitely be reinvested in to TPWD programs of any kind and with the growing number of applicants and more money that means they should offer more and better hunts. More standby hunters should be accepted also.

basically more applicants means more hunts should be offered.

Blank has a good perspective and definitely points out the major flaw of the TPWD draw system - a license should be required to enter. That is what has kept me from applying to out of state drawn hunts, not a big enough hunting budget yet. It would be good to see that implemented in the near future.

I dont like it!! The reason they have public hunts is so they guy that cant afford a $20K hunt can go hunt. So having to spend a few hundred dollars on a license just to apply is ridiculous in my opinion and goes against what public hunting should be about. The govt is stepping on the little guy like usual.

The problem for non-residents who participate in the Public Drawn Hunts is "What type of license is required, in order to apply"? If all I want to apply for is an exotic hunt, I just need the 5-day special exotic license. Where none of the deer hunts require you to use the regular deer tag from your big license (a special one is provided by the WMA)why would you make a NR buy the $315 one for deer and turkeys? What if you don't draw any hunts, with only 4% public land, then that license is worthless.

My attempted solution to the issue would be simple. It would generate a lot more revenue, pay for the system, and keep everyone happy. Texas already has a lot of permits, certifications, and endorsements in a separate category. I really would like to see a one-time $10-20 stamp tied to my customer number every year just for Public Drawn Hunt applications.

Bigfoot, I have to agree with you! When I originally began applying with TPWD public land hunts, it was for the chance to hunt a place that was better organized than the "free-for-all" in the open public lands with the potential for a real trophy and/or exotics usually reserved for the high dollar hunts. The opportunity to hunt well managed public land should not be price prohibited. I guess maybe we should leave the TPWD draw as it currently is being conducted.

I don't believe in having NR's having to buy a license to apply. I apply for tags out of state and I don't have to buy their license first. What TPWD could do for NR's, is have them apply like in the old system. One place per category.
This is what I have noticed since the new system.
Fewer places in the draw.
Fewer permits in a hunt.
Fewer hunts in one place.
Every year they remove hunts or reduce the permits, I reduce my selections. I see people posting where they sent in over a $100 for these hunts. Me, 6 bucks!!! That's all they are getting from me. The more TPWD keeps cutting permits and places to hunt, I'll keep cutting my "donations"!!!

Me too.

Spent little over 300.00 in last 2 years applying for myself, son, and SIL. Notta, not one damn thing.

This year spending 18.00 for Matador. Already lost the 9.00 for antlerless, I am sure I will lose the other 9.00 on Sept 16th.

It would not have to be "a few hundred dollars". Oklahoma has a drawn hunt system for controlled hunts similar to ours, just not near as many opportunities. It requires non residents to have a hunting license to apply, but any hunting license is ok for this. Most non residents who enter OK's draw purchase a $75 5 day hunting license. It weeds out hunters not serious about going if drawn so not wasting hunting permits a resident could have used and not wasting land manager's time with no shows. It also prevents large organised anti hunting groups from screwing with the system by rallying members to apply.

The license a non resident buys also can be for any 5 days of that year, not the week of the draw. Years ago that encouraged me to pick dates during hunting season and drive over the river for a small game hunt or two to take advantage of the license. This now years later has caused me to buy a full license every year. I hunt and spend more hunting dollars in OK now than I do Texas.

Texas should follow the same model for the same reasons. The Texas non resident 5 day hunting license is only $48. If one can't afford $48 or $78, knowing it also increases their chance of drawing a hunt by weeding others out, they are not serious about hunting there anyway. Thus part of the problem.

Not for deer it isn't and most of the draw hunts are for deer. May be good for hogs and exotics, but not for deer.

you can apply for draw hunts before the new licenses come out. They would have to open the draws later after the current seasons license comes out. If not they would be going off of last seasons license and you wouldn't have to buy a new one unless you get drawn. In other words it wouldn't change anything.

Just change the date you can buy your licence to July 1st. I think buying a licence first is a good idea. It gives a bit of an advantage to residents because non-residents would be paying more for the licence. The biggest argument IMO though for buying a licence first is other states require us to buy theirs before entering their drawings.

I'd prefer other states stop requiring us to buy licenses before we can enter their draws.

This year makes our sixth season with the TPWD draw hunts. I must say that this opportunity is truly deeply appreciated. I cut my teeth nearly 22 years ago hunting Type 2 land in east Texas with my father. The majority of career hunting has been on public lands so a bit accustomed I may be but alot of great memories have been made. There is nothing I would trade for the countless memories made in this great state. A few times over the years I've had access to leases and paid day leases. Although I must admit that even with the few flaws that the drawn system my hold, in my book it is an amazing opportunity for the common man to get outdoors and enjoy this great state. One thing I have noticed is the literal bending over backwards for the youth that this state puts forth and before anyone starts in on how TPWD is trying to lure in more revenue from the up and coming generation there is still a deep rooted tradition in nurturing our youth in the great outdoors. I work out of town in the oil fields and have little time for scouting or maintaining a lease if one was even in the budget. Yes the hands of the oil patch do make a fair living but supporting a family takes every dollar. So high dollar $1500+ leases are a crunch in this ole boy budget. So I'm thankful for what Parks and Wildlife has given us. Have we had bummer hunts through the draw? Sure we have but met alot of truly awesome fellow Texans along the way and been able to hunt portions of this state I may never had. These opportunities have given me a chance to pass what flows deep in blood to my kids the same as my father and so many on the forum. Hats off to Parks and Wildlife!

BC ...Well said. Kudos for the thought.
Ron

I am a resident. My son and I are new hunters. No practical opportunities other than public hunts. Applied for two hunts in each of two categories last year. Bumped that to four in each of two categories this year. Selected for an early hunt this year. Seems like good odds. Was I extraordinarily lucky or did I just pick a location with drastically-fewer applications? I don't know but, I am grateful for the opportunity the present system has afforded me.

Regarding requiring a license to apply for draws, I would likely not have applied for the draws if I had had to buy a hunting license first. Even if I had, I would likely have gone for the cheapest license I could get. As it is, having won, I purchased super combos for both of us...plus the obvious public lands permit. I don't know how many people start their hunting through drawn hunts but, it is my entry into hunting.

Some folks have mentioned dwindling locations for hunts. I only know what I've read and that is that TPWD is adding more areas, including private land resources, for public hunting. Are they adding more locations for public hunting but reducing the areas having drawn hunts? If so, that would seem to indicate that regular public hunting is keeping the animals in check, without the need for special drawn hunts outside the normal seasons. I'm not sure how that can be associated with either the way the drawn hunts are administered or to allowing non-residents to apply.

I have been putting in on draw hunts for over 30 yrs. I've been drawn and I've had looong dry spells also. Last year in Jan. My SIL and I went to Elephant Mtn on a Javelina hunt. When we showed the staff was talking about the youth hunt the weekend before. They said that 0 people showed up for the hunt. No calls, No emails, all no shows. This was a waste of opportunities for other youth. This is a reason may be the youth permits should cost a small amount. If they have skin in the game they are more apt to show up. I don't know how much this goes on at other draws, but I have gone to a local draw to see if I could get stand-by. There was about 6 of us and they let all of us hunt after paying the fees. We have a great system, but we could work some kinks out too.

One would be foolish to buy the much more expensive Deer license just to apply for OKs controlled hunts when you can apply with the the cheaper 5 day license. Of course unless you are going to be hunting Deer someplace else in OK anyway. You would not be able to use your regular Deer Permit during an OK controlled hunt.
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Are deer, elk, antelope or turkey tags already purchased over-the-counter valid for Controlled Hunts?

No, all Controlled Hunt permits are purchased directly from the Department's License Section since they are bonus permits and do not count toward you season bag limit. You will receive written notification of the amount due if you are drawn.