Texas Hunting Forum

breeder buck

Posted By: colt45-90

breeder buck - 12/27/16 11:26 PM

would you shoot? if one showed up on your place, say two or three ranches away from high fence
Posted By: b weezy

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 01:35 AM

Yup
Posted By: Deerhunter61

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 04:45 AM

In a heart beat!
Posted By: wtr

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:30 AM

rifle
Posted By: Bee'z

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:51 AM

Never killed anything with horns so yes I would rifle
Posted By: don k

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 12:50 PM

I would not. But I would get a hunter to do it and pocket the money.
Posted By: Simple Searcher

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 12:59 PM

I don't care if the HF is next door. It is fair game.
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:35 PM

Irion county, lady shot a 29 point with estimated score of 290, the deer traveled on to 1 or two other ranches before being shot, because deer belong to the stare it is legal to shoot. "LONE STAR OUTDOOR NEWS"
Posted By: Stompy

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:52 PM

Depends on the age, if it's a young buck, probably not. It also depends on the size of the antlers, if it's a monster with 225"+ of bone, yea I would, regardless of age. Would be nice to let him breed but all the Does are probably already bred this year.

If he's been babied all his life he may not survive anyway, and his antlers may regress if he does survive.

Heck I don't know what I'd do, I'd just have to make a call if I saw him.
Posted By: Booner1

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:53 PM

In a instant, ear tag and all.
Posted By: TooLow

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:54 PM

Sure would!
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: don k
I would not. But I would get a hunter to do it and pocket the money.
up
Posted By: HCHunter28

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 06:02 PM

I would get out of my blind and say go home buck. I like small deer on my place with inferior genetics. I think everyone would shoot him because his rack will probably be a lot smaller the next year because he's not being pen fed with ideal nutrition. He could not even make it to next year. He might be a 180 class 2 yr old and wouldn't be doing any breeding anyways.
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
In a heart beat!

X 1000!
Posted By: TX Hitman

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 06:37 PM

My buddy had a elk show up on his camera in dickens county. Sat in the blind the whole next week. Never saw it again. Heard someone called the warden and they returned it to the high fence ranch. Warden said it was fair game but the owners would appreciate having it back.

Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 06:48 PM

I really dislike the gnarly white horns on most breeder bucks. If the deer looked normal, I might shoot it. If I knew the owners and thought they could get it back, I'd probably call them.
Posted By: txbobcat

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: colt45
Irion county, lady shot a 29 point with estimated score of 290, the deer traveled on to 1 or two other ranches before being shot, because deer belong to the stare it is legal to shoot. "LONE STAR OUTDOOR NEWS"


I thought it was a guy and scored 251" ? Just down the road from me. Got out of a breeder pen.
Posted By: CRAnderson52

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 08:26 PM

Absolutely. Not my fault their fences suck. Our Warden in Coleman flat put told us were fools if we don't shoot one of the black bucks that been seen roaming around our area this year.
Posted By: Red Cloud

Re: breeder buck - 12/28/16 11:09 PM

Yep, the THF members above have covered it well. My place/hunt my buck.
Posted By: Hogflyer

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 01:05 AM

Propose the same question, with an Albino buck! see what happens to those answers. Of hunting over 40+ years never saw
a live albino deer, except once flying over norther Mason county back in early 80's.... Small buck was near a river bottom there,
with bunch of does.....


In the heat of the moment, I'd say i would probably pull the trigger also!...
Posted By: Z-man65

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 01:49 AM

Did last week .
Posted By: Auctioneer1

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 05:18 AM

If I knew who's ranch it came off of "Next Door" then no I would not shoot it. I would call him to see if he would like to dart it or make the decision on what happens to the deer. First I know what they cost and would appreciate the same, second if I made the call maybe it would open up hunting opinions for me in the future you never know. With that being said after I did all that and the owner turned out to be an A-Hole well next time would be a different story.
Posted By: GPS

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 05:49 AM

We have a HF on one side of our lease and this year 2 doe with ear tags got out and we had them on a few game cameras. As a group we all agreed not to shoot either doe, we wanted their genes in our herd. If we had selected a different plan, then yes, drop them!
Posted By: Erathkid

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 05:54 AM

Is this a thread about being "moral" or something? Nothing immoral about shooting a legal animal. Is this supposed to be a trick question? Unless your neighbor owns a petting zoo, why is this even being asked?
Posted By: poisonivie

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 05:26 PM

I always thought a deer with ear tags was off limits unless it was YOUR deer. Was I wrong?
Posted By: Erich

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 06:34 PM

any deer on your property that you have a license/tag/open season for is fair game. Cows are different, don't shoot cows. They'll piss you off a plenty but live stock is property. you cannot damage someone else's property, and the owner is responsible for any damage they cause you. native and exotic game are property of the state. only your hunting regulations apply.

to my knowledge even if the owner of the deer knew that it was on your property and wanted to try to retrieve it you are under no obligation to allow him to do so. wouldn't be very neighborly, but its not legally enforceable.
Posted By: Erich

Re: breeder buck - 12/29/16 06:39 PM

we used to hunt a place in the hill country where a neighboring owner had part of a fence go down and lost several aoudad. He knew he had lost them and we had seen them. He contacted the land lady and requested permission to try and retrieve them. She allowed him access to try and trap them for a couple weeks, he was not very successful. She told him his time was up and he had to go. He had no choice but to abide.

aoudad are not native, but ear tagged whitetail would be the same situation. allow them access if you like for as long as you're willing to put up with it. otherwise fire away within your legal means.
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/30/16 03:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Erathkid
Is this a thread about being "moral" or something? Nothing immoral about shooting a legal animal. Is this supposed to be a trick question? Unless your neighbor owns a petting zoo, why is this even being asked?
why does the ? bother you
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/30/16 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: poisonivie
I always thought a deer with ear tags was off limits unless it was YOUR deer. Was I wrong?
deer belong to the state of Texas, shoot away
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/30/16 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Erich
any deer on your property that you have a license/tag/open season for is fair game. Cows are different, don't shoot cows. They'll piss you off a plenty but live stock is property. you cannot damage someone else's property, and the owner is responsible for any damage they cause you. native and exotic game are property of the state. only your hunting regulations apply.

to my knowledge even if the owner of the deer knew that it was on your property and wanted to try to retrieve it you are under no obligation to allow him to do so. wouldn't be very neighborly, but its not legally enforceable.
same with exotics, if they are tagged, its a no no to shoot
Posted By: postoak

Re: breeder buck - 12/30/16 04:59 PM

Well I thought I understood until that last post. So you can shoot a tagged whitetail but not a tagged exotic?
Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN

Re: breeder buck - 12/30/16 05:09 PM

What tag? you think that hole in his ear is where a tag used to be? Nahh, I bet the neighbor kid shot at him with a .22 & clipped his ear.
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: postoak
Well I thought I understood until that last post. So you can shoot a tagged whitetail but not a tagged exotic?
that is correct, tagged exotics are same as livestock that get onto your land
Posted By: Bowman24

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 02:33 PM

I would recommend calling TPWD and getting in writing from the department that handles the breeders. Most Game Wardens have no idea of the their own organizations laws for breeders. If it comes from a breeding pen, the breeder has 14 days to retrieve the buck and put back. If it comes off a high fence ranch then it would be legal game. I'd hate to get into a lawsuit with a big rancher over it.
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Bowman24
I would recommend calling TPWD and getting in writing from the department that handles the breeders. Most Game Wardens have no idea of the their own organizations laws for breeders. If it comes from a breeding pen, the breeder has 14 days to retrieve the buck and put back. If it comes off a high fence ranch then it would be legal game. I'd hate to get into a lawsuit with a big rancher over it.
deer are owned by the state..period...
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 02:41 PM

it amaze's me how many hunters do not know hunting regulations, pertaining to their county,fishermen knowing the regs. to the particular lake they are on, ect, for instance, here in Bastrop county, Javelina are not legal to shoot, over heard a guy bragging that he has shot two.
Posted By: Bowman24

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 03:29 PM

Just talked with a State Biologist and if a deer that has come directly out of a breeder pen and that breeder has contacted the state then he has the legal right to retrieve the buck within a couple of weeks. If that tagged buck is shot within the time limit that the owner has to retrieve it then the shooter is liable for a civil law-suit but not criminal UNLESS the shooter has also been notified by either the owner or a State Law Officer.
Posted By: Mr. T.

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 04:11 PM

So, how am I supposed to know if that big buck with an ear tag that walks by my stand trailing a doe has been out of the pen for one day or one month?
Posted By: bp3

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 06:06 PM

Ever tried to heard cats happy3
Posted By: Simple Searcher

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Bowman24
Just talked with a State Biologist and if a deer that has come directly out of a breeder pen and that breeder has contacted the state then he has the legal right to retrieve the buck within a couple of weeks. If that tagged buck is shot within the time limit that the owner has to retrieve it then the shooter is liable for a civil law-suit but not criminal UNLESS the shooter has also been notified by either the owner or a State Law Officer.
,
I wonder about that, how the heck are you to know if it came directly out of a feeder pen?
I am all about giving an owner a chance to retrieve a whitetail, but where is a law that says "couple of weeks?"
I would ask your biologist for documentation on that one. And please share it,. And be clear that it is "whitetail deer."
Posted By: Bowman24

Re: breeder buck - 12/31/16 10:41 PM


here's a copy of a previous post regarding this very issue...looks like a 10 day rule with an additional 5 day extention.



KS 196 6/8
Woodsman

Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Frisco, Texas
I understand this is the code for "breeder" deer, but why would it not apply in this case, is sounds to me the deer "escaped" and after 10/15 day become "free range" deer again.

Texas Administrative Code Next Rule>>

TITLE 31
NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2
TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 65
WILDLIFE
SUBCHAPTER T
DEER BREEDER PERMITS
RULE §65.605 Holding Facility Standards and Care of Deer
________________________________________
(a) The entire perimeter fence of a facility shall be no less than seven feet in height, and shall be constructed of department-approved net mesh, chain link or welded wire that will retain breeder deer. An indoor facility is acceptable if it meets the standards described in this section and provides permanent access to an outdoor environment that is sufficient for keeping the breeder deer in captivity.

(b) Immediately upon discovering the escape of breeder deer from a facility, a permittee shall notify the department. The permittee shall have ten days from the date of such report to capture only those breeder deer that are marked in accordance with Parks and Wildlife Code, §43.3561. All recaptured breeder deer must be returned to the facility from which the breeder deer escaped. If after ten days the permittee is unable to capture escaped breeder deer that have been reported in accordance with this subsection, the department may grant an additional five-day period for capture efforts to continue, contingent upon the permittee proving to the department's satisfaction that reasonable efforts were made to effect the capture during the first ten-day period.
Posted By: Simple Searcher

Re: breeder buck - 01/01/17 01:04 AM

Thank you, interesting.
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: breeder buck - 01/01/17 05:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Bowman24

here's a copy of a previous post regarding this very issue...looks like a 10 day rule with an additional 5 day extention.



KS 196 6/8
Woodsman

Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Frisco, Texas
I understand this is the code for "breeder" deer, but why would it not apply in this case, is sounds to me the deer "escaped" and after 10/15 day become "free range" deer again.

Texas Administrative Code Next Rule>>

TITLE 31
NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2
TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 65
WILDLIFE
SUBCHAPTER T
DEER BREEDER PERMITS
RULE §65.605 Holding Facility Standards and Care of Deer
________________________________________
(a) The entire perimeter fence of a facility shall be no less than seven feet in height, and shall be constructed of department-approved net mesh, chain link or welded wire that will retain breeder deer. An indoor facility is acceptable if it meets the standards described in this section and provides permanent access to an outdoor environment that is sufficient for keeping the breeder deer in captivity.

(b) Immediately upon discovering the escape of breeder deer from a facility, a permittee shall notify the department. The permittee shall have ten days from the date of such report to capture only those breeder deer that are marked in accordance with Parks and Wildlife Code, §43.3561. All recaptured breeder deer must be returned to the facility from which the breeder deer escaped. If after ten days the permittee is unable to capture escaped breeder deer that have been reported in accordance with this subsection, the department may grant an additional five-day period for capture efforts to continue, contingent upon the permittee proving to the department's satisfaction that reasonable efforts were made to effect the capture during the first ten-day period.

Okay, so the breeder has 10-15 days to capture the deer. Where does it say I have to wait 10-15 days to shoot the deer?
It doesn't. All the 10-15 days is, is a time period in which the deer may be returned to the breeding operation. After the 10-15 days, the breeder has no claim to the deer and can not legally put him back in a breeder pen.
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 01/01/17 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: TexFlip
Originally Posted By: Bowman24

here's a copy of a previous post regarding this very issue...looks like a 10 day rule with an additional 5 day extention.



KS 196 6/8
Woodsman

Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Frisco, Texas
I understand this is the code for "breeder" deer, but why would it not apply in this case, is sounds to me the deer "escaped" and after 10/15 day become "free range" deer again.

Texas Administrative Code Next Rule>>

TITLE 31
NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2
TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 65
WILDLIFE
SUBCHAPTER T
DEER BREEDER PERMITS
RULE §65.605 Holding Facility Standards and Care of Deer
________________________________________
(a) The entire perimeter fence of a facility shall be no less than seven feet in height, and shall be constructed of department-approved net mesh, chain link or welded wire that will retain breeder deer. An indoor facility is acceptable if it meets the standards described in this section and provides permanent access to an outdoor environment that is sufficient for keeping the breeder deer in captivity.

(b) Immediately upon discovering the escape of breeder deer from a facility, a permittee shall notify the department. The permittee shall have ten days from the date of such report to capture only those breeder deer that are marked in accordance with Parks and Wildlife Code, §43.3561. All recaptured breeder deer must be returned to the facility from which the breeder deer escaped. If after ten days the permittee is unable to capture escaped breeder deer that have been reported in accordance with this subsection, the department may grant an additional five-day period for capture efforts to continue, contingent upon the permittee proving to the department's satisfaction that reasonable efforts were made to effect the capture during the first ten-day period.

Okay, so the breeder has 10-15 days to capture the deer. Where does it say I have to wait 10-15 days to shoot the deer?
It doesn't. All the 10-15 days is, is a time period in which the deer may be returned to the breeding operation. After the 10-15 days, the breeder has no claim to the deer and can not legally put him back in a breeder pen.
EXACTLY
Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: breeder buck - 01/01/17 04:36 PM

Yep without a doubt.
Posted By: Firstlight10

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 02:00 AM

I know several deer breeders and this is correct.
Posted By: Bowman24

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 02:24 AM

why risk a lawsuit or something not really right, but hey...go for it boys. Like Darrel Royal once told me, "son, you can't coach a dumb-[censored]".
Posted By: therancher

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 03:35 PM

Just shows how ignorant the laws are in the stat of Texas. You can buy deer all day long every day. But you can't own them.
Posted By: Old Rabbit

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 04:33 PM

Just curious, how do you go about the capture of the escaped deer. Do you just walk around the neighbors place calling it and hoping it comes running like a pet? Do you see up catch pens and turn loose the ones that don't have ear tags?
Not being an a$$ or stirring the pot but if this happens during the rut the deer could be anywhere.
And yes if I had the money I would have my own HF place to hunt.
Posted By: bp3

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 05:49 PM

Hard to catch in some ones freezer
Posted By: colt45-90

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 06:00 PM

IF I were next door to hf, I would give the guy reasonable amount of time to get HIS buck. say, maybe 15 minutes elmer
Posted By: Grizz

Re: breeder buck - 01/02/17 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: TexFlip
Originally Posted By: Bowman24

here's a copy of a previous post regarding this very issue...looks like a 10 day rule with an additional 5 day extention.



KS 196 6/8
Woodsman

Registered: 12/25/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Frisco, Texas
I understand this is the code for "breeder" deer, but why would it not apply in this case, is sounds to me the deer "escaped" and after 10/15 day become "free range" deer again.

Texas Administrative Code Next Rule>>

TITLE 31
NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2
TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 65
WILDLIFE
SUBCHAPTER T
DEER BREEDER PERMITS
RULE §65.605 Holding Facility Standards and Care of Deer
________________________________________
(a) The entire perimeter fence of a facility shall be no less than seven feet in height, and shall be constructed of department-approved net mesh, chain link or welded wire that will retain breeder deer. An indoor facility is acceptable if it meets the standards described in this section and provides permanent access to an outdoor environment that is sufficient for keeping the breeder deer in captivity.

(b) Immediately upon discovering the escape of breeder deer from a facility, a permittee shall notify the department. The permittee shall have ten days from the date of such report to capture only those breeder deer that are marked in accordance with Parks and Wildlife Code, §43.3561. All recaptured breeder deer must be returned to the facility from which the breeder deer escaped. If after ten days the permittee is unable to capture escaped breeder deer that have been reported in accordance with this subsection, the department may grant an additional five-day period for capture efforts to continue, contingent upon the permittee proving to the department's satisfaction that reasonable efforts were made to effect the capture during the first ten-day period.

Okay, so the breeder has 10-15 days to capture the deer. Where does it say I have to wait 10-15 days to shoot the deer?
It doesn't. All the 10-15 days is, is a time period in which the deer may be returned to the breeding operation. After the 10-15 days, the breeder has no claim to the deer and can not legally put him back in a breeder pen.


Criminally you're correct, it's all about what is not written. However, it is still consistent with what Bowman 24 posted because anyone can sue you for almost anything. Whether or not they win is another question. Like he said, there is no criminal offense if you kill the buck unless you have officially been notified, but you could still be sued.
If I knew the buck came from a known neighbor I would like to think I would notify them and give them an opportunity to get the deer back. Otherwise, all I know is I've got a monster in front of me that needs to be shot. If someone wants to sue me for something I had no reasonable way of knowing, there is nothing I can do.
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