No Blood with Hornady Reduced Recoil for .243

We had a pretty tough situation Sunday morning. My son is hunting for his first buck this year. He hunts with a .243 and has a doe, multiple pigs, and a turkey under his belt with that rifle. Someone turned me on to Hornady's reduced recoil loads, so I ordered some thinking it might help him avoid flinching. Come Saturday I set my son up for some shooting and, after he settled in with a few jumpy shots, he started drilling the bullseye. Boom, ready to go.

Sunday morning he shot (or shot at?) a management type buck that I had scouted for him over the last 6 weeks. I watched through my binocs, but it was a little foggy. I can't say I saw the hit, but the buck folded over backwards almost to the point of being on his back before regaining his feet and hauling arse out of there. Based on the buck's reaction, I was thinking he wouldn't be far. Sadly we couldn't find a drop of blood and our search ended without a buck. We searched hard and I was back up there yesterday morning looking for buzzards and checking ponds. No luck. No sign of him on trail cameras since Sunday morning.

Anyone have any insight or experience that might be helpful here? I know sometimes weird things just happen. Maybe he shot through the brisket or grazed him low? Maybe he missed, but it certainly didn't look like it. I'm still hopeful we will either find him dead or, preferably, he will show back up alive and give my son another shot (perhaps armed with a different round).

Sounds like he was hit forward in the lower neck area or maybe brisket. It may have hit the windpipe and that is why their is a lack of blood. The backflip is a sign of being hit forward and low IME. Hair on the ground would be the only evidence of a hit on shot like that. I might suggest you let your son practice with the reduced recoil loads but then load the full loads in the rilfe to hunt with...with the adrenaline and rush of seeing the buck he will not feel the recoil of the regular loads.

I dont know that I can help but ill offer a story im wondering about myself and maybe itll help or not. My friend shot at a big buck with a muzzleloader the other day and looked forever and didnt find any blood or hair. Game camera happened to catch the buck immediately after the shot. A small red dot can be seen on camera right behind the shoulder and about 2" from shooting under him. Broadside shot. I dont know how that could not of dropped a single drop of blood but it didnt.

Agree with STx idea of switching the loads on him. Would be an issue of resighting the rifle.

I have shot and my wife has shot several deer with reduced recoil ammo. If the shot was good the deer was dead and near. If he missed his mark i dont think a full power loading would change much.

Hope you find what you want, I too would be hoping he showed back up and gave yall another go.

We had a buck last year got shot with 180 grain partition out of a 30-06. We suspect the shot hit the brisket. We never saw or got another picture of him that year never found him dead. Have another on camera we think could be him with a scar on his brisket. May take a while to see what happened.

Man I hate that for y’all. The deer my son shot opening youth left not a single drop of blood, but fortunately folded right there. He shot the 6.5 grendel, no pass through and I had a heck of a time finding the entry. I’ve had similar experiences with the .300 blackout as well. My thought with youth who can’t handle recoil is to find the biggest bullet to make a big hole, so we’re working on .270 and 7mm currently. The .44 is a great option if you can find one.

On another note, my neighbor shot a deer square in the shoulder last season with a smaller caliber and the deer is healthy as can be this season. I saw that deer last dec limping into the feed pen.. he had a slight limp this year but put on the weight and no impact to horn growth.

Sounds like a forward shot, you may find him, you may not, but I like the advice of swapping out the reduced recoil while in the stand as long as it’s zeroed to those rounds.

Well put here. My thoughts are with both of you. That sucks for you both.

Stevarino, Im curious what the one shot in shoulder that recovered was shot with. Just trying to learn.

I can’t speak for the .243 loads ( I’m not a huge fan of the round even with full power loads) but my 13 year old hunts with the hornady custom light rounds in his 7mm-08.

He has shot a several deer and several pigs. What I’ve found is that those bullets typically don’t exit and most of the time little blood is found, BUT there is massive internal damage from a heart/lung shot. He shot one Saturday at 110 yards and the deer died within sight. Not a drop of blood but the cavity inside was jello. Bullet, like most others we found, was mushroomed against the far side underneath the hide.

Maybe switch to a accubond in the .243 that way you are pretty much guaranteed a blood trail in the .243.

As Stx mentioned, practice with the reduced recoil rounds.

Sounds like the shot was just a little forward as others have said. Mine was that way over the weekend and there was hardly any blood on the ground, but the 30-06 left nothing of the deer's lungs. The difference being that a 30-06 will destroy a shoulder and turn the bone into projectiles. A reduced recoil 243 load probably won't do that. Either work on a shot placement or get some insurance with a larger load

If he hit forward like others are saying there was no vitals there to hit?

Many think it doesnt make a difference what bullets you shoot and i disagree. I have hunted with and had many women and children hunt with a 223 rem and 60 grain nosler partition. Even hitting the shoulder it has always gone through and through and left blood for us. Its not my favorite, but it performs above its weight class.

We have banned the use of the .243 on our South Texas place. Central Texas only 100 grain core-lokt are used and they still sometimes don't leave a blood trail but it's easier to find deer their than in that South Texas brush.

"I might suggest you let your son practice with the reduced recoil loads but then load the full loads in the rilfe to hunt with...with the adrenaline and rush of seeing the buck he will not feel the recoil of the regular loads."

I agree with Stx Ranchman, had the same problem with 12 yr old and his 243, flinching every time. I used the reduced recoil for one season. Did not have a single pass thru. Both deer were recovered and bullet was under the skin so no blood and made for some serious tracking problems.
I let him shoot the Hornady reduced recoil at the range to save his shoulder but switch to 100 grain regular loads in the stand. He wont notice and will feel way more comfortable pulling that trigger.
Good luck and happy hunting!

Had the same problem with 12 yr old and his 243, flinching every time. I used the reduced recoil for one season. Did not have a single pass thru. Both deer were recovered and bullet was under the skin so no blood and made for some serious tracking problems.
I let him shoot the Hornady reduced recoil at the range to save his shoulder but switch to 100 grain regular loads in the stand. He wont notice and will feel way more comfortable pulling that trigger.
Good luck and happy hunting![/quote]

I did similar with my son. He practiced with a .17HMR but when he got in the stand he used a 30.06. With the adrenaline pumping he said he never noticed the recoil from the 150gr round. He only shot the 30.06 at live game and never developed the flinch since practice was with the .17hmr.

I had considered the switch some of y'all suggested and just didn't do it. That's the plan going forward. Anyone want to sell me some ammo? Effing election.

What you have will work, just need to make sure the bullet is placed in the right spot. That excitement on the first buck can get anyone of any age rattled. What you did not mention was shot distance...how far was the shot?
Also I do not think the buck is dead, chances are he may or may not die just depending on exactly where he was hit. I am thinking he will show up on cams again or be seen in person in a couple of weeks.

use them for practice only

From an educated source - 243 Winchester

The Hornady Custom Lite .243 Win. load (87 grain SST bullet, MV 2800 f.p.s.) has a +/- 3 inch MPBR of 273 yards. However, this load generates so little energy that its Effective Killing Range (EKR) on Class 2 game is zero yards! Specifically, the load has a muzzle energy of 1515 ft. lbs., which is less than the 1539 ft. lbs. of energy that an 87 grain .243 bullet needs to get a Killing Power Score (KPS) of 15. This load is adequate for shooting large varmints and small predators (Class 1 animals), but it should not be used for hunting deer or similar sized animals.

The primary reason for using the reduced recoil .243 load is to virtually eliminate recoil during shooter training. Assuming an eight pound rifle, the reduced load produces estimated recoil of 6.4 ft. lbs., which is 37% less than the 10.1 ft. lbs. of recoil that a typical, full power 100 grain .243 load would generate.

This would be desirable when introducing a young or very recoil sensitive shooter to centerfire rifle shooting. However, the shooter should progress to shooting a .243 Winchester rifle with full power 95 or 100 grain bullet loads before he or she goes deer hunting.

59 yards according to my rangefinder. I'm got some 100 grain soft points, which is what he used on every one of his kills. But to your point, if the shot was that far off the bullet wouldn't have made the difference.

Appreciate all the feedback.

This. It is an SST bullet designed for expansion at lower velocity. Shooting a deer at 100 yards simply gives you approximately the same velocity as shooting a deer at 250 yards with a regular load. 2574 fps at 100 for reduced load,, 2600 for VMax with same Coefficient. So, I doubt it was a bullet problem, was more likely a placement problem..

Is he shooting off of bags/rest/???? when practicing? What is he shooting off of in the blind....same setup or different? Also, I have seen first time shooters of all ages misjudge exactly where to aim when a deer is standing broadside....the leg is forward vs. back almost always has the first time hunter aiming to far back or forward quite often. We used photos of deer and let them put a Sharpie dot on the spot the would aim for on various deer photos.

Over 50 years ago I can remember my Dad and I going through Field and Stream and Outdoor Life magazines looking for deer pics and various angles so that I could mark where I would shoot them. Thats still today how I picture my sight picture.

He had a good rest while practicing and in the blind. It wasn't a vice, but the All Seasons blind we were in came with a wide flat foam window seal rest that makes it pretty easy to get steady. He took his time with the shot, but obviously he only knows just how steady he was when he pulled the trigger. He said he felt good about it and has been very disciplined in the past for his age. We've also gone over shot placement quite a bit. I hadn't thought about his leg being forward leading to his shot being too far forward, but that's a possibility. One thing I'll improve next time is the height of his chair. He was on his knees to get to the right height for his shot, which may have been less than ideal. In the moment, I would have told you we had a 99% chance of success based on all circumstances. Kid was locked in. I wouldn't have let him pull the trigger otherwise. We let the same deer walk at 30 yards the previous evening because it was getting close to dark and I didn't want to risk tracking at night. Hoping this all ends well.

You sound like you know what your doing and everything was done right. Its easy for a shot to be off a little, especially with a youngster. Im gonna put money on someone seeing him again, alive and well. Hope so.

I don’t have the specifics and shouldn’t have said low caliber. I had video of him last dec and you could easily make out the bullet hole. I just can’t imagine a high caliber square in the shoulder not penetrating enough to kill that deer. I saw the deer opening day of bow and youth This season though, and as stated, he has a slight limp but looks extremely healthy. Saw last season during rifle before and after the incident.
I can only imagine the doubt one goes through after making a shot like that with no recovery.

This 6.5 grendel is a big bullet just not a lot of powder behind it and I was really nervous not seeing any blood or entry.
My oldest killed his first deer with a semi auto .44 and that bullet leaves a blood trail, but very little recoil..

Your doing all the good. Stuff happens with inexperienced hunters. My wife was 25 when i took her hunting the first time and she struggled just as much as your son. He will get it!

I tried Remington's Managed Recoil .270 ammo one season and found it as effective as the full strength stuff. However, my shots were never more than 100 yards at best.

I also tried some of both Remington and Hornady 30-30 reduced recoil ammo at the range but will never take it to the woods after finding it shot about 6 inches low at 100 yards. That's too much of a difference over standard ammo and requires scope adjustment. The .270 Managed Recoil ammo doesn't produce the same amount of drop at that distance so that no scope adjustment is necessary. I'm keeping some of both calibers in my supply for the grandkids.

Grosvenor, your ammo was adequate to kill the deer with a well placed shot. Back to the range for several practice sessions. You single load the rifle for him where he can not see what you are doing. The first shot load an empty case and watch. Do this periodically throughout each practice session until he reliably accepts taking the recoil and staying on target when the hammer falls on an empty. When he is ready it will be obvious. It will take more than one trip to the range. Be patient. The third or fourth shot in a practice is good and shows progress but the first one is the one that counts. If the 243 is jarring him more than he is willing to accept, like redchevy suggested, a 223 might be a better choice for him. (What it took when my son was little). A 243 will kill a deer dead (and so will a .223) but often without an exit with a cup and core bullet.
A game we used to play when he was small was to tune in a hunting show and he would touch the deer on the screen exactly where to shoot it.
In reading your post it sounds like you are going at things the right way with your boy. You have my respect. Be patient with the mistakes that happen along the way. Be honest about the importance of shot placement and enjoy the heck out of getting to hunt with him. Before you know it he will be getting a drivers license, discover girls, and then be headed off to college...

IMO, it shouldn't be overlooked that reloaders were likely making their own reduced recoil ammo before the big guys latched onto the market. Perhaps smaller calibers like the .243 and 30-30 offer less room to work with in terms of creating a lesser bullet and load combination that carries sufficient knock down energy. On the other hand, with the .270 making use of a much larger cartridge, designers and reloaders are starting with something that's already deep into lethal ability.

I know we have some well-versed reloaders who frequent these discussions. Perhaps one of them has some experience creating lighter loads from already light cartridges.

You are missing the boat on this one Dan. I am one of those reloader you speak of. Redchevy already mentioned the partition and the young man had plenty of gun to do the job. With an excited young man, just getting his feet wet, sometimes things don’t go as planned. Dad can cut the shirt tail off his boys hunting shirt and stay after it.

Point well taken. My comments were based on pure speculation and perhaps riding the coat tail of those who claimed these lighter loads showed no pass through.

Thanks for the input.

I'm pretty good at trailing deer. Saturday evening my niece shot her new PB with my 6.8 and 115gr Fusion while I was guiding her. The shot was near dark, 12 minutes left, but was only 60 yards. At the shot the deer jumped straight up off all four feet and took off at a dead run. He got in some shinnery and I lost sight of him in the gloom but could hear him hitting brush. Not seeing him drop, we decided to back out for 30 minutes. We went and picked up my dad from his blind.

When we got back, we went to the spot of the shot. I found what I thought was the trail but couldn't find any blood. My niece was on my right hip looking over my shoulder and couldn't see anything either. I followed the buck's route for about 60 yards and still couldn't find anything. I had my dad 10 feet to my left checking openings in side trails. After about 75 yards, I spotted the buck piled up in between three dead shinnery trees (what I had heard earlier was him crashing, not running).

My niece told me she thought the shot my be a bit low. It was low and forward, just hitting the front portion of each leg and penetrating the cavity a little below and in front of the heart, just above the brisket and breastbone. She got all the good arteries, though. Here's where this applies to OP-because the bullet went in through the legs, the muscles in each leg kind of closed the hole. On the inside of the impact side leg, in the 'armpit' so to speak, there was a cantaloupe-sized hematoma where the blood had all pooled under the hide. So we got the desired result, a dead deer, but the expected blood trail was all still inside the deer.

I can only comment on the Remington Reduced Recoil 7mm-08 round. All my daughter's shots resulted in a dead animal that didn't go far at all. But she managed to put them all in the right place thankfully. Never had any doubts in the ammo. All her shots were less than 150 yards.

Maybe you will see it again or find it to learn what happened?

Good luck!

Good post.

Dead right there (DRT) is a term I try to avoid after seeing deer and especially hogs that have taken a lethal hit bolt and run like they weren't even touched. IMO, it's a term than can result in less experienced hunters giving up too quickly and easily when looking for deer after taking a shot at one.

a 6.5 grendel is one of the worst rounds in the deer woods imo. I let my son use one for half a season and never again

Nice to have a 'blood trail' but most mortally wounded deer will expire within 200 yds. of the impact location (often within 100 yds).... so simply canvassing a 200 yd. circle will usually turn up your animal.

IF not found in that area then chances are excellent it was NOT a 'good' hit and the deer can travel quite a long ways. In that case, even if you had a sparse blood trail....you often never find the deer.

When searching for deer....don't be inclined to look only in the direction you last saw it go. They can veer off directions you might not expect or even double back. Always search in a complete circle IF you haven't found the animal within a reasonable distance, the way you think it went.

Agree with the info from chuck hawks website

Try the 170gr 30-06 Lite Federal Fusion.... 80yd broadside shot on 140lbs doe, dead center shoulder hit with a exit wound and great blood trail; she went maybe 40-50yds and left a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow!

I've guided youth hunts before with .243's in full power loads, with broadside shots inside 100yds and failed to get exit wounds and blood trails, now that I think of it I don't remember ever getting an exit wound with a .243 - And yes that was with 100gr bonded ammo.

My son has been a killing machine with his grendel. Low recoil and plenty of knock down for us.

I'll just reiterate, I think there is too much emphasis being put on a having a 'blood trail'. A blood trail (if substantial) certainly makes tracking much easier but far too many people rely on one and many deer are not recovered each year when folks 'give up' for lack of having a big red road to follow.

The majority of deer if hit well in the vitals will be within 200 yards of the impact site....usually less. Every inch of that circumference should be thoroughly searched. If the animal was hit hard....more often than not it will be recovered.

Yes, I recognize the terrain has a lot to do with that. Believe me...I've been on my hands and knees crawling through the thickest white-brush and cactus South Texas has to offer and Greenbriar and Bramble here is Deep East Texas, but if you put in the effort you'll find your deer (if well hit).

I am thinking the move to the reduced recoil ammo was to cover up something short on the part of the shooter. It's the shooter that needs fixing and the need for reduced recoil ammo is misplaced. If the shooter cannot accurately shoot the gun with the ammo intended for it, then something else needs to be done. Seldom is there a true quick fix to shortcomings.

What ammo are you both using? We use the hornady black 123 gr eld. My son dropped his buck youth weekend like a sack of concrete. Ive never had an animal run, just not a lot of blood..

It looks like we might get another shot, but I’m not 100% sure what I’m seeing. The first two pics are trail cam pics from October of the buck in question. He is easy to recognize because of the kicker on his right g2. Yesterday evening I got one pic of what I think may be the same buck. The pic is a little fuzzy and pigs and turkeys came in a minute later, so I just have the one pic. Maybe one of you master photo editors can help me out here. What do y’all think? Is the third pic the same buck? If so, we’re back in business and I’ve got a great excuse to be back at the ranch this weekend. The fourth pic is my attempt to zoom in and enhance, but I suck at it. I need some of those folks from the Bourne movies or something.




And here is the pic from yesterday evening...

Sure looks like the same buck to me

Looks like he's still alive! Personally, I think the .243 is one of the most overrated calibers out there for deer hunting. Start the process now on getting a suppressor.

How many have you personally shot with one?

Two. And had good shots on both and very little blood trail and they ran much farther than I would have liked to see, so I'll never use it again and neither will my son. Probably another 6-8 by my brother with the same results, or not recovering them at all. And another 3-4 with one of my best friends son, same results.

There are tons of better calibers for deer hunting that still have manageable recoil, IMO.

Easy bud, he’s 9 and I suspect the only shortcoming was a case of buck fever. He has a handful of kills with his 243 using standard 100 grain rem CLs. I made the switch based on a friend’s recommendation and have been kicking myself because we may have had a better chance at a blood trail with a standard load. Regardless, it looks like we may have our shot at redemption.

They sure like 243's at the King Ranch (at least they used to). I wonder what they don't know?

He almost certainly missed and guess what, that's OK, nothing to lose sleep over. It happens and I'd rather see a clean miss than a wounded animal. Good luck to him getting another pop at it.

Deer that get shot at and missed don’t fold over backwards

It looks like the same buck to me. Good luck.

Very unpredictable what a small load will do inside a decent sized buck - especially if the short is a little forward.

FWIW, my son is small/light for his age. After a similar experience to yours, I quickly moved him up from the biggest 223 load I could find to my .270 with 150 grain bullets. He handled it just fine. Now, he has a lot more room for error. He can go high shoulder, and even nice big full grown bucks drop quick. Might just gun up. I bet the boy will handle it fine with all the adrenaline flowing.

My son spent a ton of time learning to shoot live things with a .17 hmr, then a little time with the .223, and he took to the .270 with no apparent transition issues whatsoever. We do not do a lot of target shooting. Very little in fact. I just make sure the guns are sighted in. We just varmint hunt a lot and hunt a lot.

I asked because I've personally shot ~60-80 with a .243, and my dad has killed somewhere around 150. Granted, these are central TX whitetails, but hit with a decent bullet in the vitals, we never had a problem recovering a deer. Until they grouped poorly most were shot with 100gr Corelokt and very few times did we not get an exit hole. Now, it's not a 7mag, but it's a good deer cartridge if the hunter knows what he's doing.

I've killed lots of deer with a 243. Looked for some, tracked some but I've always found the ones that where hit. If the boy likes the gun just calm the nerves a bit and he will be fine. I have always shot 100 grain soft tip core locks and like I said have killed plenty.

That has been my experience as well.

Very sporadic performance. Sometimes deer bled well and died easy, some bled little and ran a long ways. Some were hit good and never found, even with dogs.

Ive tried to stay away from turning this thread into a debate over an effective deer caliber/cartridge. The fact that Quit(whos opinion I respect) has killed over 200 deer with one speaks to the fact that it can be effective. However i think Quit is somewhat of an excellent marksman. If you put the gun into inexperienced hands and there is just not near as much room for error. If my opinion a bigger more powerful cartridge is always better but I am well aware that you must manage recoil with a beginner. I do not think there is an easy answer to the dilemma of what to start out a youngster on.

FWIW ( pertaining to the OP’s dilemma ) when I was comming up, a lot of kids shot .22-250’s and .243’s. I was given a .30-30 and shortly after a .270. A .270 is pretty stout for a slight 11 year old kid but I managed and never lost a deer with it.

Maybe as a whole we need to re-think the small caliber advise for younger hunters. There is a middle ground to be found

we've probably shot 20-30 deer with 243's. About 1/3 of those were with the reduced recoil Hornady's and the rest were with core-loc's. Some deer had great blood trails, some didn't have any. Some shots blew straight threw the deer, others exploded inside the deer. Same thing with a 308. Some pass right through, others explode. Based on my own personal experience, the Hornady reduced recoil in 243/308 and the regular 243/308 SST's are more likely to explode on impact and I've never see a nice mushroomed bullet when using one. If I'm hunting somewhere that I absolutely need to have a passthrough, I go back to plain old core-loc's. We generally shoot high shoulder, but I've seen it on shots farther back as well.

Agree 100%, a .243 has accounted for nearly 20 deer for me. When hit in the right spot with a 90-100 grain bullet they seem to die very quickly, most have fallen where they stood for me.

For many years I wasn't a great marskman (still am not, but I get by). I get that there is a difference between shooting hill country WT at 100-200 yards, versus shooting lg south TX bucks at 200-300 or more. But Bell killed elephants with a danged 6.5; WTs are not tanks. The vital zone on a WT is substantial, nearly 8"x8", and further back you can catch liver, further forward you might get neck. A .243 is not a 7mag, but 100gr bullet still carries a lot of energy.

The thing I see most with this type of situation is unlearned hunters or poor shots. If that buck is the same deer, he looks fairly healthy for having taken a round a few days ago. Looks to me like it was a non-vital hit (or even a close miss). A non-vital hit with a .30-06 or a .243 is still a non-vital hit. 'Hit good and not found' does not compute. If you didn't find him, you can't really say how well he was hit, and most well-hit deer die quickly. My uncle shot a buck with a .270, 130gr PowerPoint-we tracked that deer 600 yards and never found him. He thought it was hit well. We killed him opening day of the next year. The shot was in the shoulder, but low, and apparently at a shallow quartering-away angle so he didn't get any cavity. The front shoulder/chest muscles were all knotted up and the deer was three-legged, carrying it like this, with 6" hooves.




Hunters that show up at the place a few times a year, never shoot much in between, and have low experience to begin with experience these types of problems with much greater frequency. They're not familiar with the gun, they aren't sure of the sight picture or how the deer was standing, they don't know the land and don't know specifically to watch which way the deer went and what trail he was on. They don't do adrenaline very well. I've been on many tracking jobs that started with 'I *think* he went this way' or 'He was standing kinda over here'. Those are the jobs where you have a much harder time finding the deer, if you do at all.

Dangit, now I sound like a preachy jerk. I'll hang up and listen. Good luck to the young hunter, I wish him quick redemption on his next trip out!

What do you mean he looks fairly healthy? I only have a pic of the right side of his face, if it's him at all (fingers very crossed). We'll see what happens.

We've also killed plenty of deer with a 243 and I'm not questioning the rifle's effectiveness and certainly wasn't looking to start a debate.

Thanks for all the feedback folks, and I'll report back either way when I know more. Hopefully with pics of a dead deer and a very smiley whippersnapper.

It sounds like the OP is optimistic that the deer is alive and well and from the pic I think he should be. Hes ready to move on. Its not up to me to say but if the effectiveness of a 243 wants to be debated im sure it will rage on if someone starts a new thread in the Firearms section. This really has been an enjoyable thread and I think some knowledge was there to be gained. Please keep us posted if the buck shows up more. Good luck.

Good luck OP. I hope your boy gets his deer. I remember when my son got his first buck.

.243 is junk!.......Please send all that worthless .243 ammo to me so I can dispose of it properly!

Appears to be the same buck from that photo, hope he gets back on him!

I would have 100% faith in the 243. And i also 100% believe that the reduced recoil ammo is at no fault. If the bullet would have hit vitals you would have a dead deer. Maybe he would have been hard to trail but he would have been dead.

Grosvenor, you should check out some federal premium 100 grain nosler partitions for your 243, it will almost, if not always make 2 holes.

Thanks

I shoot Hornady White Tail ammo and a 30.06. There is not much blood with those either and they rarely pass through and leave an exit wound. They do a lot of internal damage especially to the lungs and tracking more than about 20 yards has not been necessary. Maybe the Hornady bullet design??

Is that a kicker on the right g2 or not?

A 243 is plenty of gun for killing deer. I’ve only seen one instance where it didn’t do the job with a well placed shot. This was 35 years ago and my grandfather shot a nice buck in the center chest facing us. It turned and started running off. I shot him in the back of the neck with my 243 and he flipped. His bullet blew up with no penetration on the chest at a little over 100 yards. There are much better bullets now and we shot what was cheapest. It’s not what caliber you’re shooting it’s where you put the bullet. If he had shot that deer in the center of the neck I wouldn’t have had to shoot. We were driving around in the truck and things happen in a hurry when killing deer like that.

Same pic enhanced

Looks like same buck to me.

my daughter shoots a 243 for deer. Her buck this year was a perfect high heart, lung shot. Not a single drop of blood but massive internal damage. He ran into the pasture and tipped over after 30 yards. I'm glad because he left no trail. I let Sam practice shooting from the lead sled so she gets no recoil. When she's hunting she does not notice and does not flinch. Just a thought.

22.250, shoot them in the head. Hud spawn three still uses it.

Looks like the same deer to me

My oldest boy shot his last year using the 7mm-08 custom lite and it did the job. I have confidence in the custom lite loadings.

Looks like the same deer to me. Your boy is gonna be fine and he had plenty of gun. In my earlier post I suggested you give him more range time. I stand by that. In your OP you described him as getting a little twitchy when he got on the trigger before settling down and putting them in the bullseye. I suspect that is exactly what happened. He is a 9 year old and that stuff happens. It happens less the more they shoot. I raised one up that collected a pretty good bone pile with a 223 before he got big enough to handle a 7-08. Going to smaller cartridges to minimize recoil like you do with kids increase the odds of not getting a pass through and put a premium on marksmanship. There is no free lunch.
Stick with him and help him work through getting twitchy when he gets on the trigger. That’s what dads are for.
I would have cut his shirt tail off and pinned it on the wall rather than look for an excuse how it happened. An old tradition around deer camps that taught the kids to own their mistake and motivated them to up their game. Too many fun traditions are falling by the wayside to keep from hurting someone’s feelings...
Best of luck to you and your boy. I hope he gets another crack at him and makes good on it this time.

Yep

I understand blood trails and have been hunting for over 50+ years, and I've had my experiences of trailing a blood trail for miles and not finding the animal.
As also being a bowhunter and gun hunter, blood trails and pass thru's are critical for the bowhunter, more so than with a rifle that doesn't depend on severing arteries and blood vessels as the primary way to induce a kill.
The one fact remains is that if you have a well placed shot with whatever deer caliber rifle you are using, you will find the deer piled up within 100 yards and even closer most of the time, and a blood trail is a moot point.
A poor shot is not the fault of the caliber rifle you are using, and no amount of blood from a poor shot is going to guarantee you find the deer.
A high shot on a deer with a rifle may not bleed for a long ways even with the pass thru as the deer bleeds internally, and by the time you find blood the deer will be laying nearby.
People seem to get critical about blood trails and pass through, but then end the criticism by saying, "we found the deer a few yards away but no blood or pass through!"
I helped track a deer last year that my neighbor shot with a .308 double lung (high) hit and we found no blood. The neighbor smelled the dead deer as it was during the rut, and that is how he found it.....It had run only 75 yards!

For all the speculation about the choice of ammo, rifle, buck fever, range time, etc., I finally got some information last night that really helped me make sense of things. I was showing my son trail cam pics and said "tell me exactly where you were aiming on your buck?" and he pointed at the spot where the front leg meets the body and said "right here like you told me." Now I don't know what I said in the moment to confuse him, but apparently I did. We had a bearded hen in the previous evening and talked about aiming at the base of the neck, but we have also talked a bunch about deer shot placement and I even pulled up some illustrations on my phone (which I have done with him many times). Hell, he killed a doe with a perfectly placed shot last year. I often tell him to use the front leg as a reference point when he's lining up and I must have said something that confused things. I'm betting we find a spot where he grazed him low (hopefully).

Deer are tough animals and he will survive!
I've seen deer survive wounds that to this day I can't believe an animal could survive.
Depending on the severity of the wound he may be bedding not far from the feeder until he begins to heal and regains some strength, so right now would be optimal time to spend on that stand or somewhere nearby.

I hope my post was not misconstrued as being critical. As I said in my first post, you have my respect for the path you are taking your son down. I wish I saw more men doing the same with their kids than I see. At his age things more experienced hunters take for granted sometimes don’t go as planned while they gain experience. It is all part of their genesis as a hunter as we pass the torch to the next generation. Hopefully he gets another crack and closes the deal. All the best to you and your son.

Not at all, amigo. Thanks for the well wishes.

Went a similar route with my Daughter. She started deer hunting with me when she was 9 years old, but had previous experience on varmints. I started her with a .223 and she took several deer with that rifle.....but we had to track each and everyone of them well over 100 yds. Still, with good shot placement it got the job done.

When she turned 11 we put the .223 aside and got her a .243, the slight increase in recoil was negligible and the deer started going right down or ran only very short distances. She took probably 10 deer with that rifle.

Then at 14 we moved her up to a 7mm-08 (still her current rifle 20 years latter) and she has absolutely slayed the deer with that cartridge (perhaps the ideal deer cartridge). She is very self regulating in terms of the shot she will take and I can honestly say (to date) she has never missed a shot on anything or failed to kill it cleanly.

Hopefully the OP's boy will get another crack at the buck (or another one) and be successful. There is really nothing like 'success' to build ones confidence. After that....I'm sure he will be fine.

I just moved a box full of antlers from Bucks that my Daughter has killed over the years into storage, time to start another box and I pray that we have more years of hunting together and time to share.

it just happens sometimes. lots of practice is king, and practice on paper isn't the same as practice out of the stand. it helps to have some shot experience under your belt and no way to get it except taking the shot. there's certainly things you can do to improve odds on killing deer. As a more seasoned hunter who has shot a lot of deer and hogs, some shot more favorably and with better results than others...i favor heavier bullets because they seem to reliably bring better performance. BUT i've shot lotss of deer with anything from a .223 to a 3006 or a 4570 and the ones that were reasonably well hit all died where they could be found without too much difficulty. Some shots just don't go right, deer that cannot be found were probably not hit well or at all.

we did on a side note seem to have consistently bad luck with a bullet my brother hand loaded for a while, a hornady inner-bond i think it was. it shot well on paper but it just didn't perform well on game. none-the-less the animals that were hit well died where we could find them.

Three nights in a row. 100% same deer. We are going after him Saturday.

Awesome!!!! I cant wait to see what kind of wound he has. Take care of business and let us know.

Apologies if it's been mentioned and I'm sure it has but I dialed in a Rem 700 .243 with Hornady Whitetail 100 grain that was sub MOA. I ran Hornady 87 grain Lite loads and they were high/right @ 4.5 inches. If you are going to pull a bait and switch on rounds, I'd know what turret adjustments to make before doing so. It's one thing to "pull a shot" when your are zeroed in. It's a whole new ball game if you're already off from the get-go.

That's for SURE him. Great news.

Hope to see a picture with your young man holding his antlers soon. Best of luck to you.

Hmmm....



Injured leg?

Doesnt appear injured or tucked up in the other photo thought does it?

Good luck hope he gets him!

I saw it mentioned about practicing with a 17hmr earlier. Even to this day I start off with a dozen rounds through my 17 before zeroing in larger rifles. Good advice.

As is dry firing, it make a flynch/jerk/pull very apparent! especially if the shooter doesnt know its a dry fire!

Yeah, 'load' the rifle for him and see what happens! Always good for a laugh with my brother-in-law. I'm not sure it's fair to the word to call something that large a 'flinch'.

Go time.




It’s 7,000 degrees in South Texas. I must really love this kid. He shot 12 times this afternoon, all good shots. Just need his buck to cooperate.

Well, his buck came in late and got run off by a mid-sized boar. Little man fixed that. Literally ear holed him. Confidence builder.

on the right track!

Shot fired and I think I watched him pile up!

Oh my . . .

I feel kind of like I’m in the waiting room of the maternity ward. Kind of.

Just catching up on this. I’m pulling for the little man.

Yep

Did you sight the rifle in with the reduced recoil ammo? Most likely, the point of impact was changed when changing ammo.
Adios,
Gary

Great shot on the hog! Pins and needles!

Dang. Not a good sign to not hear back. Still hopeful.

Success! The buck came in around 645am this morning. We took a few minutes to calm nerves, and then he setup for what would be a perfect shoulder shot. His buck managed to run about 50 yards before crashing hard in the tall grass. My son was a little worried that he couldn’t see him down, but I had no doubt this time around. We gave it 20 minutes before making a quick recovery. Couldn’t ask for a better first buck and the drama last weekend just made it that much sweeter. I couldn’t find any sign of last week’s shot, so I guess it had to be a clean low miss. It must have been REAL close for that buck to damn near do a complete backflip. I guess we’ll never know. It’s probably worth mentioning that he inherited his 243 from my wife’s mother, whom he never had the privilege to meet. I like to think she’d be very pleased.

Sorry for the delay getting pics out, but we had a busy morning. His buck now resides with Tommy at Brush Country Taxidermy. Tommy tooth aged him at 6.5, which is a year older than I thought he was on the hoof.

Great day.

Yeah I was surprised just how much we had to adjust with the new ammo. We shot quite a few rounds before the Saturday evening hunt.

Thanks for all the feedback and helpful suggestions everyone.

Redemption can be awesome!

Awesome!

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!! Congratulations, young man!

Great buck! Congrats to your boy for sealing the deal.

Well done. Looks like y’all had a heck of a day. Congrats to both father and son!

Glad it ended up this way! Congrats to him and you!

Congratulations young man and kudos to you Dad! I shot a big buck opening morning with a Federal .308 165gr Sierra Game King boat-tail SP. I was worried about the shot because I grabbed the wrong rifle when I packed up (it was in a gun case just like my .270.) I loan the rifle out sometimes.
On opening day at 6.55 AM I had a buck convention and there were two large mature bucks moving among the other 4 and I picked out a nice symmetrical 8 pt, squeezed the trigger and he dropped like a rock with nary a twitch. While waiting the mandatory 30 minutes my son in law shot a 12 pt at 7:21AM and two minutes later my brother dropped an 8 pt. Sorry to take so long to get to the point. When I looked at my deer I had hit him in the shoulder, breaking it and there was no exit wound. There was not one drop of blood on him nor on the ground where he was laying. I had to look hard to find the entry wound. The bullet demolished his lungs, heart and part of his trachea and esophagus and his chest cavity was filled with blood, but none came out until we loaded him in the truck and even then it was just a little. It was the biggest deer I have ever taken. I estimate field dressed was 160lb minimum and for our lease in the Hill Country with a 2000 acre day lease next door, he's a good one. I've tracked bloodless deer kills for my hunting partners and have mostly been successful, but I didn't find one until 5 days later.

Heck yeah, congrats to you both!

Did yall end up using the reduced recoil ammo again on the buck?

Great pics! Love the smile!! Congrats

We switched to 100 grain soft points (Federal Nontypical is all I could find and worked just fine), but to be honest we still didn't get a pass through or any blood. The shot took out the left shoulder and about 1/3rd of the heart and the buck still made it about 50 yards. We did recover the bullet, which makes for a fun souvenir. Like many have said on this thread, shot placement is of course the most critical factor. But it would be nice to have some blood...

Awesome outcome! Great work by you both!

Great that it worked out. Never good to wound and lose a deer but it would potentially be a real turnoff for a youngster(some.) So no limp or any sign of injury. Im just curious but about how much elevation change was it on the ammo switch. Great buck by the way and a good one for a kid. I figure it could of been a lot smaller and he would of been happy but much bigger and it could of gotten him spoiled.

Excellent!

Now that you ask, I actually had to move the elevation up about 2 inches at 60 yards. That doesn't sound right, does it?

You're absolutely correct that he would have been thrilled with any buck really, but we let a fair number of deer like that one die of old age every year just because nobody is targeting 130 class 8 points. I knew he was going to want to see it on the wall, so I tried to find a pretty one. I just liked the look of that deer and so did he.

Glad to see this resulted in a happy ending! Congrats to your son!

My daughter shoots the reduced recoil loads out of her 7mm 08. Out of the 8 deer my kids have shot with that gun, we've had 1 pass thru with a great blood trail.

The rest of the deer have run 30-40 yards and piled up with no blood trail.


I have debated over and over again about moving away from the reduced recoil rounds, but the gun/ammo combo is a tack driver. My kids shoot it extremely well and when hit in the vitals, the deer never go far. My son has pulled one shot and hit his buck in the liver. That deer went 30 yards.


So if you make a great double lung shot, you will find the deer. If you make a poor shot, chances are you may get very little blood even with a pass thru, and you will still have a difficult track.



I shot a 12 point this weekend with my 6.5 Creedmor. Double lunged him and clipped the top of the heart. Had a clean pass through, and not 1 drop of blood until where he piled up 20 yards away.

2 years ago I shot a cull and a 10 pt on back to back hunts. Hit both deer in the exact same place taking out both lungs with a clean pass thru. The cull ran 100+ yards and didn't start bleeding until about 60 yards from where he was shot. The 10 pt left a blood trail from point of shot to where he crashed 35 yards away that Ray Charles could have followed.


So nothing is a guarantee, add all that up, and I chose to stay with what has dropped every animal within 30-40 yards of where they have been shot.

Awesome!!! Congrats to the young man! That's a great story, and he'll always remember it! The struggle makes it sweeter.

I'm very surprised you had to adjust the scope that much. Makes me wonder if it was a little off to begin with? I've been shooting the same load forever, so maybe I'm being naive about that.

I was surprised too, but the windage was perfect and it was two inches low at 60 yards when we shot the new ammo. We were punching holes through the bullseye at the same distance with the reduced recoil loads just a week before, with no subsequent adjustments to the scope. Maybe it got bumped, but it seems like the windage would have been off too, if that was the case. I'm no ballistics expert, but I would have guessed we would be shooting high when we switched to the regular loads. It was a heavier bullet....hell, I don't know. The deer is dead.

I agree it doesnt matter on this buck but interesting to talk about the scope adjustment. I would of thought what you thought on the impact with new ammo. Put a thread in the Firearms section and the experts there should satisfy our curiosity about what it SHOULD of done. My kids are past this stage and I have no experience with reduced loads but if I was to start a kid out I would seriously consider reduced load. However, I would think if you did that you could go with a 708 and it would still be fine for kids and yet he could keep that same rifle forever with other loads. No firearms expert so the advise only worth about as much as you paid for. Enjoyed the thread.
Now if you want to talk about how to get rid of those 130 8 pts we can keep going.

haha, thanks man.

I guess one thing we haven't discussed on this thread is what the deer actually scored. I'll set the over/under at 130...and maybe just to give everyone a point of reference, the inside spread was 16.5.

That's why it's important not to assume about ammunition. Sight height, barrel harmonics/length, bullet designs/weights-many things can affect POI.

I'll go over by just a hair, maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I'm at 131 1/8.

I came up with 128 before I realized you gave us the spread and I only had it at 15 so thats 129.5. But if I missed spread that much then ill fudge up on the rest and say 131. Is this the same place where the BIL passed what may be one of the better looking bucks ive ever seen??

Yessir, but I think he's planning to go back after him this weekend.

134

Under 130 but not much. 128 5/8

Well, what did he score?

133 2/8ths

Smokey and QSYB were right on it.

Awesome buck and congrats!