Overkill Caliber for TX Whitetail Deer

I'll start off by saying .300 Win Mag followed by 7MM Rem Mag., what say you??

x2

The .577 Tyrannosaur or .577 T-Rex (14.9×76mm) 750-grain (49 g) monolithic solid projectile which when fired moves at 2,460 ft/s (750 m/s) producing 10,180 foot-pounds force (13,800 J) of muzzle energy.

Have a friend that hunts with one rifle and has for as long as I've known him, he shoots an old Model 77 tang safety Ruger paddle tail in 338 Win Mag. Shoot's 180's for deer and 250's for anything bigger.

Usually the determining factor isn't it too much for deer but too much for the shooter. Some folks just can't shoot heavier recoiling rifles. Hell there was somebody on here put a brake on a 243 a few years ago.

That probably needs to be changed to " some folks just can't shoot "
I've seen people at public ranges that actually close their eyes as they
jerk the trigger, and the last time I went, some young men were shooting
ARs with lasers, and it looked to me as if kids had those dollar store
laser pointers and " drawing " a circle on their targets. They'd have done
way better bullseye-wise with a shotgun and buckshot

I did the same thing for many years with my Ruger .338 Win-mag.

It was a supremely accurate rifle and while I bought it to hunt elk with (250-300 gr. bullets) I would hand load 200 grain bullets (milder loads) and use it for deer.

More than necessary, yes, but it worked well for me.

Then I discovered the 7mm-08 about 25 yrs ago and find it to be a near perfect whitetail cartridge out to around 400 yds. Good for Mulies up to 300 yds or a bit more.

My best friend hunted whitetail with a 300 win mag that he affectionately named "Winnie the mag". All shots were less than 100 yards. I've given him Schitt for being over gunned for a while. I will say he's never lost a deer that he shot with that gun. Although he has lost a shoulder or two.

IMO anything bigger or with more horse power than a 30-06 is unnecessary for whitetail in Texas. But like everything else, use whatever you like and be good with what you use.

When I was a kid we hunted down on the Pecos outside of Pandale, rough country. Pop worked with all those guys out on the base and all damn good folks. I can't remember what all everybody was carrying, I had the 06 and off course Pop had the old 300 Weatherby. He caught a lot of chit from the other guys for carrying the Weatherby but by the third year there was 3 more men carrying Weatherby's, two 300's and a 257. You could always tell when Pop pulled the trigger, that Weatherby barking up a canyon had it's own distinct sound. That's where I shot my first 257 Weatherby, a man named Bob Ross bought it. There wasn't any blinds or feeding back then, you had to hump canyons all day and most of the shot's were long and most were running. Some of the hardest to country to hunt I've ever experienced but I loved it down there, the old Pecos run crystal clear through that area and we had about a two mile stretch of it. Most everybody was carrying 270's and 06's back then. Hell the 270 was joked about for being a ladies gun, Pop had one and we always called it Mom's gun although I think it originally was my Grand Dad's. Got me thinking. In all the years I hunted with POP and all the places and folks we hunted with the one caliber I never remember anybody hunting with was the 30-30. Off hand I only remember 3 times that I've seen a 30-30 in camp and the most recent was the one Pink used for the THF Ladies hunt and she put a nice 10 point down at 150-165 yards with that rifle. While I prefer Magnum calibers I have to admit Mrs. B sure didn't have any problems filling the freezer with her little 7mm08 She took 4 hog's, 6-7 Whitetail bucks, one Bull elk and two Javalina's with that rifle. The only one that didn't go straight down was the elk and it only went about 20 or so yards. She used a 243 before that but one shot with the 7mm08 and the 243 never came out of the closet again.

Can't get deader than dead.

I never load my .218 Bee to max pressure, it’s just too much recoil.

That's certainly true but do we want them dead 100 yards from where they were hit, a quarter mile from where they were hit? There's a ton of variables come into play especially when it comes to the limits of the hunter and the equipment used. A hard hitting flat shooting rifle with the right bullet helps eliminate some of those variables just by it's capabilities alone. This especially shows up when you start getting on the edge of the shooters capabilities.

So it doesn't really depend on the caliber, it depends on the shooter's decisions and abilities? I should have said There is no such thing as overkill, dead is dead.

And that's probably the least discussed topic. Back when the WSM craze was in full form I went hunting with some members here on the forum. The gentleman was shooting a 25 WSM on a nice rifle with good glass and shooting from a sand bagged rest. I watched as he did his best to try and shoot a sub 2 inch group at 100 yards, 4 - 3 round groups later he still hadn't accomplished it and decided that was as good as it was going to get and hunted with it. That was 15 plus years ago and his was about 2,000 to 2,500 set up. The unspoken truth is some folks just can't shoot no matter what equipment they're carrying and they'll deny it until the day they die. Instead of spending 1500 to 2000 dollars on the new wonder caliber they might invest that in a couple of Fire Man's classes and learn how to properly pull a trigger and block everything else out.

I can agree with that.

I love my .257 wby but after shooting 7 animals with it, I’ll have to admit it won’t kill anything any better than my .270.

The .270 win is one of the greatest cartridges ever created

I'm not going so far as saying it's the greatest but I'd put it in the top 2. As much as I like the Weatherby's I'd probably have to give the number one seat to the Rem 7-Mag that caliber carries a broad brush.

I have killed several deer with each, 223, 243, 7mm08, 270, 280, 30-06, 7mm wby, 300 wby, and a 54 cal smoke pole. I say shoot what you like, the 300 wby with a 200 + grain bullet didnt seem to do any more damage than I have seen a 270 etc. do.

I consider anything 7mm08 up probably more than you need, but they do the job fine if you do yours.

If you put it in the top two, that's pretty much "one of the greatest"

I shoot the 270 when I use a gun. My buddy uses a 7 mag. I can't say witch is better but I can tell you everything we've shot at in the last 3 MLD hunts were DRT. but I used a .243 and 30.06 on a few of the shots too just not as many.

He said one of the greatest, I said the greatest, Simply by where I placed it, it's obviously one of the greatest.

I won a .300wsm in a raffle when I was 21 and I have been using it ever since, I can't justify buying a smaller caliber rifle because it's too much for a WT.

Ford 6.7 diesel with a ranch hand grill

It's a fine caliber.

No such thing as overkill dead is dead 😉

The velocities pretty low but you definitely have the needed ft-lbs, I can honestly say you've found the proper definition of over kill.

I’ll be the first to admit that with out a Muzzle break I struggle with the heavy mags, from 400-800 yards when compared to non mag lighter recoiling calibers. 6.5 gap/PRC/CM, 243/6mm, 7-08, 280/280ai, 25-06, 257wby etc.

I dang sure wouldn’t say I can’t shoot though.

The only way to 100% drop an animal right there is shot placement. Correct Shot placement % as a whole decreases with caliber size.

I’d rather track a deer shoot high double lungs with a 22-250 then a 300wby in the guts

Recoil is a funny thing that affects different people in different ways. I'm not at all recoil shy and I actually enjoy shooting the larger cartridges. I'm pretty much the go to guy at my lease whenever a scope needs to be checked or adjusted, just because I can run as many rounds as needed through the larger magnums without developing a flinch. In fact they usually have to stop me or I'll burn through all of their ammo.

Oh, and there's no such thing as too much gun...says the guy who once killed a whitetail doe with a 375 H&H.

I agree. The simple fact is the vast majority of people (and most everyone who will actually admit it) shoot lower recoiling cartridges much better than higher recoiling ones.

As I'm sure you well know, deer sized game are easy to kill, even the 300lb variety. As a matter of fact, I always heard how tough various African plains game animals were. What I found after killing almost 60 of them, from impala up through blue wildebeest and zebra, when you hit them in the right spot, with a good bullet, they die as easily as any other animal. Took almost all of them with a 7mag/160 accubond.

I agree with this statement. Knowing your game and where the most vital area for shot placement is very important.

My grandfather gave me a pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 .270 when I was 9 years old - over 30 years ago. I could not even begin to tell you how many deer I've shot with that thing. Plain old 3x - 9x scope. It shoots exactly where I point it every time. Incredibly flat shooting gun. Deer are always DRT. That gun is just money, and I've been shooting it so long it feels like one of my body parts. It's kept me from playing around much at all with other calibers or guns.

I finally decided to get a bigger caliber for nilgai and elk (though I don't believe I really needed one). Went back to the Model 70 but got one of the new ones that is built like the pre-1964s so that I'd be totally comfortable and just went up to a .300 Win Mag. I'll keep shooting that old .270 98% of the time.

To me theres no such thing as too much gun for Trophy deer, as long as you can shoot it well. If I was just shooting does or cull type bucks I may shoot something different, but for hard earned infrequent opportunities at a Trophy buck Im taking no chances. I inherited my M70 3006 50 years ago and thats all Ive ever used. If I had to go to a different gun I would seriously consider a 708, at minimum.

“to much gun” means just that. Difference is it’s really to much gun for shooter not an animal.

I’ve killed a ton of stuff with 22-250 including elk and 200lb WT’s, if I was guiding WT’s over a feeder and a guy pulls out a 22-250 I wouldn’t care, unless he said do you think this is enough gun, then I get nervous. Well, if he said that with any caliber I’d be nervous but especially with a 22-250. I’m not saying 22-250 is the optimum caliber but I’ve seen a lot of stuff die with one, and it has it limits, but if those limits are respected it’s deadly.

In my experiences in observation most people are far more over gunned for themselves then under gunned. Seen some pretty impressive animals missed because of magnum calibers vs DRT with smaller.

Maybe the question should be Overkill at 25, 35, 100, 200 yards?

I am a hunter...and WT are not the only animals that walk in the woods where I hunt. I don't go to the stand with anything less than the 300 win mag. It will reach out and touch about anything that I can see (which is getting closer and closer these days). I HATE pigs and shoot 3X to 4X of them vs WT in a typical year and occasionally catch a coyote at distance. I once shot a fairly large sow at almost 200 yards with a 6mm mag and she ran about 30 yards and turned back around to eat corn.I shoot a heavy for caliber/high BC bullet that was designed for elk hunting so there isn't a great deal of expansion and less meat loss that when I shot a 6mm mag (I do shoot a bit further back owing to the caliber/bullet combo).

I too bought a 375 H&H mag once upon a time planning on a return trip to Africa to hunt buffalo. I haven't made the buffalo hunt happen yet...so every so often I take the big boy out and shoot a WT or a big pig. No harm no foul. I can't say that it kicks any harder than the 300 win mag...and as impractical as it is...I can't make myself get rid of it.

If you got it...and you can shoot it...have fun with it!

To me, it doesn't matter what anyone hunts WT with as long as they can shoot what rifle they are shooting that day....good enough to hit where they are aiming. Put the right bullet in the right location and the end results will all be the same. I have seen deer shot with just about every caliber out there(that is legal) and I have used a .223, 6mm, .270, .280 and .308 on over well 1000+ WT over the years.

It’s actually probably the most valid question out of all the caliber debates. In reference to general hunter population.

I wouldn’t consider some of our PRC and LR shooters general hunter population although they tend to error more on side of caution then most.

Book the hunt. 'Nothing like it. Next year should be better (safer, etc.), but still relatively cheap. Of course, these days, buy travel insurance. Zimbabwe and Namibia (if you can find true free-range in Namibia, you have to really hunt for it) are your best values, I believe.

You only go 'round once.

I have 4 30-06 rifles. I like the 06 for the variety of loads. A buddy of mine had a 257 Weatherby mag. That was a sweet shooting gun and would be my other choice. His son had an 8mm mag. We always knew when he shot. The 8mm is definitely more gun then you need for Texas whitetails.

if you hunt the brush you need to killem where they stand or your gonna have a hard time finding them, that when the big guns come into play

Not really...it is more about shot placement for me. I shot a ton of WT in the brush country and always shoot high shoulder or point of the shoulder with my .270.

A visit to the optometrist before you go sight in might help some too. It did me one time...

Yeah .270 and Kyle's favorite, the 300 WM right up there.

I use 115gr bullet in STX bush country, no issues. Use same gun out west for mule deer with same shot placement, and no issues. All hit ground at same speed

anything larger than a 218 bee



Now obviously I'm kidding above but the bottom line once again is that it is all about the shooter and putting the bullet where it is supposed to go.
Out to 175, even 200 yards I will send one through their ribs with my 22-250 without even thinking twice and up to 275-300 with my 243. Of course that is with a very solid rest and the right conditions for a clean shot and that is also something that has to be considered any time anyone squeezes the trigger on any animal!

I have seen recoil pads on .22lrs's

.300 win mag is the greatest.

A 7mm Remington is what guys from Houston shoot

All you short guys and your super magnums

I’d put 30-06 over 300wm even thought I hate that cartridge the most.

281 comment was pretty funny though

I am not short and I really trust my Kimber 300 WM. Like a lot. A whole lot.

There are exceptions to all rules HUD. You’re Too Tall Jones arse is this exception

Long story short you missed a poll I did a few years ago on height and caliber size. It was very scientific and proved short people preferred much larger higher case capacity Cartridges compared to their taller counter parts.

I shot a white tail with a 458 Win mag at 15 yards. Needless to say it dropped in it's tracks.
It had a lot less meat damage that the various 6.5s I have used.

Hud, Kohler said you were shorter than he is.......

Bobo, short dudes like jacked up trucks too.

You must be using the wrong bullets in your 6.5's then, or you hit 'em in the wrong place maybe?

Funny that you started with the same two calibers that a tracking guy said was the calibers that he tracked more than any others.
He said that it was not a shooter problem but a "too big for whitetail" problem." He claimed that the calibers were so powerful that they would go clear through a deer and most of the energy from the bullet was not expelled into the animal, but was wasted as it passed through.
I heard a similar statement on the History Channel where an ex-sniper claimed that a 300 mag was more deadly at 300 yards than up close as more energy was put into the target rather than pass through.
Don't shoot the messenger here, I am just repeating what I heard. Is there anything to this?

I don’t buy into that logic at all. I think bullet design has a lot more to do with that than anything.

No doubt

300 win mag works best for me

Anything bigger than a 30-06 in Texas is overkill, period.

Great story.

im sticking by my comment killem where yhey stand or your gonna be looking big bucks die hard

Projectile construction designed for the speed it's going and the mass of game, is so much more important than caliber, I don't even give it much consideration anymore.

That would make me a midget.

Interesting BOBO.
I'd like to hear why you put 30-06 above 300wm

no way is a .30-06 better than a .300. Even though a .30-06 is a great cartridge.


Thats like saying a 3/4 ton gas truck is better than a 3/4 ton turbo diesel.....your just arguing for the sake of argument.



I like my .300 but I don't deer hunt with it. I may this year because I just like the rifle its chambered in and the scope, but then again I may not.


you wanna really start an argument lets talk about fixed blades vs. mechanical broadheads.....

30-06 just has a more universal following, I’m not saying it’s better it’s just more universally used thus making it greater. Plus it has almost a 60 year head start on killing.

It’s just case capacity at the end of the day.

So is the 300 Norma, 300 RUM or 30 Nosler greater then 300 Wm, even though they have ballistic and bullet choice advantages

No the 300 WM has a greater following/ownership then then those three combined.

One could agrue that the 300 PRC is greater also due to the ability to use more bullet weights and seating depth. So I just go popularity and use.

I hate the 30-06 it’s a dull boring artifact but 115 years of killing badgers to brown bears can’t be ignored

That’s easy..

Can you tune your bow?

No-> mechanical(WT- 1.5+ diameter, Elk/mule-<1.5”)

Yes-> Whitetails or western game?

Whitetails-> larger cutting diameter-> mechanical
Elk/mule-> two holes-> fixed

Fixed blades never fail to open.

even if a mechanical doesent open it still leaves a better blood trail than a fixed blade

How could this be when all it would do is poke a hole through without cutting?

But can break or fall apart upon entry, and can be finicky tuning and with wind. Also some of the best fixed heads are a pain to sharpen

List of great broadheads is shrinking with all the company buy outs and offshoring

I use both. I think their are some really good mechanicals/hybrids and bad ones, just like fixed.

Mechanical good-
Ulmer edge/serv
Evolution Hyde
Etc

Fixed-
Iron will
Cut throat
Grim micro hades
Etc

End of the day if you can’t tune your bow to shot fixed efficiently then you are better off with mechanicals.

I think with Whitetails a bigger hole is better IMO due to their ground cover speed after shot compared to mule/elk/pronghorn. IMO and experience of course

One thing about the '06 - If you're on the other side of the world, and the airline has lost your luggage with your ammo in it, and you have your rifle - you stand a better chance finding '06 cartridges than almost any other (except 7.62X39 ).

And I'll buy a round or two to watch you pointed stick guys argue in person. 'Course, I might fall asleep after the 2nd.

I’ll show you in a couple months....a 3 blade rage or wasp jackhammer thru the lungs creates as much internal damage as any bullet. It’s incredible

They are coming right up to the house, waiting on you. Have you practiced rapid re-knocking? (Or whatever you call it.) 'Need 23 off the place.

I counter that, with 7 mag is the perfect all around rifle and not overkill for anything with horn on its head.

If you want a flat shooter that beats the wind and you want common ammo on the shelf, 7 mag is it.

If 7 mag is too much, so is 30-06.

fredgus read my mind.

If you don't hit them DRT you will either have a hard time finding them in the thick stuff, or if you are hunting a smaller parcel of land you shoot, deer runs off, and 30 seconds later your hear your neighbor shoot it.

No Thank You.

I will never criticize a hunter that shoots a bigger than normal firearm at a deer unless he or she just flat out can't shoot it. Proficiency and shot placement should be the priority.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I’ve killed deer with lots of calibers, from .243 Win to .300 Win Mag. I haven’t noticed any being deader or more alive than the others.

A .30-06 is a lot more than you need for whitetail, especially Texas whitetail.

A 7mm-08, .308, .270 is about perfect.

A .30-06 kicks too much for my taste to be a general Texas whitetail round. In areas where you can get mule deer, elk and bear all in the same area it makes sense, but you can get by with a lot less for Texas deer.

In all honesty as much as I hate to admit it, the 6.5 cm probably is as close to ideal as you can get for a Texas Deer caliber

Probably just the 50 BMG.

I like the 264 win mag it is flat shooting but it pops them open more than my 300

Although I haven’t rifle hunted in years, I love a 270.
My daddy gave me a rem BDL IN 1972. It was a great shooting gun.
It suddenly disappeared 2 years ago and I’ve been sick ever since.

A .264 is a great gun.

We walked into a gun shop about 15 years ago and there was a custom browning .264 on the shelf. I made my buddy plop down thr $1100 to buy it and he has been thankful ever since

Shooting a big gun does not mean DRT. I have shot several deer and hogs in the lungs with a 300 wby that ran just like they do from a 223 or 243 or 270 etc. You take any of those calibers and take out the central nervous system and they all fall DRT.

I hunted my first 10 years with a 270. I spent the last 2 years hunting with a 30-06. The difference between 30-06 and 270 is splitting hairs.

What grain bullet are you shooting with the .30-06? Recoil is stouter with either the 150 grain or 180 grain loading from a 06’

The .270 with a 130 grain load is pretty mild

I agree...one of the deer I hit through the shoulders with a 65 Grain .223 hit the ground just as fast as the one hit through the shoulders with a 180 Grain .300 Weatherby Magnum. The common theme was the high shoulder shot, shoulder/spine(as you mentioned CNS)/shoulder. I am not a fan of the lung shot.

There is no such thing as overkill calibers.
But there is definitely not enough caliber to be sure the deer is killed humanly and not suffer or worse run off to die or be wounded and a slow death.

IMO any .22 caliber is not enough to ensure a clean kill every time. I know there are many that will argue that but a big buck is a tough animal. Why risk it.

Trying to figure out exactly what overkill is. Overly destructive?

o·ver·kill (ō′vər-kĭl′)
n.
1. The destructive use of military force beyond the amount needed to destroy an enemy.
2. The excessive use of force in killing an individual or organism.
3. Elimination or drastic reduction of an animal population by hunting or killing.
4. An excess of what is necessary or appropriate for a particular end.

4.

So describe number four in a way that killing a deer is excessive. Too much meat damage? A 150 grain 300 Winchester mag through the ribs will do less meat damage than a 243 through the backstraps.

I have a 270 win sendero. My brother has a Rem 700 LR chambered in 3006 (nearly the same gun). I worked up the loads for both. The 270 is a 150 grain at 2725 fps, pretty mild loading. The load for the brothers is a 180 grain at 2700 FPS. Recoil between the two is negligible.

I have a cz chambered in 3006 that I hunted with the past couple years. I used a box of factory 180 grain core locks mostly because I'm short on '06 brass and they were given to me free. The 180 core locks are a pleasure to shoot... much due to the fact they only muzzle at about 2500 fps.

Likewise I hunted several years with 130 grain, 140, and 150 gain 270 loads, both hand loads and factory stuff. Never really noticed much difference at all.

Y’all have another good thread going. I have to agree with the poster that stated too much gun for the shooter is where it becomes a problem. I’ve killed the most deer with a 270 and a 130 cup and core bullet. It is about perfect. These days if I’m buck hunting I usually carry a 7RM shooting a 160, even though I’m not from Houston. It works just as well. I have a 300WM that I like. For me though, the 7RM is about the upper end of what is still really comfortable to practice with in a sporter weight, un braked rifle without getting a little twitchy after 30-40 practice rounds. That threshold is individual.
I used to hunt with a fellow that shot a 270. He wounded 2-3 deer/year with it, then would call and ask me if I would bring my dog. His solution was to buy a 300 WM. We still tracked 2-3 deer/year for him. He made a great blood dog out of my bird dog. After watching him zero that 300, he needed a 243 and a lot of practice.

Gotta say on this recoil question ... I never notice it ... at all ....

Short of a meteor strike then I would say a highballing truck or train. Two of three are human controlled. The first could kill BIG game however.

big bullets never bothered me, i always favored heavy for caliber no matter what caliber. i shoot 180 partitions thru my 3006 and its definitely more than needed....but a good quality bonded bullet doesn't rip anything up too bad.

last thing I am is a ballistic or gun expert other than I have been hunting all over the world for the last 40 years and 60 years for whitetail. My dad did not have a lot of money and when I was a teenager the only rifle we had was a 8 mm Mauser - So I got real use to handling a rifle that kicked.

fast forward to these days - I was lucky to hunt on a ranch for years with amazing whitetail that would go live weight 250 lb range - the last thing I wanted to do was wound a world class buck so I went with a Tikka 300 win mag with a Winchester XP3 180 grain load.

The other thing I did was try to never take a shot over 200 yards. Many times I would have a trophy buck at over 200 yards and I would climb out of the stand and stalk to 200 or under yards to take the shot (used a bipod). Funny how I never lost a trophy buck I took a shot at. Maybe I could have done the same with a lighter caliber and load but for me it never broke so I did not try to fix it.

So in a situation where you are taking a shot at a top end trophy buck I prefer overkill and if I ruin some meat so be it - my goal was to knock them on their butt - right or wrong it has always worked for me - my 2 cents

TLK, we hunt in similar fashion.

Tlk, ditto right here, except for the all over the world part and I shout a 3006. I may of said it earlier in this thread but so much depends on why and what you hunt and HOW BAD you want it to die. Hogs and does and culls is different than the kind of hunting you do(and me.) Shout out to Hud also.

certainly nothing wrong with that, I have know hunters that the 30-06 was the only center fire rifle they had, every thing from w/t to Canadian moose.

For the last decade or so I have helped develop PCP Air Rifles. I built several scratch guns in the process, modified a few others along the way. What I have learned is 2x body weight in terms of FPE is all that is needed. So for a 150 lb Texas Whitetail, a 300 FPE air rifle is more than adequate. Accuracy and good decision making are more important than caliber and load. That is the fact of the matter.

I've shot a variety of milsurps in many rifle matches. After getting pounded by steel buttplates from an 8x57mm or 7.62x54r for 50+ shots, you learn quickly to hold the rifle tight into your shoulder and how to properly use a sling.