Ballistic Tip Performance?

I have been shooting for years, mostly pistol, and want to get into hunting. I just got a rifle, in .308 Winchester, and will start working on my accuracy with a rifle. I know quality ammo is important (I even do some reloading for my pistol), you get what you pay for with ammo, and that the bullet needs to perform its job to put the animal down. Wounding isn't good, so buy ammunition designed for deer (in this case). I have several brands and weights in mind for deer, but I haven't chosen what I want to zero my rifle with yet due to my question.

Compared to many other parts of the U.S., Texas has small deer. I have a friend who hunts, typically with their father, and they are avidly against ballistic tips (their rifle calibers range from 243 Winchester to 30-06). Their reasoning is that the ballistic tips do a lot of damage to the edible meat. This is something that was experienced by them. They also dislike heavily expanding bullets (stuff that brags about expanding 1.5-2 times the bullet diameter) because it tears up more of the meat, leaving less to harvest. (Plus the father says expanding bullets are for people who can't shoot well). Again, this is something that has been experienced by them. The father has been deer hunting for decades.

So my question is wondering what your experiences with the smaller deer in Texas has been for ballistic tips? Ballistic tips have come a long way since their father first used ammo sporting them and had his bad experience, but that doesn't mean they're wrong. Since most premium hunting ammo sports some kind of ballistic tip or a hollow point with extreme expansion, I was hoping to hear others experiences with ballistic tipped hunting ammo.

I hope that makes sense. I have a lot to learn about hunting. Thanks.

Define small bodied deer? Texas is a big state with deer weights all over the place depending on the region.

My wife has a 7x57 Mauser that I load 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips for. I do not load hot rounds for her rifles nor for mine. Her 7x57 ammo is approx 2700 MV. She has killed 7-8 deer this year so far with the load. Put the bullet thru the boiler room and very little meat will be wasted, just aint much meat on the rib cage of WT deer. One deer ran about 50 yds, the rest have fell with in 10-15 yds of being shot. The Nosler BT is accurate and kills quickly. It doesn't destroy any more meat than any other cup & core bullet regardless of brand.

First your going to destroy meat if you put your bullet into it no matter what. Second my favorite 308 bullet for deer is the 165 grain Sierra Gameking. I would without question use the 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, the 150 grain Nosler Partition and the 150 grain Hornady Spire point with complete confidence.

They work well but justl like any other bullet if you put one through both shoulders you will have blood shot meat. Did notice when i used them in my 243 the deer usually dropped in their tracks unlike the Remington factory loads some ran a little ways. In my opinion the ballistic tips and SST's are the best deer bullets out there.

When they were first introduced 30ish years ago, they were indeed too fragile, expanding too fast, destroying lots of tissue but not penetrating well. Nosler has improved their design and they are now first class game bullets. However, the reputation of being to fragile dies hard

Well did they only tell you what they don’t use? What do they use?

Ballistic tip is t my first pic but will work fine. Messing up meat is about where you shoot more than what you shoot. Try to avoid hitting g the shoulders.

First of all, ballistic tip is proprietary to nosler. A lot of people see a bullet with a plastic tip and call it a ballistic tip, when that is not the case. Off the top of my head, all the following have plastic tips: hornady Sst, hornady eld-x, nosler ballistic tip, nosler accubond, barnes ttsx, and sierra tipped game king. All have plastic tips yet all are very different bullets and will perform very differently. Yes, the actual nosler ballistic tip will expand violently at high velocity, but should be fine in a .308...even more so in 168gr vs.150 gr. If you get nosler ballistic tips, and they are accurate, they will be fine.

About 90% of the deer and hogs I have taken in my life have been with 150 Grain Nosler Ballistic Tips from a .308.

Typically golf ball to baseball sized exit holes on deer with heart/lung shots, and exits on high shoulder shots about half the time. Pass through on hogs about 75% of the time, the other 25% were head/neck shots and were DRT.

All of the shoulder shot deer and the one neck shot deer were DRT, all of the heart/lung shot deer were down within 25 yards.

I like them.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Also, the comment that expanding bullets are for people who don't shoot well is just bad advice. Bullets that don't expand would be FMJ or match bullets. Those would, with few exceptions, be poor choices for hunting. The primary goal when hunting is a quick kill. Bullets that don't expand are going to pencil straight through and do little damage, resulting in a suffering animal unless you happen to hit the central nervous system.

Wow! Lots of responses while I looked away. That's awesome. Such great information in everyone's posts. I'll do my best to address them all.


Driving back and forth from Utah to south Texas, the deer we saw were twice the size in Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. I don't know how to gauge the weight on game animals yet, but adult does were a lot sturdier, wider, and even taller than what I usually see in the Texas heat.


Those are the brands I'm looking at. Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, and Speer. I don't know if I will go with 150 grain or 165, but I am leaning towards the 150 for deer. I have yet to shoot my rifle yet, the range/shop I purchased it at does complimentary bore sighting if you buy an optic with the gun (I didn't know that until after I bought it) so they are doing that for me and I will make that call once I get to see her performance (and my skill) with the different weights. I have several different weights and velocities purchased to test what she will like to shoot best.


That is what I understood it to be, from my research. That and I learned hunters love to find a groove and adamantly stick to it.


My friend is a casual hunter. They have a lifetime Texas license and go out often and takes a deer every year or every other year, but the specifics of rifles and calibers is not their forte (but they are very accurate and take neck shots). The use Winchester Super X, a soft tip spitzer.

Which comes to the fun part. I purchased a Sig 761i, which is a semiautomatic LR-308 rifle. I am concerned about it feeding soft tipped ammo properly. I know I only need one bullet, and my goal is to only take one shot (I'd be embarrassed if I need two shots with a 308), but the rifle is designed to be able to shoot rapidly if needed. Last thing I need to worry about is jams. I don't know how it will like soft tips, but I have some to use to find out. Sig has been making ammo for a few years and just moved into the hunting market, using Sierra for their ballistic tip ammo, and I don't know the producer of their all copper bullet, so I am interested in trying their hunting ammo. The more important question will come down to feeding of the semiautomatic action, as each design is different.

All of the does in Utah and New Mexico would be almost all mule deer, way bigger than most whitetails. Colorado has both mule deer and whitetail...midwest whitetails does are bigger than most Texas does. Exception would be up in the panhandle area of Texas and South Texas. Hill Country, Gulf Coast region, Central Texas and parts of West Texas would have the smallest does in Texas. 200-250 lb live weight bucks in Panhandle and South Texas are very common with some bucks weighing more than that in really wet years. Not 300 lb deer but not small either. San Antonio is not South Texas and if you drove down IH-10 to SA, then you drove through the western Hill Country and Central Texas Hill Country areas with some of the smallest deer in the state, it will be the highest density in the state but smallest deer with the exception of the coastal prairies whitetails which are also smaller.

Wow! More posts in between when I started writing and posted.


You learn something new every day. I didn't know that ballistic tip is proprietary to Nosler. I used the term because it was an tip added to a hollow point to increase the ballistics. I like learning these technicalities and will relearn the proper vocabulary. Also, the comment was most likely a joking jab, but was about bullets designed to expand by large exponential factors. I know (and they know) bullet expansion is critical for transferring energy into the animal to put it down.


That's some great info on performance that I will take into my calculations. Nosler is a great company and a lot of people on here seem to recommend them the most.


That is stellar info on deer that I didn't know and need to. Thank you. Also, I am aware San Antonio is central Texas and that South Texas is a different region. I'm used to speaking to national and international communities, so I usually say south Texas or south-central Texas so the northerners don't think of Dallas and the foreigners don't think of Houston.

I’ve been using the Nosler ballistic tips since the month they came out. I guess that’s an easy 30 years. Probably killed a couple hundred with the 270 and 260. I guess I lost just 2 deer, both were dead, but not found for a couple of days. I’d shoot ‘em in the lungs and they die every time, with little tracking required. Very accurate bullet also.

Lung shots generally aren’t that messy. Small hole in and quarter to half dollar hole out, and I’m not talking about a small sample size. Biggest deer was just short of 300 pounds.

I avoid quartering shots if I can.

That is great info and a lot of deer! I've done a lot of research into ballistics in the human body for self defense purposes, but I don't know game animals. Deer obviously don't have the same bone and muscle density as humans (plus their hide) and the 308 Win is very different from a 9mm Luger.

I've killed a bunch of things with 150 NBTs in my 308. All but one dropped dead on the spot and all exited. I even drove one though both shoulders on an older mule deer buck.

I've also killed several animals with 180 NBTs out 338 Federal.


The jackets in the ballistic tips are now about 60% of their total weight so weigh retention is still decent even if the core separates.

Why we nit picking deer size? Is this a deer size thread or a ballistic tip performance thread?

Both. He made the statements....not me. I commented on those statements in red. Most hunters from out-of-state think anything south of the Red River is South Texas.

My dad started loading BT’s in our guns in 1886 and Ive killed something or many somethings every year since. There great bullets for their intended purpose, the only issue Ive ever ran into was I loaded some in a RUM and they blew up on contact twice before I realized what was happening but that was user error back when I wasn’t smart For the record, I’m still not to smart most days

I concur. The game king bullets do a great job on deer and I've shot them through MANY calibers and never had a single issue. They are also as accurate as most ballistic tip bullets like the noslers which I used to shoot a ton of back in the day.

My youngest son shot a cow elk with a 308 168 gr ballistic tip at 327 yds DRT. Use ballistic tips with confidence.

The 165 gr Nosler BT is my favorite hunting and accuracy bullet in 308 WIN and 30-06. Between me, my son and my hunting buddy we've killed a couple hundred pigs and deer with these bullets and they are hammers. They don't always exit but the do always expand. They do damage meat but no more that any other soft point expanding bullet. As with all hunting, shot placement is the key. I shoot pigs in the head, neck and front of shoulder and almost always DRT. For deer I shoot just behind the shoulder and don't lose much meat. Trophy deer I shoot through the shoulder, high shoulder, as I don't want to lose them in the thick East TX jungle we hunt.

Only problem is you just can't buy them now. I'm down to a couple hundred that won't last long between the 3 of us. I bought some 168 A-Max bullets hoping they will give similar performance, we'll see.

Honestly would have to say at that caliber, find what what hunting round your rifle likes the best and is most accurate. I have a few guns that I use ballistic tip with no issues and others I don’t due to how the gun shoots them. Confidence in your ammo and ability is the most important thing when starting. There are plenty of guys on here that would be a good option to reach out to for getting started advice.

My brother has killed many South Texas bucks with his Win. Model 70 Featherweight .30-.06 shooting the 150 gr. Winchester Silver Ballistic tip ammo, his go to.

This is 100% true. I've shot too many deer and hogs to count with 120 BT's from my 7mm08. It's a very, very good hunting bullet. I wouldn't hesitate at all to use a 150, 165, or 180 gr BT in .308 caliber. Where people get in trouble with BT's it trying to hot rod the bullet, then complaining about the damage it did t their deer when shot at 75 yards. Matching any bullet to the intended velocity parameters is pretty much the key with any cartridge IMO. For instance, a hunter I had was shooting a 139gr SST at about 3250fps at the muzzle. It made quite a mess impacting bone on an antelope at 75 yds.

Moral of the story…yes that’s an effective round. Buy a bunch and have fun hunting 🤘

You learned the hard way like I did. The key to Ballistic Tips and just about any cup and core bullet is impact velocity. With impact velocities at or above 3000fps these bullets will let you down. They simply are not built for that kind of impact velocity. I like to keep impact velocities below 2800-2900fps if using Ballistic Tips or cup and cores. Anything faster than that I go with a Partition type bullet or bonded bullet.

Ballistic Tips are a tool developed mostly for longer range shooting. Use that tool correctly and it will serve you well. Ask it to do more than what it was designed to do and you are going to get burned.

And before anyone gets their panties in a wad like the last time this topic came up, keep in mind the velocities I listed are IMPACT velocities, NOT MUZZLE velocities. I am actually a fan of cup and cores and Ballistic Tips, you just have to know its limitations.

Ya think Old Thumper has really been using them since 1886?

Ballistic Tip was introduced in the mid to late 1980's (I think 1984). So Im sure he meant 1986.

I wasn't going to chime in, but I guess I will. While BTs aren't my favorite (Nosler Partitions are), they are a close second. Both the branded BT and the Trophy Tip are fantastic rounds that I will buy in a heartbeat for my 308 and 30-06. I prefer partitions and BT/TTs in a heavier 180gr loading though since that's what my guns like, plus it keeps impact velocity down a little

You are pretty much required by law to hunt with expanding bullets almost everywhere. A soft point in any common deer cartridge will get it done, and I would not think too much on it. Worry more about shot placement and use expanding bullets, ie any soft point bullet in a common deer cartridge

Serious question. What makes one choose the partition vs the accubond? The nosler website says there’s almost no performance difference.

At the risk of assumption that it was aimed at me, I choose the partition because of comfort level and past experience. There may be no difference, but I trust the partition because of what I have seen it do

That's a legit reason for sure. Partitions have been the gold standard of hunting bullet performance for 60 years now, and they are never a bad choice. I've killed loads of game with partitions and AB's, and have seen little difference in performance.

It wasn’t aimed at you. All I shot was partitions when I had a 257 wby. Now everyone is shooting accubonds. So I was just curious.

The partition was out at the same time as the ballistic tip and yes I would agree that performance on game is the same as an Accubond. I also shot BT's at the time they came out and have heard all of the stories, personally I never had a problem with them.

Next came the accubond, on the outside it looked like a BT but performed like a partition, but had the plastic tip. I have no proof and have never heard anything along these lines, but with the bad rap the BT's got, I think the Accubond was somewhat of a marketing attempt to introduce something that would get away from the BT stigma.

What nosler really needs to do is figure out how to get production up on all of these lines before they permanently lose their following to Hornady and whoever else.

Obviously lots of replies to this post already but I have used Winchester Ballistic Silvertips in 270WSM and 7mm-.08 for many years. Yes if I shoot shoulder shots, there is damage to meat on the exit side but 99% of all animals I have shot with these have dropped in their tracks. My only problem is that they have been almost impossible to find for the last few years.

First of all, Im not as smart on this stuff as many on here. From what I do know, I agree with those that say the "high" velocity at impact can cause issues. I guess 308 velocities would be fine, but why take the chance. Just go with partition or accubond and I dont think many would argue the performance will be great.
I loved the question about difference in partition and accubond cause I have wondered the same thing. I have used partitions for decades and thats why I stay with them but I would assume accubond would do the same if I had to switch.

The Ballistic Tips, per Nosler, have a max recommended MV of 3200 fps. I sent them out of my 270 at approx 3000, and about 2800 from the 260. Going on memory, I think the Accubond and Partition have an Unlimited max MV.

That said, I know two guys that do, or did, shoot the 125 gr BT in their 30-378, and loaded hot. They mule deer and elk hunt with that load. I wouldn’t…

I choose accubond for the same reason TLEW chose partitions. I bought some accubonds in probably the late 90's. I was very happy with the performance of them, so I never switched...until this year. Couldn't find any accubond, so I bought some BT (Couldn't find partitions either). I haven’t loaded the BT yet because I still have about 35 loaded rounds of the accubonds, but I will eventually.

Mindrop, first of all not all 'ballistic tip' bullet designs are the same - it's the jacket thickness design, and whether it's further improved by being crimped or better yet 'bonded', that makes a good med-size hunting bullet.
It's using 'thin jacketed' target-ammo ballistic tip ammo (V-Max) on a large buck or hog shoulder shot that can be an issue,
but several mfgr's make fine premium bonded ballistic tip rounds that are superior for all conditions.

That said, I've taken doe with close neckshots using V-Max rounds that I keep loaded in my 2nd rifle in the stand for in case coyotes show up (which they have and I've whacked them too!),
but these days my main rifle is loaded with premium bonded bt rounds in case that monster buck comes running across the field in the distance not getting close to the feeder.

I just don’t understand why you would lean toward partitions for whitetail deer. Can you even find partitions? I know some of y’all have some saved up for a rainy day or a anti-gun president but I have not had any luck searching for partitions. I did find some good Barnes TSX 180 grains for my 30-06, I guess that will work lol. But that’s for an elk hunt.

We’re talking about whitetails and who is going to send a new hunter on the search for partitions and accubonds that are pricey and hard to find? But you guys know any standard soft point bullet in a standard deer cartridge will work very well.

it's 50/50

some will go straight through with no expansion
some will create massive wound channel

Partition is the best choice for hunting

These days it’s more in line with what Bryan H just said about avails of Partitions. Good luck finding them. Unless someone has a stock of them, you buy what’s available. My neighbor was able to get some 129 gr Hornady interlocks for his 6.5 CM.

The last partitions I saw were at Runnings in some small town in South Dakota. Let me tell you, I get around too. I shop for ammo across 20 states lol.

I left them on the shelf because I had already spent some $60 a box on 2 boxes of Barnes TSX 180’s and by God that’s what I am gonna use!

I just bought 5 boxes of my favorite P308Es yesterday. There are 2 boxes left at $44.99 -- reach out to me if you want em and I'll point you in the right direction

I'm not picking on the size of deer. I know that size, weight, density, etc. directly impact how a bullet reacts and shooting a 308 Win, while it will easily get the job done on a very wide range of animals, having the right weight bullet for the job is key. I wouldn't take 180 grain ammo out to hunt deer and in reverse, I also wouldn't take 150 grain ammo out to take on an elk. I also wouldn't take anything but tipped ammo to take out an elk, but deer and elk are very different and deer vary widely in size, so I was wondering about the smaller deer and performance of "ballistic tips", specifically if they did what my friend's father claims.


Thanks for the info! I have to learn my shot placement for hogs and deer, so hearing experienced hunters like you tell me your experiences is very valuable to me. Nosler comes very highly recommended.


Yeah, hot rodding will do that at short ranges. A fast bullet isn't necessary and as you pointed out, can be a detriment for hunting. I think most of my hunting ranges will be 75-150 yards. I have to find what weights my rifle likes and then decided based on game, because I don't want to destroy the deer. Destroying the "target" is only for exploding targets and the military, not for hunting. (Exception can be made for hogs, but for many people that is extermination of their infested ranch. I used to know a bow hunter who had a hog problem, which hurt his deer population, and he leased his land to others for deer hunting.) So with trying to match all of those factors, that is where my friends advice was confusing me. I know they were not hot rodding, they don't reload, but I though their experience with plastic tipped ammo was dated.



I've tried to reply to everyone, but I think I missed some. I wanted to thank everyone for their info and advice. I appreciate it all. I want to learn the best, most efficient way to hunt, and y'all are certainly steering me in the right direction.

Edit: Whoops, didn't see page two!

Impact velocities above 2800 baffle me. That is a very hot cartridge going out of the muzzle if its impact is so high. Most 308 Win caps about 2900 for muzzle velocity and quickly slow after 100 yards. My reloading manual has very little max load data that pushes 308 Win over 3000fps. I can understand why tips at those impact speeds fail. The manufactures give us plenty of information on performance of the test bullets, its up to the shooter to make the right choice for the circumstance. That includes bonded vs cup and core.


Yep, I have a lot of work to do to improve my rifle accuracy, but I'll get that down so my shot goes exactly where it needs to be. What I meant by the expanding bullets are the ones that boast about extreme expansion, like 1.8-2 times the bullet diameter. You need expansion in order to get the job done and my friend hunts with soft points.


Wow, lots of great info about partition vs accubond. Thank you everyone! To Bryan directly, that's for explaining that. I do love Hornady, but my reloading has been for targets and pistols, and pistol rounds and self-defense rounds are very different in design than hunting bullets. I haven't gotten into the hunting side of reloading yet, but would not be surprised if I do. I'll be making sure I purchase bonded tipped ammo with a sufficient jacket. I plan to only use ammunition designed for hunting, which cuts out target rounds and varmint rounds.

LOL 1986 would be correct,

Not to derail the thread, but this interested me. I checked TPWD regs under General Rules as well as Means and Methods and came up empty. Can you point me to the regulation, please?

As to the OP's topic: ORIGINAL BTs were simply the old Nosler Solid Base cup-and-core with the additional of a plastic tip. As with all the old cup & core (unbonded) bullets, impact velocity was critical. I used to cuss the old 100 grain .257 BT out of a .25-06, but found that the selfsame bullet did yeoman service out of a .250 Savage. That was what earned the Partition such a wonderful early reputation; the fact that it could hang together in spite of the velocities of the "magnum craze" of the '60s. The current BTs are both accurate and lethal...use them with confidence.

The only negative about Ballistic Tips is the 50 count box. Ridiculous, especially when many online sellers limit 2 boxes wether it's 100 count or 50 count.

Yes your friend’s advice is correct that most Nosler ballistic tips expand more readily than other cup and core Bullets. (There are exceptions) Don’t shoot the part you plan to eat with them. The lighter BT bullets may not exit if you hit big bones or take angled shots at 308 velocity. Some like those features and some want to always get an exit for tracking purposes. It is a give and take. If you have an animal up close they are going to make a mess. The posters on this forum as a collective have an aversion to recoil. Low recoil short actions are far and away the rifles most touted on this forum according to what i see posted, and a lot of them like the ballistic tips. A 30. cal Nosler ballistic tip is a good fit in a 308. In today’s market if they are what you can find for your 308 I would buy them. In a long action or magnum loaded with some zip, they are still a good choice beyond 200 yards. Inside 200 or for an all around bullet in long actions and magnums, either heavy for caliber cup and core or a tougher bullet is what I like.

I don’t know that I agree that Nosler’s BT for hunting expand more than other cup and core bullets. I don’t know how a fellow would prove or disprove that belief. After decades of using them, I have a pretty big sample size on performance, and they seem about perfect for my needs. I started with the first generation BT’s and never even had a problem with them. That said, they are messy. When used on deer, I can’t remember ever not getting an exit when I shot them in the heart/lung area. When used on hogs of any size I don’t remember any exits, so there is some limit on penetration.

I’d probably be just as happy with Sierra GK’s or Hornady SST’s.

Bullets that don’t expand as readily penetrate deeper. The jacket on most Nosler ballistic tips is not as tough some other cup and core bullets. The sleek design with a boat tail base was made to perform at longer ranges and expand at slower velocity at distance. Cup and core Bullets like the gameking you mentioned have a tougher jacket and work better in high velocity cartridges. It is give and take. At modest 308 velocity the ballistic tip works well but is messy due to the rapid expansion and corresponding energy transfer. As stated earlier it works really well in short actions. I shoot a 270 a lot and got away from the ballistic tip and went to a gameking for reliable albeit smaller exits on deer. I know that is kind of apples and oranges but shooting a bunch of both in short and long actions, that is the conclusion I drew about terminal performance.

Your experience is much different than mine. Ballistic Tips have a thick jacket and are reliable killers. They usually kill fast and exit.

It's a bullet designed for varmint calibers and is my favorite bullet for that purpose. I've had nothing but bad experience on big game with them. Barnes VOR-TX is a much better choice.

Anyone with a decent amount of experience, of which there are several here in this thread, know that this is a ridiculous statement that has no merit with regards to "normal" big game cartridges.

Some are and some are not, study the product, they spell it out.

I like the a Nosler BT for deer when it is leaving the muzzle between 2800-3000 FPS. I use a 150 BT all the time in my 7mm-08, it works very well at the ranges I shoot, which is between 70 and 380 yards. I have tried them at faster velocities and didn’t care for the results.

I wasn’t going to comment but your 100% correct, this statement holds water like a bucket with a 5” hole in the bottom of it Either someone’s a horrible shot, doesn’t know how to load ammo or is simply trying to pass on what they’ve heard 4th hand information from. This simply goes to show you that you have to weed through the BS on the innerweb to find the truth. I’ve killed no less than 200 whitetail’s and god knows how many pigs with a BT and the only and I mean only issue I’ve had was user error. Reading posts like this reaffirms some people are completely full of chit.

I have a bag full of bullets recovered from animals from over the years I’ve kept that will prove this idea is total BS, I recovered 2 from this last season alone and the bullet performed beautifully.

I would love to see a bag full of ballistics tips you have recovered from animals from over the years.

Haven't used a lot of 150 grain Ballistic Tips out of my 308 but I have used many out of my 7x57 and have caught very few, those in large feral hogs.

Well, one thing is absolutely correct, in that Nosler Ballistic Tips come in two versions - Varmint and Hunting. And they were not derived from or as Varmint bullets. They are a rework of the old Nosler Solid Base Boattail. Between Old Thumper and me, I suppose we’ve killed 400+ whitetail deer with Nosler BTs. And, like me, he probably started out with the first generation of the Ballistic Tip, which gets criticized often, but which worked just fine for me. I killed a hog back in the 80’s that the ranch owner said weighed just under 400 pounds. Biggest nastiest thing I ever saw. The first gen Ballistic Tip was under the skin on the far side of the hog.

I actually wish you guys would quit buying 6.5mm 120 gr BTs, so I can get some more.

To prove a point here’s a 165g from a 30/06 at 2906 fps I pulled from under the skin on the exit side in early November, it performed beautifully.

How did you recover that Ballistic Tip? Was it from a dead critter?

Show me a bullet you’ve pulled out that “Shattered” not some BS you found on the internet

I've never had one stay together like that. I gave up on loading them in 1987 after about 15 deer that they blew up in and retained probably 30-40 percent of their weight. Maybe they are making a better product today but I sure had a bad experience with them at the time.

I have a bag full of bullets recovered from animals from over the years I’ve kept that will prove this idea is total BS, I recovered 2 from this last season alone and the bullet performed beautifully. [/quote]

I would love to see a bag full of ballistics tips you have recovered from animals from over the years. [/quote]

To prove a point here’s a 165g from a 30/06 at 2906 fps I pulled from under the skin on the exit side in early November, it performed beautifully.

[/quote]
The ballistic tip bullets I have recovered from deer and hogs look similar to the above photo, expanded down the the solid base portion of the bullet or close to it.

LeonCarr’s post goes hand in hand with why I got away from them. It was not bullet failure. The bullet opens big and often did not exit shooting 130’s out of my 270. When they did exit it was generally a large exit. The density of the cover I hunt in makes an exit for ease of tracking a priority for me. Different horses for different courses….140’s out of the 7-08 were more to my liking.

I'm not going to post all of my BT's recovered, but they look almost exactly like that pic. NTX can't even come up with his own picture evidently. I cull loads and loads of whitetail does, almost 75 the past 3 years. Here's a good start on the 17 I culled in one weekend, 7mm08 and 120 BT's.

I almost posted that the .284 120 BT is one tough bullet. In my experience it behaves like an Accubond and you can push it 3,000fps in a 7-08.

Couple examples of the toughness of the 120 NBT via Steve Timm


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/dogzapper/Moose.jpg

Here is a bullwinkle who was a very satisfied 120-grain Ballistic Tip recipient. He received the 120 under his chin at 91-yards and died instantly.

The bullet fully penetrated the moose's neck and left a one-inch exit. Meat loss was perhaps three ounces. As far as I know, the bullet is still in low-orbit of the earth.

Rifle was my beloved .280 Ackley and the muzzle velocity = 3,370 fps @ 10 feet.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/dogzapper/elkguts.jpg

Here is another satisfied customer. This 6X6 bull received a 120-grain Ballistic Tip in the center of his left shoulder; the bullet broke both shoulders and was laying just under the skin of the far shoulder.

The bullet was fully expanded to .78" and weighed 108.8 grains.

Rifle was my 7-08 Ackley and muzzle velocity was 3,255 fps. Range from the muzzle to the bull was approx. 370 yards.

The bull was dead on the bullet impact and he fell/slid down the hill. This is a photo of the corpus delicious in the bottom of the canyon.


Steve

A little more information from Steve.


FYI the 120 NBT: Steve Timm Author said this:
(thanks Steve for your information)



"I push 120BTs at 3,370 out of my .280 Ackley. I've killed one Alberta moose, maybe a half-dozen big Alberta whitetails, about four antelope and about eight or ten mule deer with the load. Never seen any hint of a blowup.

The moose shot was at 91 yards. Bullwinkle was standing in a farm two-track, kinda angled. I shot him through the left carotid artery (cool..it spurts) and the bullet exited, leaving a two-inch hole and a totally missing cervical (neck) vertabrae. Moosie stood for about five seconds, long enough for me to rack in another round, and then he tipped over like a piece of plywood in a light wind.

When used in the .280 Ackley, the bullet seemingly always exits on deer and antelope, except for one antelope buck that I shot in the throat and found the bullet next to the bunghole, when I started to do the bad-nasty coring job with my filet knife. That bullet was expanded to about .75" and the core/jacket were one solid piece. The rest of the bullets, on both deer and antelope, totally penetrated and might still be in low-earth orbit, for all I know. Exit holes are not large, averaging about 1 1/2-inches to two inches, and blood shot meat is not bad. Yeah, I know the first few generations of BTs were "soft", but this bullet is much harder.

I've also used the 120BT in my 7SGLC ( 7-08 improved) at 3,250 fps MV. One shot I totally remember was hitting a major Montana mule deer buck in the face with the bullet at about ten yards. It was very early one morning and I was creeping up a hill, when I ran smack-dab into a large buck that was peeping at me through a juniper tree.. The horns were MAJOR.....up came the rifle and I shot it under the right eye. Didn't break the skull cap......just killed the living crap out of him.

It must be a guy thing, but I just love shooting critters squarely in the face, if I can. My friend, Roger Roberts, from Weeping Water, Nebraska, about had a hernia when I face-shot a caribou when we were hunting in Quebec...a face-shot at about fifteen feet is graphic and Roger ragged at me for the rest of the hunt about the shot. When I got home, I sent him a long video entitled "Face-Shot Things"; it was about a dozen short video clips melded together that would be great ammo for PETA Roger was SO insulted that he had to watch it fifteen or twenty times; then, he got his wife, Vicki, and the kids to watch it more. But I digress.

With the with the same load in my 7SGLC, I killed a 9 1/2 year old mule buck at 204 yards. Shot through the spine at dusk. Exit hole was maybe two inches, after removing a serious piece of spine. Biggest damned deer I've ever seen....anywhere. And in the gumbo. Karen and I WORKED to get that SOB out.

7SGLC also ended the careers of two 6X6 bull elk, not major bulls, but both were 300 B&C or so. One at about 375 yards and the other one was 400-ish. One was shot through the spine, between the shoulder blades, from above and the bullet penetrated to the brisket hide. The other was broadside...hit squarely in the center of the shoulder, broke both shoulders, but no mess, and penetrated to the off-shoulder hide. Both elk bullets expanded to about .80" and the cores were securely locked in the jackets.

I've killed oodles of big Alberta coyotes with the 120BT in the .280. Doesn't do much, except kill them, because the jacket is too heavy for predator use.

The 120BT, as we know it, came from shooting Silhouetta. Reportedly, the original version was too lightly built to get the reliably knock over the 500-meter steel ram. My buddy, Chub Eastman, was at the first big Silhouetta shoot where they were used and came back home to Bend, OR with the request to "build it heavier." line. Hey, it wasn't selling as a varmint bullet, so they apparently thought that they would build the bullet for their target market; the Silhouetta shooters. Sooooo, Nosler beefed up the jacket and, in doing so, they unknowingly created one Hell of a big game bullet.

Section one, I think you'll see what I mean. The bugger is built like the Ballistic Tip .338s-and-higher. Really heavy jacket.

I use .284"-120BTs on deer and antelope with no hesitation. And, when the opportunity avails itself to bonk a heavier head of big game, I have absolutely no worries with the 120BT."

Hope this helps.

Steve

The 9 shots I took this year with Barnes Vor-tx 270 130 grain put the animals down right there. First time using this round but it did what it was supposed to. Only 1 deer was mangled up but I aimed for the shoulder because it was heavy bodied deer. He fell right where he stood. I didn't try to recover any of the bullets, I just know they dropped my quarry. One neck shot on a doe made removing the head very easy.

The Nosler Ballistic Tip is all I've used on whitetails for many years out of my 243 & 25-06, they are nasty medicine on deer and work well. Period.

They will do some damage, though.

I say, does it really matter, if you have one ounce of shooting skill and a deer is typically standing broadside at 60 yards. Like most normal guys on this forum. Doesn’t apply to the guys killing 700 deer a year all at 1900 yards.

Shot a doe in the neck on Saturday with my 25-06 & 115 gr Nosler BT, just a small piece of meat & skin on the top & bottom of the neck was all that was holding the head on lol. I have killed more deer & pigs with my 243 & the 95 gr Nosler BT's than I can count over the years and they work well, but man that bullet in my 25-06 is like a lighting bolt. They don't take a step.

I hunted with 140 and 150 grain ballistic tips out of a 270 win for 4 years, I was hunting in the hill country those years and killing 5 deer + hogs a year. Never recovered a bullet because they all exited. Zero complaints.

The 120 grain Ballistic Tip is my favorite bullet in the 7mm-08. I cant begin to count the number of hogs and deer that my father, a buddy, and I have shot with that bullet. Luckily I bought 700 of them years back on a sale at shooters pro shop. They have the wrong color tips in them so Nosler was selling them cheap. Wish I could have purchased more of them.

165 Sierra Game King in the 308 have been the best I have ever seen in the field, bar none. Federal Classic 308C Chad TRG does them very well too

I didn't have a chance to read all the responses, and I'm not trying to posture, but I've guided professionally and through Texas Youth Hunting program for a long time and been on and around no telling how many kills. With ballistic tips at least quite a few hundred, probably around 100 personally. Here's the thing I've seen with them. Personally or my family, we've used them almost for exclusively over 25 years, and never had one single problem. Ever deer I have ever lost has been with more traditional soft point bullets, mostly Core Lokts. But I know other guides who hate hate hate Balistic Tips and think Core Lokts and those type bullets are the cats meow. Here's what I think I've observed to reconcile this disparity.

Caliber and shot placement seem to be the primary difference in performance in what I think I've seen, with an additional factor of deer size. The problems I have seen with ballistic tips are with the very commonly used on youth hunts 243, even those that are supposed to be for deer and not varmints. My family and all others I have seen no problems with are 270 and larger calibers. Also, I have seen no problems with accurate behind the should or neck shots, but all ballistic tip problems I have seen with those larger calibers have been right in the shoulder, hitting bone, shots, and those generally on either big mature bucks in our Rolling Plains area or on bigger deer in south Texas, the Panhandle or New Mexico. The outfitters and guides I have worked with in those places often don't even allow ballistic tips. So I think this is why I have heard some very qualified guys on both sides of the fence, its not the bullet, but very specific uses.

By the way, on the 243, it hasn't been so much that they don't kill, but that they too often don't exit, even on smaller deer, in our experience, and thus making blood trailing so difficult. This often happens on youth hunts, but I am too stubborn to give up on lost deer and end up finding them other ways and in most cases a great shot that just didn't exit. We've actually moved from recommending behind the shoulder shots to point of the should shots, to break down that nerve junction area, so help with this issue. And since I have started using, with my kids, and recommending more Nosler Partition or Accu Bond type bullets for the 243, we have loved it, bullets exit and ZERO deer lost.

On the Core Lokts, when I lost deer with them, I'm pretty sure it was on me, I was going through a light caliber and or long shooting phase, in my youth, and they just weren't the right bullet, for me, in those cases, gave me a biased bad taste. The guides I know that love them are primarily coming from a 100-200 yard shot at feeders standpoint.

Anyway, had this discussion alot in alot of hunting camps with alot of experienced guys and just thought I'd share some perspectives about the little nuances of use and style that may be making most of the differences of opinions. Best of luck to ya!

I made my longest shot with my Christmas .270 Friday morning. I got a 120# hog at 280 yards behind the shoulder (exact POA) with a Barnes Vor-tx (TTSX) 130 grain. It was a complete pass through and wasn't hard tracking 20 yards of red ice.

The last time I tried to “save the meat,” the deer ran 100 yards, left hardly any blood trail, jumped into the river and swam 3/4s of the way to the other side and drowned in the river. We had to drive 20 miles to get to the opposite side of the river, then swim in the river to tie onto the deer and drag him out, then carry it 500 yards UPHILL to get back to the truck.

Now I try to blow out the shoulder so they don’t run. Where I hunt now the brush is so thick that if they run very far I’d never find them. I hit them in the shoulder and don’t have to chase the deer. And I get plenty of meat out of every deer.