ATN

I went to the gun show in Fredericksburg this weekend with a shooting buddy of mine who lives in Llano. We meet at the show site, shoot the breeze for a while, go into the show and then split up, since we "work" the show at different rates. We met again upon leaving the show and went to a eatery to do Show and Tell. First thing he tells me after we order is, "I'm into thermal, Mike!" Then he pulls out an ATN ThOR LT 3-6X. He asked me what was wrong with me, and I proceeded to tell him of my long and bad history with 2 different ATN products; how we felt like we were BETA testers for a new product and how the customer service sucked. Then it was his turn to get this stricken look on his face. I have no personal experience with the model he bought, just very bad memories from other products and services from the company. Do any of you know anyone who is using (or trying to use) this scope? Is there even a shred of good news coming from users? I did some research on the i'net and the reviews were mixed, but primarily bad. My friend called me this morning and he had done the same thing and told me he was physically sick! Kinda feel sorry for him, but he should have done his research before jumping into the thermal game. Let me know of any success/happiness stories that I can share with the guy. I know all the bad stuff and have the emotional scars to prove it!

Redacted

Happy Happy Happy

I have the same model of the LT 3-6, have had it around a year. No issues, I use it around the house to about 100 to 150 yards for varmints. Lot of negative press on it including some people thinking that you cannot tell the difference between a cow or horse from a yote. Just a bunch of idiot talk.

That's how everyone ends up with ATN. They look cool, the price is right and on paper they do everything. It's an expensive lesson in impulse buying.

If he got the 384 version he'll do better than if he bought the 160 version. I wish him the best of luck.

I don't know which version he got. He's got his head under his wing and is in major pout mode. He returned to the gun show and tried to get his money back, but the guy told him "a deal's a deal; and there's nothing wrong with this scope." He'll be sorting through it and plans to hunt with it this weekend. I'm quite sure I'll get a report!

He bought it. If it works for him, great! If not, well, he will join the AAA (Anti ATN Army)

And it's a huge Army! I don't see how they stay in business if all of their products perform as poorly as the first ones they released. What a nightmare that was! And ATN put some cretin on the Forum to try to answer questions for us and he got so snotty with his answers that he was unbearable. ATN finally took him off the air. Then there was Forum member who tried selling their products by producing some of the worst videos I've ever tried to watch. I think he quit trying to sell them and quit trying to make videos. All-in-all, it's been a bad scene for ATN and their representative; and yet they keep releasing products and somebody out there continues to buy them!

The thing about ATN is that the products can and often do work and work well. So for a goodly number of users, they are quite happy. Then there is everybody else.

Sorry for your friends loss. I was at the show on Saturday too. The most Winchester lever actions I have ever seen in one place.

Isn't that the truth! There were piles on them on just about every table!! In Kerrville in a couple of weeks, you probably won't be able to find one!

Got a call from him this morning, and things did not well for him last night. He told me that even at 50 yards he couldn't get a clear enough image to do the "One Shot Zero" trick. He was using a disposable hand warming thing as a target. He could see the "glow" of the hand warmer, but that was about it. After every shot he had to walk to the target, figure out where the shot hit, then try to adjust the scope to get to zero. He took it hunting finally, and told me he could see hogs as blurry masses, but no matter how many times he tried to focus the scope, he could never get what he called a decent image "that looked like a pig." Fuzzy blobs that he could barely tell snout from tail. He did shoot one but didn't try for a head shot, just a shoulder shot. Knocked it down with first shot and then put two more into him to finish the kill. Since I have not gotten into the thermal game, I couldn't tell him what he could do to clear up the image. Told him to take 2-3 tranquilizers and call ATN "support" to see if they had any suggestions. I also told him to keep his expectations very low. WIll this scope work in the daylight? Could he do the zeroing during the daytime instead of trying it at night? Buyer's remorse, big time.

Thermal is zeroable in daytime. Hand warmers,alum tape, ice cube, or ... just need temp difference. Did he focus eyepiece?

I asked him that, and he said he did focus the eyepiece. But that's only for getting the reticle in focus, at least it is for my regular scopes and my NV scope. Is it different on thermals?

If this is his first thermal device , be sure to explain to him the rear diopter adjustment (screen focus) is needed to be addressed.

Every icon and menu should be razor sharp regardless of what the front focus is doing , in fact I will usually (On purpose) take the front focus way out (blurry) so that my eye is forced to concentrate on menus and icons being properly focused by the rear adjustment.

Other than that unless it was raining or 80% humidity or the lens cap was halfway over the front lens it shouldn’t be blobs and hard to recognize targets

I drove over to Llano and sat with him out in his pasture that he uses for a range. I read the stuff in the manual and he worked the controls. He could not ever get the images to focus. He had a hand warmer first, then went and got a ice bottle. Both showed up as blobs. We then changed over and he read the manual while I worked the controls. The end results were the same. We were like two monkeys with a football. You can see blobs of heat and cold, clear out to 100 yards. We watched a couple of his cattle and they were moving blobs that you would not know were cows unless you knew they were out there. I don't know anything about thermal, but the very fact that he cannot get the thing to focus, even though everything else from the control panel seemed to work as called out in the manual, leads me to believe he's got a scope that just ain't right. I urged him, again, to give ATN a call and see what they say. He said "maybe it needs firmware update." I know nothing about thermal, and I have emotional scars from getting firmware downloaded and then loaded into my first two ATN scopes. I didn't see anything in the manual about firmware updates, so I don't know if one is available. He ain't a happy boy; not at all. . .

I zeroed mine at 100 yards with no problem during the day at a gun range with a hand warmer. To be frankly honest, anything over the 3 power does not work though. Makes things too grainy. Keep it at the #3 power setting. This unit should only be used to about 100 to 150 yards for identification, at least that what i have found out. All control features are easy to read and set. Focus is a bit of a pain in the butt because you have to adjust front and back to clear things up but like I said it is ok to 100 to 150 yards. I set mine at 100 and leave it. If your friend did follow the directions and he still cant see clearly, there is something wrong with the scope and it needs to be addressed.
Honestly, I am not a big ATN fan by no means but the unit I have works for what I need it to do. I will never spend 3000 to 5000 dollars on a unit that I would rarely use. Even during the daytime when hunting my normal shots are within that 100 to 200 yard range so like I said it works for me.
If for some reason he can't get it taken care of and has to eat it, I would not mind taking a look at it to see if there was anything that I could help him out with it.

Did he get the 160 resolution model or the 384 resolution? That's a big factor....

I asked him this question, but he doesn't know how to tell what it is. I asked him to look on the end of the box and he reports this: 3-6x;TIWSTLT136X. Also, on the other end of the box: 1280X720 display. And he says there's no mention of which resolution model it is in the user's manual. Where else can he look? And what does he look for?

From ATNs website :

ATN ThOR LT 160 3-6x TIWSTLT136X The ThOR LT is the lightest Thermal Scope in the ATN ThOR line, providing more versatility to mount to a Crossbow, Air Rifle, or other platforms where weight is a critical factor. Weighing only 1.4 lb/ 650 g and built out of Hardened Aluminum Alloy with Impact Resistant Electronics. Get the look and feel of a traditional scope with standard 30mm rings, 3" eye relief, and classic ergonomic design. "Light" - not only in weight but in features and ease of use. Sight in your scope with One Shot Zero, choose between 2 color pallets (Black Hot/White Hot), pick a reticle style and you are ready for an affordable thermal hunting adventure.

ATN stays in business because folks buy the cheap thermal scopes , back when cabelas had the Bargain Cave the large majority of returned / demo night vision back there was ATN. Should tell you alot.

Unfortunately newbies don’t know any better.

He could of bought a Bering optics stimulus for 4-500 more bucks, it has a 256 sensor (12 microns) which falls between the cheap ATN 160 res and the more common 320 or 384 cores.

Here is a video showing the 256 res in action. I’m sure you couldn’t get pigs and hot hands to look as clear as this with the 160 core (17 micron).

You are absolutely correct, PP! All we're seeing is blobs of heat and cold. At 50 yards, the shapes of the hot hands or the ice water bottle were not discernible. For ATN to say that the owner can use the vaunted "one shot zero" function is jus plain untrue. The guy still hasn't called ATN; I think he's waiting for a miracle to occur as he keeps turning the thing on and working the keyboard on it. I think it is dead on arrival.

ATN speaks with forked tongue! How can you use One Shot Zero when you can't even see the target, much less a small bore hole or the bolt or arrow from your archery arsenal to use as reference?

Color pallets

As opposed to color palette

…. Just another day on the ATN bandwagon

I'm continuing to be surprised that there is anyone still on the bandwagon, given their proven record of product performance and aftermarket "support."

So it sounds like it's the 160 version....if so, ya he's not going to ever see more than blobs. I bought one just to test it when they first came out and I ended up selling it on eBay WAAY below cost just to dump it and I felt bad for whoever bought it. By far his best bet is to put it back in the box, stick it on eBay, take whatever he gets for it and chalk it up to an expensive life lesson. The longer he keeps it, the less it will be worth.

OK, thanks. I think he's about reached that decision as well! "Blobs" just don't get 'er done. It's just a shame ATN continues to put out products that so underperform both their advertising and their customers' expectations. Their customer base has got to be shrinking. Even with customers who want to "ease" into the world of thermal by buying entry level products, they can't be happy with a product that doesn't even come close to performing the way ATN claims they will. Truth in advertising? I don't think so. My ancient Gen 1 Yukon, made in Russia, gives better performance than his scope!

Mike, we've all been predicting this for years but they continue to sell scopes day after day, year after year and your buddy's story is just repeated over and over. Until there comes a day when very few new people are entering the market (I obviously don't want to see that happen) I don't think we'll see much change. They have slick advertising, great prices and their products are mostly sold in places where uninformed potential customers are looking....gun shows, Optics Planet, Amazon, local gun shops etc. Nothing against gun shows or local shops, I'm just saying that's where a lot of ATN's are available for sale and guys are walking in and impulse buying thermal. It's an interesting business model and it's been successful for them.

He's certainly learned his lesson, and after the bleeding stops, I am going to suggest that he contact you folks there at Outdoor Legacy and get some competent, caring advice from true professionals in the area of night optics of all kinds..

FYI, he still won't be able to see the impact holes in a target with thermal when it comes to zeroing, at least not reliably so. He will need to either use a day optic to see the holes (spotting scope) or walk up to the target. Then use the one shot feature to make adjustments accordingly. It will probably take 2-4 shots, realistically to get adjusted and verified.

OK, thanks, DNS. From what I saw looking through the scope during the day, he would not be able to see a 50 caliber hole, much less a smaller one. He's got a good spotting scope to use. However, at this point he's so disgusted and angry that I think he'll just try to sell it, take the loss, lick his wounds, and stay out of the thermal game all together. He definitely will not buy a thermal scope at a gun show ever again!

I just heard from my buddy with the sick thermal scope. He finally broke down and contacted ATN about the issue of not being able to focus. They, after several back-and-forths and about an hour, agreed with him that the scope needed help. They assigned him an RMA, but, of course, asked for a copy of proof of purchase. Needless to say he doesn't have that. ATN then informed him that there is a $35 examination fee, then $125/hour repair charge, plus parts, if needed, if they determined that the scope was out of its 3 year warranty. He has decided that he will wait and see what the ATN techs say: if it's fixable for $160, he'll have them do the repair; if it's going to cost big bucks, he'll just have them return it and he'll sell it for whatever he can get. Not sure that's a wise idea, but it's his money, his decision. I told him that a reputable thermal dealer on the forum had told me that even brand new out of the box units did not deliver very clear images, so he's been forewarned! Keep your popcorn handy. . .

The neighbor has a buddy with an ATN thermal scope. They came over a while back to sight it in, and it was a problem even at 50 yards. I looked through it and was not impressed. If that’s the best it can do in daylight, I wouldn’t have one. Further, the neighbor and the buddy shared the same blind recently - the neighbor with his ATN infrared and the buddy with the thermal. They swapped rifles to see which was most useful. The buddy has since ordered an infrared scope.

As for me, I will likely order the same IR scope that mikei uses.

My SIghtmark Wraith is a winner in my limited experience with it. I am amazed at the clarity of the images and the power of the IR illuminator that comes with it. I would recommend it to anyone wanting to get into night vision hunting but can't quite gather together the coins to get into thermal.

I'll bet they can't fix it in 1 hour's time.

Is your buddy in the market for some bridges, or maybe some inland coastal property?

He really is a pretty bright guy but I think he's in total denial that he made an expensive mistake. Like the old saying goes: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. He's still digging. . .

Just heard from my buddy in Llano. ATN returned his scope and he took it out for a spin. Claims that the focus is "better," but that he can't see even a .30 bullet hole at 50 yards, so the "one shot zero" is a bunch of marketing BS." He says he can tell his cows from the deer, but it's basically "blob shooting," and he isn't very happy with that. The only good thing is that ATN honored the warranty, even though he was not the original owner. He says he'll be taking it hunting for the next few weeks, but that he's going to sell it and get out of the thermal business altogether. A shame.

Pardon my bluntness, but your friend is an idiot.

I think that is going a bit overboard. The guy is simply ignorant of the subject and naive about his expectations. That doesn't make him an idiot, but maybe more of a victim, of both himself and the person who sold him the ATN.

Chill out Funkeruski! I don't pardon your bluntness; it's inexcusable. You make a rather unkind statement about a person you don't even know basing the statement on a third party's report of a single incident. Not cool, bud, not cool at all.

Agreed

We are all ignorant of lots of topics. That doesn't make all people idiots.