Question about bullets and high shoulder shots

I shot a doe this morning using the high shoulder shot. I’m shooting a .308 with custom reloads using nosler ballistic tips. I shot her at 200 yards and dropped her. I know the high shoulder is not a shot in the vitals and doesn’t always lead to drt shots. She started to get up and I put another one into her, but made a poor shot (adrenaline maybe, never had to take a follow up shot, so I was a little rattled) and hit her in the backstrap/spine area, and she drug herself into the brush, couldn’t get a 3rd shot because she was behind some briars. But I could see her occasionally working her way to the brush. Waited a few minutes, and figured she had to be dead by now, found her trying to get through a cross fence, but couldn’t make it. 3rd round in the neck ended her.

Couple questions, is a bullet that is made to expand rapidly like a ballistic tip not a good choice for high shoulder? Some fragments made it through the shoulder and came through the front of the ribcage, and her shoulder is absolutely broken, flopping all over the place. Would a soft point be better for this shot? And second how often do you guys who shoot high shoulder see a deer get up and go 50+ yards? Especially with a 2nd round in them? Even though it was a poor shot, I’d have bet money a shot to the spine would have been a 100% instant kill.

Anyways, give me your thoughts? When I was younger I always shot soft point (coreloct, Winchester silver box, etc) but I’ve shot several deer now in the vitals with ballistic tips and they’ve never gone more than 20 yards or so, but my stand on our family place is about 200 yards from a boundary fence, and this doe was about 40 yards from it at the time so I switched it up to hopefully anchor her so she woudnt have a chance to make it to the fence.

At that distance your ballistic tip should expand fine. The short shots(under 100yards) is when I'd be worried.

If that’s the case, maybe it was just a fluke. And she was just a tough old doe.

This is just me here, I love the high shoulder shot

But I swore off anything ballistic tipped earlier this year.

I have had several not pass on animals (1 hog and 1 buck)

I shot a deer a few weeks ago w cheap Core Lokts.

Complete pass through! Fell maybe 10 yards away pouring blood

I'm done w ballistic tips...

What weight BT are you using?

I would reconsider/recheck your shot placement. If you did the high shoulder shot correctly your first shot would have hit the spine and front reaches of the back straps.

That shot depends more on penetration, and less on expansion. So IMO, that bullet is not a good choice for that shot.

I would use a tougher bullet shooting right into the shoulder bone.

When you get penetration, the results are spectacular. When you don’t, the results are what you got.

I'm interested to see what others say here. I posted a thread recently about high shoulder shots. My best spot is near a fence line so I was planning on shooting high shoulder. However, I'm shooting a 117 gr Hornady Superformance ballistic tip (25-06). While I have seen great results with this round in the past, it was always on behind the shoulder shots. Your post is making me re consider if high shoulder is really my best option with what I'm shooting.

All these BT failures... I'll stick with my Core lokts and Federal Power shoks!!

What weight bullet? How high in the shoulder?

Don’t recall bullet weight. It dads rifle. I didn’t have a chance to get my rifle sighted in before season and have been using his. As far as how high, basically center of the neck but obviously over the shoulder. If that makes sense.

Did he sight his in this season?

Yes. Bullet went right where I was aiming. After looking at some pictures of high shoulder shot placement, I think I was a couple inches lower than I should have been. Broke her leg and not a whole lot else.

If you went far enough under the spine not to disrupt it, usually you hit lungs in some fashion. Sounds like you hit spine. Just didn’t emancipate it completely

I've killed several WTails who were really close to a boundary but still legal for me, by thinking of the deer in 3 Dimension and able to visualize the off side shoulder as well as the onside shoulder for an anchoring shot.

Shot one thru a trimmed football sized hole in a thick branched cedar where the deer were easing down a jeep trail staying "hidden" behind the cedars about 85/90 yards away...and broke both shoulders with a tougher than normal 270 130gr Grand Slam I'd brought looking for some mature Red Deer that had escaped from an adjacent ranch the Rangers had told us about and warned us to "use enough bullet" for an anchoring shot...the deer "bulldozed" her way down hill on her chin off the jeep trail with both shoulders destroyed and piled up about 10 yards away at the jeep trails high spoil bank shoulder, with the boundary fence about 10 yards away.

Another one was at the edge of a Lottery Hunt corned area cut out of waist high weeds and was 10-15 yards from escaping into a thicket about 125/130 yards away...hit her with a 6.5 Swede's 120gr Sierra ProHunter at 28/2900fps with a clean entry in the mid crease but I was aiming for the offside's shoulder/leg socket and busted the socket & penetrating 'bout half way thru the ball of the joint, taking out all the hvac as well for the quickest DRT I've ever had, as she was dead mid stride and folded back on her self. No meat loss on that one either.

Just Sayin ...think of the target animal in 3D and realize the bullet's potential path is not at a flat 90* angle from a hit, but follows the angle from which you are shooting at.
Ron

A rapid expanding bullet is not a good choice for a high shoulder shot, which will equal the results you got.

You missed the spine. For that shot to be 100% effective, you need to sever the spine. Over or under can cause temporary paralysis, but leave the deer alive to run off like yours did. Study the anatomy and learn how far the spine runs underneath the back.

Yep. Youre right. After looking at some deer skeleton and anatomy pictures, I was probably 3-4” low. At the end of the day, I recovered her, and I learned something. Just hate that I had to learn it at her expense.

Experience is the best teacher. That’s how I learned about this.

If shooting a doe for meat, I am going behind shoulder always. Most doe drop right there anyway. Bucks run about 30 to 50 yards. You hunting for deer management numbers or meat? For whatever reason all doe I shoot behind shoulder fall so don't worry about them running. 165 grain on small body does that.

Sneaky is right you hit low for a high shoulder shot if you hit leg bone and not shoulder blade.

I have used the high shoulder shot many times and quite a few with 140gr Ballistic tips from a 7mm-08 and never had one take a step, DRT for bucks and does. If for anchoring them on the spot that is my choice of shots.

Study the deers anatomy the next time you field dress one, use a ruler or tape to see where the spine/backbone really is along with the other organs location

I've shot several deer with corelockts and not got a pass thru. Rarely do I get a pass thru from hornady interlocks either

I haven't gotten many pass thrus with accubonds either in my .257 wby

Of you absolutely have to have a pass thru, use a partition or a copper bullet


Ballistic tips are no more fragile than any other soft point on the market. Those issues they had blowing up were way back in the 90's.

Today all they are is a standard soft point with a plastic tip instead of a lead tip

Shooting 2 animals isn't a testament one way or the other on a bullets performance

Not a fan of high shoulder shots. One to the vitals or a spine shot depending on position is my choice.

So you don't like the high shoulder but you'll take a spine shot?


Elaborate on the location of this spine shot

Usually spine shots are UH-0's that people go back to camp bragging about how "he dropped in his tracks". They will never admit it was an accident.

It’s apparent that you aren’t quite familiar with the high shoulder shot. A lot of people aren’t, which comes to light in these threads. The name is misleading. The high shoulder shot IS a spine shot. It is 100% lights out when executed properly.

Yup

140gr NB Tip behind the shoulder never fails, if they run its not far.

I guess I’m just old school. I’ve never heard anyone call a spine shot a high shoulder shot, but then I’ve only been hunting deer 54 years.

I’ve put em down right above the mid section with spine shots before. But then I’ve put them down with head shots before also. I look for a shot that will drop the animal quickly. The last deer I killed, 3 weeks ago, took out both lungs. The deer ran 20 yards.

Me neither, and that’s not what I said. I said a high shoulder shot is a spine shot, not the other way around.

A spine shot cannot be misinterpreted. It sounds to me like you want to make the shot sound better by calling it an upper shoulder shot. I think we would both agree that you can shoot a deer in the upper shoulder and not hit the spine. On the other hand, a spine shot is a spine shot, is a spine shot. No room for misinterpretation.

Your trying to break bone so you need penetration. I'm not a fan of ballistic tips but i know they will rip holes in soft tissue like lungs..etc. I used to guide and seen many people make perfect shots redirect into gut cavity and make a mess and even sometimes a messy retrieval like you dealt with.

I say take out the lungs and trail em. You'll find a cleaner kill when you get there. Keep your shot low if possible. More blood on the ground and less meat damage

Yes, I would agree. My point is that a high shoulder shot is a spine shot, but a spine shot isn’t always through the shoulder. Like I said, the name is misleading, but I didn’t name it. That’s just what it’s always been called.

Son Shot a deer this weekend. 65 yards 120 grain SST from A 7mm-08

Lung shot no pass thru

Died within 50 yards

Aaron just shoot it in the neck with that bullet. Less meat loss and it’ll die where it stands.

I'm confused; what person(who is a good shot) shoots a deer where there is a chance it will walk off. Place the bullet where every hunting book says to shoot it, with a normal gun and bullet, and the deer will fall in its tracks. I've shot deer with many different bullets, and cartridges, doesn't matter.

With a heart/lung shot the odds are much greater it will run than drop

I don’t even know where to start....

Some folks just need more range time!

I quit shooting BTs along time ago because of just what you went thru..........

Nope. Hit exactly where I was aiming. I was just aiming too low.

Hit the heart or the lungs and there is 99.9999% chance they will die.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that. It’s a run vs. drop on the spot argument.

No doubt they will die. The question is, will they die where you can find them?

I never use anything other than a shoulder shot and a soft point bullet.

Shot a bunch of deer and seen a bunch of deer get shot. Some go down quick and bleed a ton others quick and no blood some run a long ways bleeding, others a long way and no blood

By and large, a double lung shot with a centerfire rifle of appropriate caliber will result in a dead deer that won't run far.



Caribou,

Had a hunter shoot a deer on the same spot you described. 140 yards 100 grain bullet from a 6mm ackley improved

Deer hit the ground then stumbled off. I told him that deer is gonna be on the other side of the brush piled up. Found a bit of blood and bone at the shot.

Trailed him a mile with dogs and never found it.


I've seen some shots that were sho'nuff kill shots produce no game. Seen several other real marginal shots drop them.


Like anything else, no matter how good you are, it's never a bad thing to have luck on your side

I have a dog that will find a poorly shot deer. We have found a lot of deer for hunters who shot the deer "right behind the shoulder". None of them have been hit where the shooter thought. A deer running a very long way and leaving very little blood from what I have seen, is the result of poor shot placement. Often times it is compounded because the hunter thinks he made a good shot and pushes the deer.

I call it "high shoulder" on the deer I shoot. I do it with a 165 gr., .308, 2840 mv, Hornady SST bullet. I hit them below the spine in the area where there is a high concentration of arteries, one of which is the lower carotid. This is about a 4-5" space for this bullet to damage 2-3 major arteries, the kinetic energy causing enough hydrostatic shock to the brain and heart at the same time that they die instantly. With or without an exit, blood loss is huge. Growing up, I was taught the typical shoulder shot. I looked for a lot of deer. 30 years ago, by accident I hit one as described above, "high". DRT. Since then, I do it on purpose.