High Fences Ad Nauseam

im gonna try to stay away from this one but I wish Fouzman would clarify more specifically what you want before this shoots off in every direction.
Do you want to know what TPWD likely WOULD do?
Do you want to know what we think TPWD SHOULD do?
Also, I know its hypothetical but its unrealistic to think they could keep a property owner from putting up a fence.
The more realistic possibility would be to outlaw hunting within a certain size enclosure.
Notice im not taking a stand on this but just trying to streamline the question a little.

I'd say to hell with TPWD and a man can build a fence as high as he damn well pleased on his own property.

Can we add a twist? If the deer are the property of the state and you elect to erect a high fence:

A) The state does a survey of deer populations within the confinements of the fence and the owner has to reimburse the state for the deer that are no longer considered "free range" / property of Texas.

B) The state removes "their" deer at the owners expense and the owner can then purchase the deer of their choice from a certified breeder.

Either election would mean that the state of Texas no longer has any say on harvest restrictions of said property, specific to WTD.

I'd say to hell with TPWD and a man can build a fence as high as he damn well pleased on his own property.

I absolutely concur. Period. End of story.

Sad that there are those out there that feel that they have some sort of right to tell others what they can and cannot do on their land.

Yup...end of discussion....

It will never happen. And way after i am ashes if it does I feel sorry for all those that died protecting us from this kind of government then their deaths were for nothing.

Bag limits, seasons, no night hunting for deer, etc., etc., etc.

Breathless hyperbole aside, there are lots of restrictions on what you can do on your land just related to hunting. There are HF bans in many states out west and down south that are not exactly anti-property rights states. They just realize that the neighbors and others who pay for statewide game management through their tax and license $$$ have rights too.

None of that even counts property taxes, zoning in many cases, and all kinds of other restrictions non-hunting related related to property.

But it’s too late for Texas to change it. Too much land under HF at this point.

New thread, same ol HF haters

NP, bless your heart but you sound like a broke record. For years now. I hope you realize how little anyone else cares about your opinion. Keep explaining away, nobody cares.

[insert old man yelling at clouds meme]

Lot of back roads in Texas that when I'm driving at night I am glad they are majority high fenced, at least near the highway, that keeps the deer off of the highway. Ask anyone who has hit an elk on 90, west of Sanderson, if they wish the Longfellow ranch would be high fenced.

I also wonder how many on here would turn down a free hunt on a HF ranch that needed to cull 150-180 (or whatever number) size bucks.

There’s 3 types of HF haters

1). Those that are jealous.

2). Those that hunt small acreage & depend on the deer that stay on their neighbors place (98% of the time) to cross the low fence onto their piddlin place. Most of these pricks are fenceline hunters.

3). Crusty old curmudgeons who recall the glory days of their youth, when they could hunt a lot of property, before all these Dallas people showed up wantin to hunt. Hey you kids get off my lawn!

Ok, let's say TPWD, based on input from all stakeholders, decides no more high fences may be constructed on acreage less than _______ acres.

Assume everyone with fences previous to the new guidelines will be grandfathered.

What's the number?

-0-?

There’s 3 types of HF haters

1). Those that are jealous.

2). Those that hunt small acreage & depend on the deer that stay on their neighbors place (98% of the time) to cross the low fence onto their piddlin place. Most of these pricks are fenceline hunters.

3). Crusty old curmudgeons who recall the glory days of their youth, when they could hunt a lot of property, before all these Dallas people showed up wantin to hunt. Hey you kids get off my lawn!

Can we add a twist? If the deer are the property of the state and you elect to erect a high fence:

A) The state does a survey of deer populations within the confinements of the fence and the owner has to reimburse the state for the deer that are no longer considered "free range" / property of Texas.

B) The state removes "their" deer at the owners expense and the owner can then purchase the deer of their choice from a certified breeder.

Either election would mean that the state of Texas no longer has any say on harvest restrictions of said property, specific to WTD.

And it seems like there is only one type of high fence "hunter". Lives in a subdivision, has huge ego, has spent as much time in the woods as my 12 yo nephew.

And it seems like there is only one type of high fence "hunter". Lives in a subdivision, has huge ego, has spent as much time in the woods as my 12 yo nephew.

And it seems like there is only one type of high fence "hunter". Lives in a subdivision, has huge ego, has spent as much time in the woods as my 12 yo nephew.

for all of the "the state can't tell me what I can and can't build around my own private property", the state already regulates you more than you realize. why is it that they can tell you when you can shoot deer, with what kind of weapon, what sex they can be, and of those with antlers specifications on them? step back, put your own personal interest and thoughts on the HF debate aside and think about it....keep in mind, this is your own private property that you paid for and pay taxes on. there are also licensing fees for you to pay in order to have a booklet full of restrictions to follow on your own property.

And hopefully the majority of people do actually realize that the entire state of Texas private land is not geared toward raising Whitetail Deer for their hunting pleasure. Or after reading a lot of post maybe they don't know this.

for all of the "the state can't tell me what I can and can't build around my own private property", the state already regulates you more than you realize. why is it that they can tell you when you can shoot deer, with what kind of weapon, what sex they can be, and of those with antlers specifications on them? step back, put your own personal interest and thoughts on the HF debate aside and think about it....keep in mind, this is your own private property that you paid for and pay taxes on. there are also licensing fees for you to pay in order to have a booklet full of restrictions to follow on your own property.

Access to water has been my concern for me. I have always wondered what other game animals are affected besides deer when water sources are fenced with a high fence and no longer available to free range animals. I bring this up because I know of a specific fence erected along one side of a 16,000 acre ranch to purposely cut water sources off to a "Bad" neighbor's deer herd.

Access to water has been my concern for me. I have always wondered what other game animals are affected besides deer when water sources are fenced with a high fence and no longer available to free range animals. I bring this up because I know of a specific fence erected along one side of a 16,000 acre ranch to purposely cut water sources off to a "Bad" neighbor's deer herd.

I don’t think I have ever been on a ranch of any size that didnt have a sustain water system(outside of extreme drought) in place including far west Texas. Cattle is still king in Texas. Not saying there isn’t just not the norm.

No, but a helluva lot of it is - more HF than anywhere on earth outside South Africa.

Access to water has been my concern for me. I have always wondered what other game animals are affected besides deer when water sources are fenced with a high fence and no longer available to free range animals. I bring this up because I know of a specific fence erected along one side of a 16,000 acre ranch to purposely cut water sources off to a "Bad" neighbor's deer herd.

And why do you think South Africa has so much? Maybe it is the same reason Texas does.

I'm in the FU camp, I do what I want with my own land, but for argument sake...

1000 acres min.....ecologically speaking, less than that it doesn't make much sense

So even though I have less than 1000 acres and need a HF to raise Ibex it doesn't make much sense. Interesting.

There’s 3 types of HF haters

1). Those that are jealous.

2). Those that hunt small acreage & depend on the deer that stay on their neighbors place (98% of the time) to cross the low fence onto their piddlin place. Most of these pricks are fenceline hunters.

3). Crusty old curmudgeons who recall the glory days of their youth, when they could hunt a lot of property, before all these Dallas people showed up wantin to hunt. Hey you kids get off my lawn!

That shows exactly how much you know.

Let the hate flow.

Replying to yourself?

Majority of those who disagree with HF have nothing to do with the 3 reasons you posted. Generally the complaint is about fair-chase, and the deer having a chance to escape.

Escape? Yes most hunters drive around on a 4 wheeler chasing them until you run them to the neighbors, oh wait it’s got a fence. They run to a fence and stop and put their hands up and yell don’t shoot.

Escape what? Most hunting scenario/set ups equal less then a half to an acreage of total hunting area. So you are saying a 1000acre HF proper confines the deer from escaping your 1 acre feeder set up. Gotcha

If escape you mean a fence around a 1 acre pen then yes you are correct.



Fair chase with a truck, custom rifle, corn, no native food plots, optics etc... lol.

Fair chase is an idiotic methodology that literally defies the use of any modern tool or tool use. Nothing fair chase about efficiencies

Fair chase is the new “trophy hunting” anti rhetoric .... it’s a noose for hunters

Escape? Yes most hunters drive around on a 4 wheeler chasing them until you run them to the neighbors, oh wait it’s got a fence. They run to a fence and stop and put their hands up and yell don’t shoot.

Escape what? Most hunting scenario/set ups equal less then a half to an acreage of total hunting area. So you are saying a 1000acre HF proper confines the deer from escaping your 1 acre feeder set up. Gotcha

If escape you mean a fence around a 1 acre pen then yes you are correct.



Fair chase with a truck, custom rifle, corn, no native food plots, optics etc... lol.

Fair chase is an idiotic methodology that literally defies the use of any modern tool or tool use. Nothing fair chase about efficiencies

Fair chase is the new “trophy hunting” anti rhetoric .... it’s a noose for hunters

Boom....

You know what escape means, you're not stupid. And you know the definition of fair chase. Means and methods and habitat improvement have nothing to do with confining an animal....you should know that as well.

Your explanation is the biggest reason people don't like HF. It's because they just won't admit it restricts deer movement, prevents them from escaping, and inhibits fair chase. They act like it's the same when it's clearly not to anyone with half a brain.

HF hunters biggest enemy with other hunters is themselves.

I don't care if people do it. It's just not how I prefer to hunt and it has nothing to do with the 3 reasons maximus posted....like the majority of people.

Boom what? His entire post was non-sensical and silly.

Chasing deer on 4 wheelers, hands up don't shoot, hunting areas are 1/2 to 1 acre in size, and 1 acre pens? And you "Boom" it?? Lolololol.

You’re part of the problem Doc.... you throw out insults to others that disagree with your opinion of fair chase.....

You’re part of the problem Doc.... you throw out insults to others that disagree with your opinion of fair chase.....

Ya because you missed the entire point. Tell me what escape means????

I never said it didn’t deter dispersal that’s the management point of it. Deterring dispersal is not preventing escape

If you can truly hunt fence line to fence line LF or HF you need to pick a safer spot to hunt.


Again tell me how a HF prevents a deer from escaping you....

Boom what? His entire post was non-sensical and silly.

Chasing deer on 4 wheelers, hands up don't shoot, hunting areas are 1/2 to 1 acre in size, and 1 acre pens? And you "Boom" it?? Lolololol.

it’s point less, They are only here to insult and boost not to share, same methodology as always.

Escape means what it means.....here's the definition for you:

Definition: es·cape

verb: escape; 3rd person present: escapes; past tense: escaped; past participle: escaped; gerund or present participle: escaping

1. break free from confinement or control.



So to answer your question...a HF prevents a deer from escaping confinement and control. That's how it prevents it. This is really elementary stuff guys....

Where was the insult in my post?

And the HF proponents do the same thing....look at Maximus post. I don't see PP saying anything to him about his "insults" or anyone else in this thread. HF hunters are like democrats....they want everyone to be allowed to have their own opinion (or hunting style), except when you disagree with theirs.

I already said I don't care if you want to hunt that way. No sweat off my back. Go buy a deer and put it in your backyard and kill it if you want to. But posts like Bobo's are exactly why people don't like it. LIke I said, HF hunters are their own worst enemy amongst other hunters because of the perception they create for themselves.

The insult was the TRUTH.....It hurts them to hear it.

Doc,

Your not stupid, arrogant yes but not stupid. At least own the fact that your veiled insults of having half a brain if I disagree with you, I could have some respect for you.

I'll take that.

I should have realized there are hunters on THF with half a brain. I apologize if that post insulted you.

So you think regardless a deer is more confined then a person actively hunting? You must hunt differently then anyone in Texas or any where for that matter.

So funny and clever.....is this good for your business?

You didn't like the definition of escape did you? Lol. So now we are changing it to a person actively hunting? Geez....it's like hitting a constantly moving target.

HF confinement has nothing to do with how far someone can see while hunting or how much land they can cover. If that were the case no one would build them, Bobo. It has to do with artificially restricting movement of wildlife and usually management. You also already know that. It's the entire reason for existence of HF hunting operations...control and confinement.

Just admit it confines the deer and prevents them from escaping. You'll save us about 3 pages on this thread.

1 acre or 10,000 acres.....a pen is a pen.

It is kind of like the guy who asked a woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars....she says yes. Then he asks if she would for $100....she says no what kind of woman do you thin I am. He replied....we've already established what kind of woman you are....now we are just negotiating the price.

Same with HF......would you shoot pets(I mean deer) in 10,000 acre pen....reply...SURE. Would you shoot a pet in a 1 acre pen....NO....what kind of hunter do you think I am!?!?! Well....we have already established you are not hunting....now we just need to find a pen size to mean your warped sense of "hunting".

1 acre or 10,000 acres.....a pen is a pen.

It is kind of like the guy who asked a woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars....she says yes. Then he asks if she would for $100....she says no what kind of woman do you thin I am. He replied....we've already established what kind of woman you are....now we are just negotiating the price.

Same with HF......would you shoot pets(I mean deer) in 10,000 acre pen....reply...SURE. Would you shoot a pet in a 1 acre pen....NO....what kind of hunter do you think I am!?!?! Well....we have already established you are not hunting....now we just need to find a pen size to mean your warped sense of "hunting".

No Doc you're wrong and you show that intelligence is not guaranteed when booking an appointment with a dentist.

Example: There are numerous high fenced WMAs managed and controlled by TPW. The purpose of the fence is to keep other deer out, not in........do your homework before you flap your gums...

I like the gums pun.

Thanks for the insult on my intelligence.

HF hunters are like democrats....they want everyone to be allowed to have their own opinion (or hunting style), except when you disagree with theirs.

Might as well have some fun....lol

Sir, I must remonstrate.

We can disagree, but I won’t be called a Democrat.

If anyone here is acting like a Democrat, it is you. Your the one wanting to tell other people what they can do.

I don’t give a shat what your ignorant opinion is on the HF matter. I hope that all the HF hunters who enjoy their hunting truly piss you off.

If it’s all the same, they wouldn’t be built. They cost $$$, you know. People don’t spend $$$ for the fun of it.

I get the desire to justify them as cool, fine, and all the same by those who favor them, but who’s kidding who?

If it’s all the same, they wouldn’t be built. They cost $$$, you know. People don’t spend $$$ for the fun of it.

I get the desire to justify them as cool, fine, and all the same by those who favor them, but when we get to all these silly arguments like they don’t prevent escape and food confines deer just like HF, who’s kidding who?

I specifically said I don't care if people want to hunt HF. Like I said, buy a deer and put it in your backyard and kill it.

It's not going to piss me off because I really don't care what you do or what anyone else does. The only ignorant post I read was yours about the 3 types of HF haters which specifically ignores the most common type of person who opposes HF and that is those who are opposed to artificial confinement.

Sorry for the democrat comment, that was truly a terrible insult.

I like the idea that if your fence restricts game movement you should be required to compensate the state of Texas for every animal you fence in. Just the same way a poacher should be fined. If you’re willing to pay that price then you are allowed your high fence. The deer inside your fence are then considered livestock, and not under TPWD. Free range whitetail deer are the property of the people in the state of Texas not the Kings deer.

I appreciate your apology for the Democrat comment.

My “backyard” is 1,500 acres. Wanna place a bet on if you can find a specific buck in there? I’ll give you all season. If you find the buck & get him he’s free. If (when) you don’t, you can then shut your pie hole. Deal?

Most I know would love to stroke that check, I'm sure none would have a problem with that since seasons and harvest restriction laws would go out the window and TAHC would be solely in charge of disease regulation. They would have full discretion to manage their habitat and flora freely any way they choose.

One and done deal for a lot of farmers too. They can HF and shot the jumpers year round.

If I was retired and had the time I would put some serious money on that bet and take you up on it. Unfortunately I still work. Give me another 5-10 years and we will talk, I would love to give it a shot.

If I was retired and had the time I would put some serious money on that bet and take you up on it. Unfortunately I still work. Give me another 5-10 years and we will talk, I would love to give it a shot.

There would be riots and/or fences being torn down all over if that were the law. And about 5% of the fences put up (only by the super-rich guys) if it had been the law 40 years ago. BTW, seasons and harvest restrictions are basically out the window now for those so inclined with MLDP.

I really don't have a dog in this fight but here goes. Someone earlier mentioned a woman and the cost for sex. Then they mentioned the size of the so called HF. Did not matter if 1 acre or 1000 all the same. I have been around longer than probably at least 90 percent of those that think they know everything. As most know I have a HF to raise Nubian Ibex. I still don't know from the experts on here where a LF ends and a HF begins. I hear a HF confines an animal and can't escape. I also own a LF place and next to me is a LF where I used to run cattle. Ibex became more profitable so I gave my son the lease. Feeding deer be it LF or HFis the same. Deer are like people on welfare or like most of you waiting on your paycheck. You know when it is going to arrive. You are going to be waiting for it to be handed to you or you are going to check you account to make sure it did. I can trip the timer at the LF place and tell you how many deer are going to come. I see the same deer on the neighbors place every morning when I go by it to feed my Ibex. LF deer may not be confined by a fence but they are by feed. So piss and moan about HF all you want. You are just kidding yourself if you are feeding deer you are not confining them.

That’s exactly what I thought.

I guess shooting a deer in someone’s “backyard” is so tough that you have to be retired to have enough time. That certainly flies in the face of your ignorant comments about “pens” & “backyards”. If it was easy as you say, you should be able to get that deer in 1 day.

Where I come from, you either put some $ where your mouth is or you STFU. Now you know which you need to do.

Reason why Amos, Rancher and MF make that bet, be a fun 120 plus days of hunting though. Cool season of wildlife interaction and photography though. Might get lucky who knows, just stacked deck against you.

That’s exactly what I thought.

I guess shooting a deer in someone’s “backyard” is so tough that you have to be retired to have enough time. That certainly flies in the face of your ignorant comments about “pens” & “backyards”. If it was easy as you say, you should be able to get that deer in 1 day.

Where I come from, you either put some $ where your mouth is or you STFU. Now you know which you need to do.

Everyone of those guys have deer that show up via helo survey or one off camera photo, that they hunt daily via self or with customers and it dies of old age some where. It is cool to know that some deer just don’t like corn and protein and some just wont move much. I actually wish you would you would quickly understand what I mean by constraints. It would change you opinion for sure, even if you killed him. Maybe not to a full blown level of acceptance but would be humbling

PS: I’m going to beat you to retirement I’m out in four, better get to drilling

I'm gonna start doing root canals on every tooth so I can catch you.

If we didn't have 4 little kids I'd probably be done already, Lol.

LOLOLOLOOLOLLOL. No. Get off the sauce.

You need a therapist NP, they could help you separate fantasy from reality.....

You need a therapist NP, they could help you separate fantasy from reality.....

.. just don't pick on us neighborhood livin', cul-de-sac occupying, Dallas folks who descend on the countryside and bring a little sunshine and excitement to your lives!

Sorry Doc, thanks for clearing that up. It’s NP who is spouting the nonsense.

Theoretically, I think the proverbial 1 acre HF pen is a pen. I have not ever seen anyone argue otherwise. The proverbial 10,000 acre HF place is not. The HF haters will never admit that, & they won’t put their $ where their mouth is & bet on a hunt. It’s the fact that the Haters want to force their beliefs on everyone else & restrict private property owners rights.

Whoa there. You live in a cul-de-sac?

I do and get this.... I also back up to the greenbelt!

Hell..... I see the same deer in the low fence area almost everyday at the same feeders when I'm hunting. I don't hardly ever see the same deer at the same feeder in the high fence area.

I see high fence as an opportunity for a landowner to protect the deer from bubba next door shooting him before he's mature. If it wasn't for landowners day hunting 150 acres with three blinds on the fence line shared with his neighbor, and running 30 hunters a year through those 3 stands, that other neighbor probably wouldn't spend the $250K for the high fence in order for the deer to reach 4 or 5 years old.

Day hunters have a right to feel their freezers with anything that's legal,, (we all know they never shoot anything that's almost legal....right?). And the 150 acre landowner has a right to day hunt the [censored] out of his place, but for someone to frown upon the landowners that exercise their right to high fence their own places is rediculous.

If all hunters were ethical and shared a code of honor to only harvest mature deer there wouldn't be a problem. But I'd bet I could put photos of 10 bucks up on this forum and a huge number of "experienced" hunters would say they would shoot the deer if it came in front of them during season, even though they aren't mature deer, but they are all "legal".

To each their own. Hunt the way you want, manage deer the way you want on your place, and we will do the same on ours.....

Love the thoughtful responses. And in a few posts you’ll be whining about how those who don’t like HFs are such meanies who just insult people.

Sitting in a box some on elevated stands in a comfy chair with a steady rifle rest, watching a timed corn feeder or planted food plot used to draw deer in, using trail cameras to pattern & select targets to put on your 'hit' list, quality optics both binoculars & scoped rifles.

And the height of the fence determines 'fair chase' or not... or somehow changes the definition of 'hunting / hunter'.

100,000 acre minimum

HF is BS

This. Especially the second line.

If I owned a piece of property and felt like I wanted to put an 8' fence around it because my neighbors were a bunch of crack-heads or I just wanted to keep trespassers off my land, it shouldn't make a difference if it was 1 acre or 1,000,000 acres.

Has anyone EVER changed their mind regarding their stance on HF/LF because of what they read on a THF thread? What a beating...but it is fun reading.

Hell..... I see the same deer in the low fence area almost everyday at the same feeders when I'm hunting. I don't hardly ever see the same deer at the same feeder in the high fence area.

I see high fence as an opportunity for a landowner to protect the deer from bubba next door shooting him before he's mature. If it wasn't for landowners day hunting 150 acres with three blinds on the fence line shared with his neighbor, and running 30 hunters a year through those 3 stands, that other neighbor probably wouldn't spend the $250K for the high fence in order for the deer to reach 4 or 5 years old.

Day hunters have a right to feel their freezers with anything that's legal,, (we all know they never shoot anything that's almost legal....right?). And the 150 acre landowner has a right to day hunt the [censored] out of his place, but for someone to frown upon the landowners that exercise their right to high fence their own places is rediculous.

If all hunters were ethical and shared a code of honor to only harvest mature deer there wouldn't be a problem. But I'd bet I could put photos of 10 bucks up on this forum and a huge number of "experienced" hunters would say they would shoot the deer if it came in front of them during season, even though they aren't mature deer, but they are all "legal".

To each their own. Hunt the way you want, manage deer the way you want on your place, and we will do the same on ours.....

I like how you decry one set of hunters because they want to shoot the S*&^ out of their property legally, and then you justifiy it by setting a "code of honor" and calling it ethical. Pot meet kettle...

Add in there the insulting names you give to meat hunters and the "poorer" land owners that cant afford to HF and then lump all small land owners as fence shooters.

Come on man, the hubris is thick, try laying off the juice for a bit and come back to reality.

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I know some folks get sensitive when a person voices their opinion that might hit a nerve to close to home. I didn't say you were "Bubba" or that you put your blinds on the fence line, just that it happens. I didn't say you over hunted your day lease or that you were unethical, but it happens.... For a man to spend $250K on a fence there has to be a reason. You may or may not be part of the reason, but since I don't know you and you don't know me. Just stating my opinion as I've seen it, maybe it's only around our property that this happens, but damn the luck it seems every low fence lease I've ever been on....it seems the neighbors on one side are decent and management minded, the other side Is like bag-em all we will eat well....

What a well thought out and damning argument. Well done.

You scoff, and I understand that.
But for those of us who prefer not to shoot enclosed animals, there is no need for much analysis or discussion. It’s simple. We don’t want to shoot enclosed animals. They are captive. Trapped by an unnatural barrier to their movements. It’s not hunting to us. Not much more really need be said about it because 8 year old can understand it.

Only who seek to justify shooting enclosed animals as normal hunting have to twist themselves into pretzels making crazy arguments like the HF makes no difference, baffle with BS gobbledygook arguments that can’t be followed and then insult the intelligence of those who don’t follow them, whine about insults and trolling as they insult and troll, pile irrelevance upon irrelevance, engage in personal attacks to avoid responding to points made, and constantly deflect/change the subject. In short, many just simply see red because others don’t agree with them on the subject.

Why? Because for many the mirror of shooting enclosed animals being held up is simply not a comfortable experience. Plus, anyone younger than 40 or so raised here in TX almost certainly has come to simply accept HFs as the way things are done.

But the game farms are starting to bleed financially and the HF places are fast losing their allure in the market. Many have simply had enough - both those who have and haven’t participated.

I get the argument that people should be allowed to do what they want on their land - even including shooting livestock or fish in a barrel should they so desire. It’s by far the best argument on that side of the table - only countered by the potential harm to hunting as a whole from an ethics standpoint. This leads simply to folks agreeing to disagree.

All the other crazy arguments and justifications seeking to define the HFs as making no difference, the deflection, anger, etc. are Freudian in nature because those making them know deep down their absurdity - but simply refuse to accept reality because to do so would lessen or demean an endeavor many call hunting. This many are unwilling to do, for obvious reasons.

Absolute GOSPEL OF DELUSION!!!!

You didn't hurt my feelings at all, don't know you so it wasn't personal at all. Just calling out your "HF hunter privilege" and letting you know you need to "check your privilege".

Sometimes the reason a person wants to spend 250K on a fence is so they can control everything inside of it. Sometimes someone spends 250K just because they have it and need something to get a tax write off with. I refuse to believe that every HF operation was put in place because of fence hunters and neighbors that shot out their day leases. Simply not true. Many folks that have the means, also have the control gene. The HF allows them to control things as much as humanly possible and that is the reason, probably more often than not, for the HF proliferation going on. In many cases the control is intended well, i.e. habitat management, game management, food source management, harvest management, etc. But in some instances the control factor has no good intention and is all about harvesting a huge deer they have on a small HF place and brought in to specifically shoot for them selves or a client.

The reality is LF hunting is just a game of "you get what you get and don't throw a fit if the neighbors, or road traffic , or the rut or whatever take out a good deer". HF hunting is a game of "we know what we got, so lets find it". Not saying HF hunting is easier, no way, but you at least know if you see an animal, it SHOULD still be there somewhere in the HF (dead or alive) the next time you are there.

You scoff, and I understand that.
But for those of us who prefer not to shoot enclosed animals, there is no need for much analysis or discussion. It’s simple. We don’t want to shoot enclosed animals. They are captive. Trapped by an unnatural barrier to their movements. It’s not hunting to us. Not much more really need be said about it because an 8 year old can understand it.

Only who seek to justify shooting enclosed animals as normal hunting have to twist themselves into pretzels making crazy arguments like the HF makes no difference, baffle with BS gobbledygook arguments that can’t be followed and then insult the intelligence of those who don’t follow them, whine about insults and trolling as they insult and troll, pile irrelevance upon irrelevance, engage in personal attacks to avoid responding to points made, and constantly deflect/change the subject. In short, many just simply see red because others don’t agree with them on the subject.

Why? Because for many the mirror of shooting enclosed animals being held up is not a comfortable experience. Plus, anyone younger than 40 or so raised here in TX almost certainly has come to simply accept HFs as the way things are done.

But the game farms are starting to bleed financially and the HF places are fast losing their allure in the market. Many have had enough - both those who have and haven’t participated.

I get the argument that people should be allowed to do what they want on their land - even including shooting livestock or fish in a barrel should they so desire. It’s by far the best argument on that side of the table - only countered by the potential harm to hunting as a whole from an ethics standpoint. This leads to folks simply
agreeing to disagree.

All the other crazy arguments and justifications seeking to define the HFs as making no difference, the deflection, anger, etc. are Freudian in nature because those making them know deep down their absurdity - but simply refuse to accept reality because to do so would lessen or demean an endeavor many call hunting. This many are unwilling to do, for obvious reasons.

I'd say to hell with TPWD and a man can build a fence as high as he damn well pleased on his own property.

You are shooting deer in a enclosure. Simple as that.

I know it’s hard for some of you to admit that but it’s 100% fact.

You are shooting deer in a enclosure. Simple as that.

I haven't seen one post in this thread that denies this.......it's the whole point of putting the fence up....and I haven't noticed anyone having a hard time owning up to hunting a HF. As matter of fact there is a survey being done currently that shows over 50% of our members have hunted a HF. They are not having a hard time with owning that fact, nor should they IMO. Why? Because it's LEGAL.

So far this survey shows the non sense being spouted by our resident HF trolls, is just that non sense. They claim most members are against this method of hunting.........the poll shows how full of their opinion is.......they act like children that try to shame others that don't agree with them......and convince themselves their child like rants actually change the facts on the ground........so full of themselves their hypocrisy has a stench you could smell a mile away.

We found another small acreage fenceline hunter, I bet.

I love it when small acreage hunters get fenced out by their large (now HF) neighbors. For some reason, the small places don’t seem to get the deer numbers they once did, when a HF goes up next door.

t’s the same reason hunting shows hide the fence and/or don’t tell you about it.

Read this thread here, genius. Just a random thread here. Make sure & read the part about where the HF is.

https://texashuntingforum.com/forum...e-7-000-acres-around-hebbronville#UNREAD

Yes, everyone of us is dirt poor, toothless, trailer house livin fencline hunters. Never been in a piece of land bigger than 10 acres. Lol

You guys are the ones who are all the same.

So let us know more about your lease, how many acres? Hunters? Harvest numbers.

While you, yourself may not be a toothless, dirt poor fenceline hunter, I do t think you can deny there are plenty of hunters out there harvesting more deer from their acreage that their natural carrying capacity. That’s 1 of the main causes of HF. Something else the HF haters can’t seem to comprehend.

I want nice, big, mature bucks. For that, I’ll have to HF, because I’m surrounded by neighboring podunk places overloaded with hunters who shoot anything that moves. The 5 year old buck that I would want to hunt this year was killed 3 years ago by some [censored] from Dallas who didn’t give a [censored] about deer management. He then put the meat in his freezer, which was later thrown out after it sat in the freezer for years.

Kind of funny, but that thread speaks to exactly what I stated...control. The HF is there to CONTROL what the neighbor can or can not shoot by not allowing deer access to the neighbors place.

There is no need for the genius part, it is below this forum to hurl sarcastic insults and backhanded internet tough man language as I never said anything of the same. Keep it above board and it will go a long way, but the insults make you seem childish.

I don’t need a lease. Just about everyone in my family owns land. My main hunting spot is my grandmas 1200 acre place outside of Dublin.

Feel better now? Or do you need my entire hunting resume?

Forget fences. I hope someone in the family is talking to Grandma about what SHE wants to happen to the 1200 acres after she's gone. Otherwise, it can tear a family apart.

Yes, everyone who doesn’t agree with HF is a troll. You keep telling yourself that.

The poll results do not surprise me at all, knowing the demographic of this forum.

It is hard for some to admit, Ronnie Millsap could see it. It’s the same reason hunting shows hide the fence and/or don’t tell you about it.

Absolutely. I’ve seen it a few times, & wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Any ranch with multiple heirs is only 1 generation away from getting busted up & sold. It’s sickitating.

The problem here is, the HF haters will not admit that a large HF ranch, lets just say >1,000 acres, is not a “pen”.

HF proponents admit that a small, let&#146;s say <10 acres is a &#147;pen&#148;. Nobody denies that.

The denial of reality is all on the HF haters.

Your the 1 talkin about &#147;HF privilege&#148; like your Bernie Sanders. How pedantic of you to lecture someone on &#147;privilege&#148;. Funny how you never admit how much time, work & money go into a HF places.

Nobody that I&#146;ve ever seen denies that a HF is there to control the animals. Your arguing against a straw man. That&#146;s the only debate you can win. Someone having a HF doesn&#146;t dictate what their neighbor can shoot or not shoot (as you claim). They are still welcome to shoot anything on their place. Your fallacy in logic (or lack thereof) is shown with that statement. It shows your outlook as you want to shoot what&#146;s on your neighbors place.

MF,...is yet again another name calling kindergarten tactic.

MF, even you are stretching with this one. Look back in the posts and see what I am referring to and you will see my beef had nothing to do with you until you called me a name and then made my argument that the majority of HF are there because the owner wants to control the deer on their place. I was rebutting someone who said the HF was there for a number of other reasons, but control wasn't one of them and if I remember it was explicitly excluded as not a reason. I wasn't arguing with you until you brought it to me.

As far as privilege, you have no idea what you are talking about and equating me with Bernie is yet again another name calling kindergarten tactic. Stop it. Theres no place for that here. This can be a civil discussion, but you are trying to make it dis-civil. Shame on you man!

I love it when small acreage hunters get fenced out by their large (now HF) neighbors. For some reason, the small places don’t seem to get the deer numbers they once did, when a HF goes up next door.

I'm confused. I know I'm getting older, but what does "MF" stand for again.