Shootin' does....

why don't more folks shoot does in the hill country. So many deer running around and most of what I see at the locker plant are 2.5 - 3.5 y.o. bucks. Relatives hunt their place behind ours and shot a small spike and another young buck over the weekend. Then all we hear is 'we don't see any big deer like we used to'! We've got a screwed up buck, left side is a nice symmetrical 5, the right side has 3, put the main beam goes straight up. We'd like him to make it another year to see if it gets better, but if he goes over a fence he'll be dead.
I've even told the kids to go ahead and shoot what they want as long as it's legal due to my frustrations, but then they turn around and tell me "that'll make us just like the neighbors"
Just a mid-week rant.....

I believe that most hunters and their families only eat 1-2 deer a yr and if they kill a buck or 2 then there’s no need to kill a doe for meat. That’s just my opinion.... I killed 2 bucks, a doe, and a hog last yr and still have a full box of deer meat from the processor that I havnt opened and most of the hog. If I kill a buck this yr there won’t be much need in me killing a doe. I understand the management principle and would love to have a 1-1 or 1-2 buck to doe ratio but I won’t kill if if I can’t eat it. Can’t tell you the last time I bought beef either.

I try to get my limit on does. Im batting about 500 on that endeavor, but most of the folks around me are pretty much there for horns. If I see a nice buck that has at least had a chance to pass his genes on I will take him, but not interested in 2.5YO bucks.

And people wonder why there are more and more HFs.

I passed on a few doe at a friends place this weekend. Ended up shooting a 3 YO 8pt. He was twice as big as the doe and it was a meat hunt, so....

Two smaller doe is better than one decent young 8 point. IMO

I enjoy seeing more bucks than doe at my feeder, but hey that's just me.

We always try to shoot our allotment of does, and then some if we can get the green light from other lease members that don't want theirs. We bring friends or friend's kids, and share the meat with others. We like shooting the deer and folks like getting the meat. We have plenty of deer and I feel like it helps manage the heard to keep the overall numbers in check and help the buck/doe ratio. Our deer are still plentiful and healthy so it seems to be working.

How does shooting or not shooting doe have anything to do with HF’s?

We've killed two deer so far this year (Mills county). Both does. I've passed on a 18" 8 pt that was 3.5-4.5, a bigger 10 that was maybe 4.5 but I didn't get a good age on, several 13-14" deer and one of the smallest-bodied spikes I've ever seen. I will likely shoot 5 does this year unless the big bruiser from next door comes 500 yard east.

#I'mnotpartoftheproblem

Herd control, get ratios correct.

People claim to be meat hunters, but very very few are. They'll pass on a doe again and again to shoot the first buck that shows its face.

Probably 95% of leases, that aren't on mld, would benefit from having it in the lease that you have to shoot a doe or two before you shoot a buck.

Erathkid is a prime example, no offense, and there's still missing info, but why shoot a young 3yo? He was on a meat hunt but passes on does bc it has twice as much meat? Then shoot two does as someone else suggested and let that 3yo go. I give a pass on this scenario if it was a mgmt buck though.

I know a lot of guys that will say that they are letting the doe go until after the rut in hopes that they can get a buck chasing. Where there's doe there will be bucks, I hear all the time. Then they will shoot a buck (and sometimes one that really could go a couple more years) and never shoot a doe.

Me, if I see a doe it goes in the freezer. I won't lie, I like having antlers hanging in the house, but if I get a doe or two a season, I am perfectly happy.

It works out great if you are on a place that will allow guests to come out and shoot a doe. We've done that for the past few years with friends and co-workers and it really helps with the population control. It's also an added bonus to get to see people so excited and amp'ed up when they shoot a doe - possibly even their first deer. Over all a great experience to get to be a part of - something that a lot of folks take for granted.

Some places don't need an abundance of does shot though. From everything we see we have a good balance of both. I haven't seen a single doe stop to eat in 3 weekends so far. Seen about 11 doe total in range and 20 bucks. Some of those ugly bucks need to go. Will take a doe or spike later. Already got my buck and it was mature.

Have you not read the first post? This person seems to have a problem with what his neighbors want to shoot. I had the same problem years ago. I now have a HF and I can decide what needs to be taken and what not. Now I could give a rats rear end what they do. And now I have hunters out that as far as I know are very satisfied on what they take. I see what the quality is on places next to mine that are still LF as I still have a small place there. It is nothing compared to mine and I don't feed protein. So unless you are too dense to comprehend or understand your question then I feel for you.

I tell my kids if it isn't mature or a obvious cull (not a spike or yearling forkhorn) then there is no point in shooting it. Does are a lot easier to come by.


its the old mentality that is still hanging around. I too know very few "meat hunters" that would shoot a doe over a 2 year old 8 point. In most places, you can stand to harvest twice as many does as you do bucks.

ddmm first sentence was regarding why people don' t kill more doe. ETEXAS FIREMAN 1 seems to be making the point of why shoot a doe if you don't need it. No matter if it is HF or LF. don K nothing was said about the quality of deer.
Maybe you should step outside and get some fresh air.

Our place is under 400 acres, and we are in no position to HF. Try and rely on neighbors to help out. I think it's on the eastern side of Mills county they've got a large group of landowners all working together to manage the herd, I think it's called the Simms Creeks WMA. They've done a great job getting various landowners with multiple tracks of land working together. I'm not expecting to get consistent 160 - 180" deer, but get some age, greater than 3.5 yo's. I'll admit, I used to shoot every spike that walked by, but now I try and determine if it's a 2.5 - 3.5 YO that just isn't going to make it.
Good to see the different viewpoints without anyone getting into an all out argument here. I know it's to each his own...most folks pay a good price to hunt.

Yep. My son has 2 does so far this season.

To answer the OP's question:


(I have a very hard time doing it myself. That's why I invite ruthless guests. )

Because city slickers go to the country and shoot a deer with horns and that makes them macho in their minds

Depends on the ranch. Some places dont have enough deer to shoot doe. We haven't shot a doe in 20 years of owning our place. Buck to doe ratio is apprx.2 bucks per doe. We aren't even close to carrying capacity. The ranch I hunted this weekend was sold recently, so our motto was "if its brown its down". I'll gladly shoot doe at my FILs place in Comal county, he has 5 doe per buck. Every place is different.

We have a 1:1 ratio right now on buck and doe. In our case, I want doe to continue procreating, and, by removing them, we won't get more deer. I would also add that i think TPWD has the seasons backasswards. Instead of limiting the doe season, they should limit the buck season. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me on this, but most people would wind up taking more does if they don't see the buck they want. That's my $0.02

My area, doe hunting shuts down on the 25th of November, so you gotta getem fast if you don’t bow hunt. My problem this year is that I haven’t and won’t get much stand time until after Thanksgiving. And my little 500 acre lease is smothered with them. I will take a doe all day.

I own land in San Saba county. Our ratio is close to 1 to 1 with the edge belonging to bucks. This land has been in the family since 1932 and years back the ratio was probably 5 to 1 does.My son sat in the blind last Saturday and had a 10, 2 8's, 2 6's and 3 other bucks out eating corn and oats all at the same time. They all got a pass. All the people around us, and us, sure killed a lot of does over the years, leaving bucks alone, and it has made a big difference. Last year I only shot 2 does. This year I took an 18" 9 point 1 hour into my first hunt. Now I can mess around the campfire with my dutch ovens, hunt varmints with my hi powered pellet gun, make jerky and watch the winter birds at the feeder by the camp. Life is good at our place in the hill country. In general I would say lots of progress has been made in the area over the years. We are low fence and see no need for a high fence. Monster bucks aren't something I need to spend that kind of money on. We enjoy the whole experience of hunting with family more than a singular quest for a huge buck. For what I would pay for a high fence I could go to Alaska and get a moose, a few times.

Saw a bumper sticker yesterday in New Braunfels, it read "you can always tell a GERMAN, you just cant them 'em much"

There is a logic of not shooting does to perpetuate the species engrained in many of them and the rest just like to shoot something with horns is my opinion.

This is a great topic and only underscores the need for hunters to find out what their goals are, what steps need to be taken to achieve those goals, given the harvest regulations for each county. I can't count all the times I've heard people come on our place and say, "y'all need to shoot doe". That seems to be their 'pat' answer to everything without knowing squat about our population dynamics.

I agree it's on a ranch by ranch basis, but I'd be willing to bet someone around your ranch is taking plenty of doe if you're at a 2-1 buck to doe without having shot any doe in 20 years.

I don't know where you place is and ive never hunted the panhandle or more than 2 properties in west texas (kinney county) but I don't think I have ever been on a property that didn't probably need more does shot. Im sure they exist but my bet is they are an extreme minority.

Eastern Erath county. 30 acres per deer. High fenced neighbors have 3 acres per deer. You do the math. When you sit in a stand day after day and don't see doe that's a pretty strong case for not shooting one when you do see one.

Assuming the HF neighbor has heavy supplemental feeding. Is the CC of the land a deer to 30 acres? Or why don't yal have more?

just chiming in... but if anyone needs any doe taken off there place to help with herd management im your guy! Slick heads are the best eating IMO

Shooting does early helps enhance the chance of a trophy buck showing up later. Think about it like this. When you were young if you had all the girls you wanted in your front yard would you still travel from bar to bar looking for one? No you would not. Same principal applies here. If you have a heavy doe population the bucks do not have to travel to find them. Less does = more travel and more competition for said does.
having said all that I am the worst offender. I rarely take does as I am horn hunting and only eat one a year. I usually take a friend during the late season to get my quota of does although that does nothing to help the pre rut doe tally. Our Buck / doe ratio was way out of whack but over the last 3 years we have begun to bring it back in line. I am seeing a much better scenario this year. Many more pre rut rumbles between bucks than I saw last year.

Your first sentence is dead on. More competition that brings in more dominant bucks

Right if you have a heavy doe population the bucks you have stay buy you and the neighbors bucks come to you looking for some. If you shoot the does early your bucks leave and go to your neighbors.

I have friends and hunting partners who love eating venison. I enjoy the smiles on their faces when I give them deer sausage as much as I enjoy taking my legal limit of does. I trust the TPWD will set that limit at what the resource can safely provide. Anything more is just a needless debate over the value of antlers.

Now on the flip side, I can remember when the QDMA crowd first started preaching to hunters that the path to quality bucks was to shoot every doe you see. As a result, you soon found camps that were literally slaughting their doe populations. Little wonder their deer populations took a nose dive as the QDMA leaders quietly slipped into the media shadows.

If everyone in the entire Hill Country took 4 years off from shooting bucks and shot only does, the heard would benefit greatly. But that will never happen. And yes, they shoot the heck out of those 2.5 year old deer and then turn around and tell you that he was a big, old buck. "He must have been 6.5 years old"....blah, blah, blah, as they roll back to the big city in their Bro Truck, pulling their $20,000 UTVs and blaring Jason Aldean and Luke Perry.

Wife and I eat 4 or 5 doe per year. I pass on all bucks....even the older mature bucks with good racks. MLD and we have too many doe so I am happy to help. I also get to see awesome bucks.
To each his own.

And who after paying whatever for a lease is going to shoot only Does for 4 years. And those that would after paying good money for a lease and only shooting Does for 3 years lost the least. The majority of people that lease could give a rats rear end on score, age or antlers. They lease to get away. Away from what depends on the individual. Could be work, wife, kids or who knows what. But as always this only my opinion so take it as that.

In 40 years of hunting I have probably shot 5 does per 1 buck taken. Back when it was by permit only we tagged those doe first before we started hunting bucks. Hill country

I’m always a guest wherever I go and I only shoot Does and Spikes.

It's simple if you shoot a buck you have to shoot two doe before you can kill another buck....

Can't speak for anyone else but I haven't shot a buck in more than 15 years. All in all I have taken 92 deer on license and did some culling when I was stationed in VA and probably took around 200 on culling ops. I have no use for any more antlers so all I take now are does for meat. So if any of you in the Hill Country want someone to take a few does, send me a PM.

Bucks, no matter what the size is, hold no interest for me but I do love me some does in the freezer.

I agree that it depends on the ranch and situation. We are a large LF ranch. IMO killing does is one of the top management tools there is. There is only so much food available for deer. By keeping the numbers in check it is leaving more food for fewer mouths.

Exact same as if you have a pond with too many fish - they become stunted due to lack of available food - so to counter that one should cull some fish out.

We killed over 100 does last year (MLD) and around 70-80 I believe the year before that. We have a 1.5 doe to 1 buck ratio. We give the meat to the game wardens who distribute it to those in need.

Nope. I know all of our neighbors and talk to them frequently, none are shooting doe. Approximately 3000 acres total, probably no more than three deer per year taken. The reason there aren't many doe is because they used to be shot like crazy. When we bought our place it was pretty much shot out. A bunch of cousins owned 100 acres a piece. They all said the same thing, "you need to shoot does". WRONG!

I might add, just across the hwy, my friend and neighbor has 1100 acres on a major tributary of the 'Paluxy' river. He's covered in doe. My guess is they prefer riparian habitat for raising fawns. There's always something green to eat by the waters edge even during a drought.

Place was shot out years ago by people that said, "we need to shoot more doe". We're Still way below carrying capacity. Neighbors do supplemental feeding. There is no noticeable browse line. I had passed on bucks for years on the ranch I shot the 8pt. It sold. Time to kill what the old owner says I can kill. No regrets. It has nothing to do with being macho,, or having to shoot horns.
Beating a dead horse, I know.

Im sorry being shot out 20 years ago IS NOT the reason you have low deer density and a 2:1 buck to doe ratio. Our property was shot to pieces when we got it too. We ran feeders year round for over a year before we saw more than 3 identifiable different deer. In less than 3 years we have over what carrying capacity is suppose to be. There is something else keeping your deer population down and it has nothing to do with being shot out 20 years ago.

If you have young bucks or even older bucks every year, you have does. I see way more bucks than does on my place and still shoot does, even though I see very few and not many fawns. My area of the county should be at a deer to 17 acres, I am more like a deer to 7-8 acres and have been for the last 6 years since I bought this place. Buck to doe ratio back then was 1 buck per 1.88 does. By 2015 it was 1 doe per 1.4 bucks, in 2016 it was 1 doe per 2.05 bucks which I did not think was correct but that is what I saw in my blind counts. Then last year it went back to what I think is correct with a 1.12 does per buck. My problem is I hold bucks year round and they keep the does off the feeders till late season most years. This year I am not seeing many deer at all with all the rain and acorn crop. Corn is growing under feeders that were turned down to 2 seconds twice per day. I still have protein in my feeders that were last filled in late June. I shoot about 25% of the does I see every year. I still see the same amount of does each year, it is the buck numbers that have gone way up. They still run the does away from the feeders. I was hoping that buck numbers would correct themselves back down if I kept my doe numbers that same. Most of the time I still believe in the old statement....."if you are seeing does, you still have to many".

Doe meat is better, no contest. In many areas of the hill country, the buck-to-doe ratio is off and there are usually an overabundance of does, which leads to more competition for resources. At our lease, we're only allowed to take one buck and two does (it's not a well-managed property), and it's the two does that I usually spend the most time hunting because I want big, mature does that carry plenty of meat on them. Every year I've been on the lease I've shot my allocation of does and I usually take 1-2 more at my friend's ranch (MLD). We eat venison at my house almost every week and sometimes multiple times a week, so we will definitely eat 3+ deer worth of meat throughout the year and usually limp into the season with a pretty depleted freezer. I do share quite a bit of venison with my neighbors and friends.

Last buck I shot was 3 yrs ago and was a nice 10 pt with a limp-if he wasn’t limping I would have let him walk. Otherwise I knock my limit of does down every year...and run out of steaks about time archery season starts up ;0)

I haven't killed a buck since 2013, try my best to shoot two Doe's each year.

We are over run with Doe's on our place in Erath County, we have a fairly large place, (2250 acres - Currently 3 hunters, supposed to be 4) essentially we can only kill 6 Doe's this year between the 3 of us, and our landowner is pretty strict about guest, so we're in a pickle to say the least.

Two Saturdays ago my son and i saw 19 Doe's between the two of us, 10 at his stand, and 9 at mine, this was at the same time!