Gut Shot

Watching hunting shows lately and keep hearing how great a shot it was; so much so they can barely contain their excitement. Then they show the shot and the Deer are gut shot! Growing up, I got my Butt Chewed for that( ). Most of those are "Stick & String" hunters with the fancy training wheels; is this acceptable now days?

...I hunt rifle only...prefer a quick harvest.

Make the kill quick and painless as possible...

This is the exact reason I can't watch the majority of hunting shows. A good shot is not in the guts. There's only a select few that I'll watch and they'll own up if it's a bad shot.

I watched a guy shoot a pronghorn at 86 yds, hit it in the ham. You could tell they had to leave it for hours for it to bleed out, and then they start high-fiving and such. The whole time I'm thinking 'What an unethical shot'.

I saw a show yesterday, guy had deer at feeder getting extra footage, deer started walking away and he couldn't get it to stop, shot it while still walking and hit in back ham. Deer ran off off course. went watched footage back at nice lodge/dinner, next morning went out and found deer and then started saying how good of shot it was and praising the Muzzy Broadhead and that his good shot caused arrow to angle in at back quarter and then turn forward and exit out rib cage. What a joke!

In some ways, it's a good thing the local, dying, land-line/cable co-op took the outdoor channels off my basic package in a pitiful attempt to make more money. I got sick of watching that buffoonery. And don't get me started about poor pointed stick guys. (Some very close friends hunt archery and I am NOT talking about them. )

Add to that the backing out and leaving them till morning. For me to let lay overnight there better be snow on the ground. I’d rather risk pushing/loosing one the night of the shot than find it 25 yards into the brush the next morning. I don’t believe I’ve ever hunted a time that an animal could have sat over night and still been edible.

I'm not eating an animal left over night and I'm not leaving one overnight.

If you leave it out overnight in most places I have hunted, the coyotes would have it for breakfast before I got there.

Yeah, they’re hunting South Texas in shirt-sleeves and leaving them overnight. Grinds my gears.

What I have learned in my time hunting with a bow and arrow:


The arrow does not always go where it appears to go. The lung and liver on a deer goes a lot further back than most people realize. I’ve hit some deer pretty far back thinking to myself “ damn that looked like a bad shot” only to find the deer piled up in 40 yards with no guts behind hit.

A well placed arrow is as quick of a kill as a rifle. I’ve seen more deer shot with a rifle than I can count, and a arrow thru the lungs/heart is as quick a kill as a bullet thru the lungs/heart. A good expandable broadness will cause massive damage...most leave a 1 3/4”- 2” entrance and exit hole. A rage will make a slice like you can’t imagine. I have no issues shooting anything short of a moose or grizzly with my bow.


As far as hunting shows go....I haven’t been impressed with one in a long time. Some are good and entertaining but that’s the exception not the rule, and I certainly wouldn’t form any opinions based off of what I saw happen on tv

You can leave an animal overnight in most cases and it will be fine unless it’s god awful hot out. Seen it firsthand

You shank a deer at last light in 50 degree weather and find it in the morning your gonna be good to go. Something big like an elk or moose maybe a different story. I saw an elk spoil in September here in Texas that was shot and recovered an hour later

The South TX hunt I’m referencing they claimed the high was 87 degrees. They hunted the next morning and THEN looked for the deer, THEN had to call a dog. Likely found the deer over 20 hours later.

Yeah I would have passed on eating that one.


But it’s wise if your not sure of the hit, to back out and find it the next morning.

Rather find it the next morning 40 yards in than push it and never find it at all

Aw look, another anti bow hunting thread.

Can' believe I would ever need to make decision about eating something left overnight.

I saw this show and it made me mad as heck . It was an unethical and terrible shot .

I think hunting shows make it seem like leaving a deer overnight is really common place. It’s really not, kinda a last resort kind of deal

Re the TV show bow hunters, I always wonder how they recover a deer that is hit in, what appears to be, a non vital area. Or, it would be for rifle. I do notice that they pull the arrow prior to showing a downed deer. I assume that they are hunting small high fenced places.

One young guy bow hunts my place. He is good and has never failed to recover a deer or hog. I've lost them when using my 30 caliber cannons.

It's hard to get an animal to line up for a perfect shot attempt with a bow in the real world. No way I'd attempt some of these shots seen on these hunting shows.

Makes my blood boil at the lousy shots made and the fist bumps after such crappy shots. I watched a show once where 8 of the 10 kills were extremely high stunning the deer and knocking them down in their tracks. I'd feel like a piece of sh*t making a shot like that and damn sure wouldn't be fist bumping anyone

Well call the game warden and issue me a waste of game ticket, because if I shot one I couldn't find... .notice I said couldn't find lol not left over night, its going on the gut pile 100% guaranteed. Not that i would have to worry because the coyotes would have it polished off long before dawn.

All said I am a fan of bow hunting and do it myself. My experience is a gut shot animal with a rifle is usually a much quicker easier track/find than a bow. Ive trailed maybe 5 gut shot animals that someone in our family myself included have shot. 1 was a long difficult sweated weather we were going to find it till the bloody end track but we found it (223 rem) but the others were all with 270 win's and maybe one with a 4570, none of them went more than 20-30 yards, most fell in sight of the hunter and the ones that didnt were a piece of cake to find.

Eh, if a deer runs off due to bad shot, just shoot another deer, it’s no big deal. You don’t have to use your tags unless you find the game.

Sorry, I despise bow hunting just for this reason. Sure, there’s lotsa good ethical bow hunters, but there’s an awful lot that ain’t practiced or ethical, or even give a GD. The only reason they bow hunt is because they get an extra (early) 30’day head start. Heck, they can have a few deer wounded before regular season even starts for everybody else.

Bow hunters are the bicyclist of the hunting world.

Definitely it’s intention

I've been with a few outfitters who have personally changed their position on tv show hunters and refuse to book them or guide them anymore primarily for 2 reasons:
1. They are real PIA about filming, retakes, and
2. wanting to leave a shot animal until next day to look for animal

Et Tu maximus_flavius?

Ouch

We had one we could not find due to darkness. Was shot with rifle but not gut shot, found it early next morning after a 20 degree night. The meat was good thankfully.

Personally, I wasn't trying to pick on archery, it was just the most recent one I saw. I also watched one further back where they shot a bull elk 5 times with a large magnum and acted like it was a great feat of hunting/shooting.

I've also seen a couple of shows recently where the guys went home empty-handed rather than take a bad shot. I commend those guys.

The best videoed hunting ive seen in 20 years came off of youtube.

I have a love hate with shows. They can be the best and worst promoter of our heritage and traditions.

One thing I think we ignore or failed to mention is true wounding death rate of gun vs bow. Neither are ideal situations but archery does have its advantages on non-lethal bad shots. With that said I do commend those that can admit they need to back out to have any chance of finding an animal. The no blood no hit ideology is terrible

I love to archery hunt elk but it’s mainly because I only want to hunt bugling bulls. Elk probably has the largest non lethal wound rate.

Regardless more weapon seasons based on a sustainability model is more opportunity outside pursuing and participating in our heritage

Pull the arrow? This isn’t dances with wolves where the arrow sticks in maybe 6” most arrows fired from modern bows zip right on thru a deer

Every single bow hunter I know practices more with their bow than with their rifle. The head start is just a technicality as most bowhunt all year long ( not to mention MLD rifle season starts the same time as archery season ) and not just during October. This time of year I’m shooting at least 25-40 arrows a day, as do most bow hunters I know. How many rifle hunters do you know that shoot 25-40 rounds a day?

I don’t know what redneck arrow slingers you have in your neck of the woods but if you want to take a group of guys down at the archery shop and guys down at the local shooting range a week before deer season and compare skills and ethics, the archery guys win hands down.

I’ve had to listen to that presumptive mess your spewing my entire life and when pressed, no one could ever come up with an example of what turned them off about bowhunting, it was just assumptions and preconceived notions

What turns me off about bow hunting is seeing deer on camera with arrows sticking in their haunches that the neighbors put there.

Yeah we bowhunters get it. If your not sitting in a big box with a heater and a cooler of beer your not a real hunter.

In Gillespie county I had a young man neighbor once tell me he's a bow hunter "'Cause using a rifle just wasn't enough of a challenge." Apparently, it had nothing to do with him liking to climb the fence and poach on his neighbors' properties.

If the first shot when practicing is not exactly where you want then the other 24-39 are a waste of time for me. I am shooting 3-9 shots per day depending on what my first arrow does. I am concentrating on making that first shot count since I am only going to get one chance in the field. If my first shot is good I will shoot 2-8 more at various ranges, concentrating on every shot at that range. If my first shot is not good then I may stop at one or shoot 3 shoot max that day. This is what works for me.
For me I think archery hunters will wait for the shot they like, where as a rifle hunter will take the shot that is given to them. I hunt with a bow, crossbow, muzzle loader or rifle every season. After the shot, I am watching and listening to what the deer is doing and which direction is heading when it leaves. Most TV guys are promoting themselves and their sponsors to the camera/viewers. It is more about the kill than the shot placement to them. I have seen some shots taken on video that were poor to say the least and the aired on the shows. Nothing was said until the recovery about how poor the shot was either. You can tell if they are showing marginal to bad shots on their shows that they are trying to fill in the 13 shows they need for that season. The better shows just do not show those hunts on the air even though they may have happened. Many times you can tell by how much rigor is in the dead animal as to how long it was till it was recovered. Lot of times they are hoping you did not see the bad shot then raving about the current broad head they are shooting at the time. It makes up for their "marginal" shot placement.

I completely agree with most everything being said on this thread and to be completely honest I quit watching hunting shows years ago because of crap like this along with a lot of them killing immature deer just to get it on tape and sell a show.

One thing I will say is that a bow is every bit as deadly as a rifle when the broadhead is put where it is supposed to go. The bow hunter simply has to be much, much closer than a rifle hunter with a 300 win mag. It is simply all about ethics and knowing your ability and equipment, either with a bow or with a gun.

Another thing I will say is if an animal is shot through the gut, especially with a bow, then don't leave the damn deer out there all night to suffer, die, and go to waste. Call a deer dog guy and get that deer found. Good deer dogs will find EVERY deer shot through guts EVERY time. Once they have that 'gut smell' in their nose they are not losing that scent!

There are plenty of good guys available with great dogs that charge reasonable fees to find the animals, especially in S Texas such as Roy Hindes, Robbie Hurt, Kevin Dubose, and several others.

Seems every year on opening morning, I always hear that hunter in the distance that rips off 5 rounds in 10-20 seconds....clearly he's "practiced and ethical".....

Can't tell you how many deer I've seen while hunting with broken front or hind legs, giant holes in their guts and yes, arrows/bolts sticking out of their buts.

The inability to accurately shoot your weapon is not just a "bow hunter" thing...

I do the same may have gotten it from one of your recommendations. I dont sit at home and pour shot after shot after shot as i dont think it helps. I try to focus on everything im doing and make especially the first shot be dead on, if it isnt ill shoot enough to figure out what i did wrong and quit for the day.

I picked up a crossbow this year, nothing like a verticle bow. had it sighted in with less than 5 arrows on a newly mounted scope. Passed it around and myself my wife my mom and dad all stuck one in the bullseye at 35 yards first shot.

This. Some of the places I bow hunted back in Arkansas, you were in a race with the coyotes. If you didn’t find your deer within 30 minutes to an hour, the back end would be gone. Saw it on several occasions (fortunately none were mine).

I don’t believe any group of hunters can claim the moral high ground. There are bad apples in every bunch. I’ve seen groups of rifle hunters running dogs (when it was legal) empty 4-5 semi autos at running deer. One guy I knew would brag about hitting deer with the last shot of his thirty round mag. He didn’t care where he hit it, just wanted to slow it down for another shot. Wasn’t illegal, so what do you do?? BTW, that was the last conversation I had with the thirty-round guy. I cut all ties with him after that.

If the first shot isn’t on the money then every shot after that is a waste.

Volume shooting helps condition your “memory” to be instinctive when the moment of truth comes.

It’s more for form and strength conditioning rather than accuracy.

A week prior to season I just walk out and shoot a single arrow. Do this several times a day

I agree with you 100%

Everyone makes a bad shot now and then. Dad once told me of an Old Feller that Gut shot deer; said you can get closer and shoot them where you want afterwards. All in all, if you made a bad shot...don't try and make it better than it was. I have passed up several Larger bucks because they didn't present a ethical shot.

So he was accurate enough to hit the guts but not accurate enough to hit the heart/lungs.....


Everyone makes bad shots. I’ve made them. I agree on a lot of shows they make them more often than people would like and then try and pass it off like it was a good hit.

The only shows I watch, if they make a bad shot, they say they made a bad shot.

If your shooting that day is poor or your form is poor then IMO it is a waste of time to condition your shooting habits from that day IMO. Volume shooting with poor form can create poor memory IMO. I would rather quit for that day before I wear myself out shooting to much. In late spring till mid summer I shoot one to two time per week. When I do shoot I take 3 shots everyday at 20 yards. I do that from turkey season till about July 1st and then start to shoot daily. Then I start to move out to 30 and 40 yards. Still only shoot 3 shots at each range. If my shooting is not what I like at 20 yards, I generally stop that day and wait till the next day. I will say that 90% of the time my first shot 20 yards is where I was aiming or dang close to it so that is why I limit to 3 great shots per distance that day. If my shooting form is a bit different I can tell immediately on my shot or shot group. Like you I am about form and repetition on my shots. If it is bad that day then I don't want try to shoot myself back to the correct way. I just stop and then start over the next day. I am not the best shot anymore and pick my shot ranges based off of that. When hunting I try to be under 20 yards on my shots and learned to read the animals posture as to how/where to aim. That is what has worked for me and it still does. Others have different routines and are much better at archery than I am also. But I stick with what works for me and gives me the most confidence.

Saw a similar shot on a black faced impala. Bow hunter shot him almost walking straight away. I believe it was Tom Miranda in Namibia, but that could be incorrect. They recovered the animal the same day only a short time later; however, I would not shoot an animal in the a$$.

ha ... I had a monster (well, for Llano county circa late '70s, I was in my teens) 10 point that a number of us had seen but could never get a clean shot at him. He even showed up in camp one day to drink out of the water trough next to our school bus converted to RV and it was a mad scramble by 3 grown men and me to grab a gun and get out the door first (he ran off BTW). One day my dad and I were driving back to our stands and we see him and another smaller mature 8 point running a doe ... it was the doe, the 10 point and the 8 point in that order. I stepped out of the truck, knowing where they would pop out into a clearing, leveled off my gun, the doe pops out hauling it, rifle off safety since I knew I would only have a split second to shoot, I see antlers pop out thru the scope and the only shot I had was the white flag running straight away, BLAM, and he rolled, then the 10 point popped out continuing after the doe ... Dang it, I shot the 8 point. My dad laughed at me since that was my last buck tag. Upon inspection, the bullet hit just above the bung hole, passed all the way thru above the guts and demolished the liver, lungs and heart, lodging in front of the shoulder between meat and skin. I just knew I was fixing to have a mess to field dress, but nope, absolutely nothing busted and no wasted meat. My dad told me I was the luckiest hunter he ever saw with that shot. BTW, no one ever killed that big 10 point while we were on that lease, nor the surrounding leases that we know of.

That same lease we had a new guy (friend of one of the other lease member) that was fresh out of the Army, back from Vietnam, shooting a mini 14 ranch rifle with scope. There is not telling how many deer that guy shot in the guts. We got to joking with him and nicknamed him Ole Gutshot, he didn't care much for it but we said prove us wrong and we will drop it. The next 3 years he kept his handle ...

but I agree, now that I am older and hopefully wiser, you only take a clean ethical shot or don't squeeze the trigger (except hogs).

Pmk,

What you just described is commonly known as a “Texas heart shot” and isn’t really an unethical shot. As you probably discovered it resulted in a very dead deer.

You put a bullet or arrow up the poop chute it will (in most cases ) reach lungs/heart and the animal will die. With a rifle the base of the tail shot is also very effective in anchoring the animal but normally will require a finishing shot as it only breaks the back.

The ol Texas heart shot is great on hogs

Rifle hunting on a deer, it’s not ethical

Bow hunting a deer, is. It only unethical, it should be criminal

Anyone shooting a deer in the [censored] on my place will get run off that day.

Why is it ok on a Hog but not a deer? I don’t see how it can be ethical on one animal but not another?


An up the butt shot isn’t ideal but it’s a legitimate kill shot for those that know anatomy and have pinpoint bullet placement.

I personally would not take that shot with an arrow.


Curious as to how it’s an unethical shot? It’s really no different from taking a shot at a deer facing you, it’s just flipped around.




Before anyone jumps on me, I’m not advocating shooting deer up the butt or at the base of the tail. I’m just stating that it works in knocking them down

Darn sure have taken TX heart shots on mongo Nilgai running directly away. Both were quickly dispatched and are outstanding mounts.

if you cant, wont or dont recover your animal within an hr you didnt kill it, you wounded it.
and im being generous with the hr, gun or bow, a well placed shot the animal will expire within minutes

Well not exactly. Quite often with a marginal shot you killed it but it:
A) went a long way before dying.
B) did not die immediately.
C) left very little or no blood
D) your tracking skills were not up to finding it

I have always loved archery for the challenge and the extended seasons. I m short in stature with only a 26.5 in draw length. I started archery at 15 with a bear 50 # Kodiak Hunter recurve. After wounding several deer do to poor penetration and placement I quit archery at 17. At 21 the compound bow arrived and this advancement gave me full power and improved accuracy with my limited draw length. I never looked back and never lost another deer. I limited my shots to 20 yards max and never went into the woods unless all my arrows at 20 yds fit in a 2" bull. I agree that not enough emphasis is put on shot placement and making sure nothing impacts kill zone access. Unfortunately my age has impacted my consistency so I am now a cross bow enthusiast. Wounding an animal is a terrible consequence of poor skills and or bad judgement and should be voided at all cost,

We outfits and in general our archery hunters are better shots and practice more than the rifle hunters. After they arrive we take them out to shoot and the results would surprise you. Unfortunately every now and then we lose an animal with both method but not very often. Maybe it's because they have more expense in the trip that they put more effort into it but our hunters are usually pretty accurate.

TV hunting shows are hit and miss with many questionable shots and hits for sure. I don't watch many but the ones that are bad are usually consistently bad.

Maybe Oswald made the shot.