Deer Lease problem...thoughts?

Guys,

I got on a new lease this past August and on the whole the guys are pretty decent guys except...

The guy who heads things up and his brother likes to hunt everyone else's stands and they don't maintain their own stands and feeders. I don't like this. I worked hard to get my stand up and two feeders up. I cleared a couple of shooting lanes too. I keep my feeders full and feed a lot therefore although I haven't seen the/a Muy Grande at my stand I do see quite a bit of activity. I have never hunted my stand and not seen anything...I always see deer. So they always want to hunt my stand. I had a small lock on it as a deterrent but found out they were picking the lock. So I've since bought a new lock that they can't pick. On top of this they broke a couple of my steps on the ladder going up to my stand...didn't fix them nor did they say anything about it. They also like to "check out" everyone's stand during the season. Frankly this really angers me. There's too much traffic in the area already without them checking out my stand area.

Last night another guy texted me and told me that the brother had killed the biggest buck any of us had on camera last night at his stand. He told me that the brother didn't ask him about hunting his stand but the brother knew he would be out of town and so hunted the stand and shot the big buck. We've been sending text updates on a lot of our hunts but this guy didn't send any of us a text or pic of the buck that he killed...It probably will be between 150-160. Really nice hill country buck.

Rant over...

Do you guys have written rules regarding who can hunt stands? permission required to hunt others stands? If so, that is BS, especially from the guy that is supposed to be the head of/manager of the lease. Not knowing the dynamics of the group, it is hard to make any suggestions other than find another place if you can't live with it. I know I couldn't. If you have a majority in your group that feel the same way, you could possibly force a little democracy on the brothers. Again, hard to make suggestions without knowing what the rules are and what the dynamics of the group are.

Put a lock on your stands.

Did you even read the OP?

I have never agreed with stand swapping unless I give my permission first. Too many hunters do not maintain their own areas as far as corn and up keep.

Get you a pet rattlesnake and leave in your stand, problem solved.

That would piss me off as well.

We all own our stands collectively. Never have any problems. However we've all known each other 35 plus years. I like to hunt different areas. After all it's just a deer.

If you have a problem with other people hunting your stand just tell them not to. It seems pretty simple to me.

By far the biggest deer lease issue that comes up. It would tick me off too based on those facts.

Rule on our lease is that members have a #1 Stand which they must maintain. If they are @ lease that can be their 1st choice. If a member is not hunting out of their #1 then it is open for any other member to hunt.

have you even talked to the fella about this?

Hit them both right between the eyes and find you a new lease, that type of person is not changing. Your just being used to inhance there opportunities!

On my lease you only hunt your own stand unless another hunter gives you permission to hunt their spot. The reason that it became a rule is some hunters don't put as much effort into filling feeders and upkeep of their area but expected to hunt others spots when they weren't successful.

Yep, start looking for a new lease. Take your stuff off early, if you have time, before you tell them you're not coming back.

The head guy sounds like an "idea" guy that lets everyone else actually do everything. Am I right? I'm related to one.

We run a dozen feeders and blinds, everyone can hunt any one, and we all share in the work and cost. It ain't perfect, as I've stated in my own posts, but we do communicate with each other pretty well.

I don't think id be leavin a lease just so quick if you got a good spot and a 160 just killed off of it... maybe just take it up with the fella or fellas and have the other lease members do the same..

IF the lease boss is doing this then in my experience it will not get better but will get worse. The guy in charge has to set the example and if he fudges on the rules it is a major problem. I have seen stands done two ways - each hunter has "their" stand and area and they maintain it and only they can hunt it. This approach can lead to issues like having to lock your stand, etc.

The other is community, first come. first serve. This is how we do it on our lease and it has worked well for many years. We have a big map at camp with each stand marked on it and each hunter has their own marker with their name on it. Any hunter may hunt any stand - once their marker is on a stand then they can leave it there till they move it or leave the lease. Also no hunter may hunt within 800 yards of another hunter. The only downside to this is the group has to work together to make sure feeders are working, etc. But it sure takes alot of the competition out of play.

End of the day if I were in your shoes I would be hesitant to remain on this lease if your leader is acting this way.

We don't have "community stands" for the above reason. I don't care if it's the head lease guy. I would tell him to stuff it and not just on turkey day. That's BS imo

My lease has only a few hunters, some that never seem to show at all. Stand areas are picked based on seniority at the lease. If you have an area one year, then you have first choice of that area the next year. Hunting at someone else's stand is strictly by permission and seems to be pretty well followed. So far, so good. If I were the OP, I'd discuss with the brothers, assuming the lease rules are for individual stands. The other question would be ownership... if the brother are (or are related to) the property owner then the OP may be out of luck.

I'm happy because the area I have has been the most productive of anywhere on the lease for the last three years. No one wanted it when I joined the lease because it "was too close to the road." I took it because I was on crutches at the time and I could walk about 50 yards to get to my stand and the areas I wanted to hunt were down two intersecting pipeline rights of way. Both could be accessed by 4x4 to place feeders & fill. Traffic back and forth down the county road by pipeline or timber workers is routine, so deer aren't startled by the sound of my truck or the smell of gas/diesel. A win-win for me!

Don't like that situation. How many are on the lease? Besides the two brothers, are there other relatives involved? If the others see the situation and don't like it, then you need to discuss with the brothers. My guess would be they aren't going to change and since this is your first year, they may ask you to move on.
Keep the lock on your stand. Start checking around town and see if there is something else open close by.
I wouldn't want to hunt with folks you can't trust.

Hunt their stand/setup. Keep your mouth shut about anything you see at YOUR stand. Don't share pics. Talk up about the huge buck you keep seeing in their area.

Or..... get off the lease.

It sounds like to me, these brothers are the primary lessors from the landowner. The other guys on the lease are just there to help them pay for it. Unless you can change that, then things aren't going to be much different.

If the deer are really, really good.... how is the relationship with the landowner. Are they friends of the brothers? Have you met him? I would get to be really, really good friends with the landowner. He's going to be the only person who is going to have any leverage on these two brothers.

I would have a come to Jesus with the boys and tell them they are way off base.

Yepper

To me, the deer don't really matter. It's the behavior of the other members. It's not gonna get better. I would rather start over somewhere else where this wouldn't happen, than put up with this [censored] every year.

Unless a community stand arrangement is made where all stands are nearly equal, this is the usual outcome. Some guys don't wanna put in the work to clear brush, maintain feeders, keep feeding, manage deer properly, & have a nice stand. So the guys that do the work, get screwed. It's human nature, when dealing with arseholes.

They have country clubs that would fit nice if you just like watching deer and being a diva

Sounds like he hasn't even talked with these guys yet about any of this... even if it don't get you anywere you can move on or don't let it bother you.. get a lock they cant pick and keep on huntin

Where? I love watching deer & being a diva!

What I don't love is a bunch of a-holes taking advantage of my work & my desire to have a nice deer lease.

If you like that, good for you. He asked for opinions, I offered mine.

Once we were satisfied with the deer we shot from our stand, we were open to others on the lease hunting our stand. We just all understood that and were happy. I would not go hunt their stand if they hadn't already got what they were after

I'd confront them with the whole camp there and get to the bottom of it period. Sounds like they are financing a good time on everyone elses dime. That would make sense why he'd kill a good buck and not say anything, they know its wrong.

Care to explain?

And just so you know...I absolutely love to watch wildlife, deer in particular.

And I don't have one bit of patience for freeloaders! They can get off their butts and put in the time, money and work if they want to hunt a good stand. And stay the heck out of mine! I don't hunt theirs out of respect and I expect the same in return!

And just so you know...I found out today they were using a drill to remove my door to get in to hunt my stand...That tripped the trigger. I let them know they are not to hunt my stand again. And that meant under any circumstances!

Most problems can be resolved with direct contact and discussions. Good or bad, their reaction and the reaction from the other members will tell you whether it is time to move on or if adjustments will be made.

I'd talk to the guy before you just pack up and leave... Especially after killing that big of a buck. Luckily at our lease were all good buddies and have been hunting together for a while. Everyone has their stand and feeder (some of us have two setups) that they keep up making sure the feeder is full and the stand is in good shape. You always have first dibs to your stand if you're there no matter what. But if you pure not there then all stands are free game, as well as any deer you might see there. It works good for us because we all help each other out and constantly share game cam pics so we all know what's where. If I'm the type of guy that only hunts twice a year and constantly has big bucks at my feeder and the next guy hunts every weekend and never sees anything good at his spot why shouldn't he be able to go hunt mine and get something on the ground?!

I've been on places that were "area" type leases and they flat out suck.

Plain and simple, you're on a lease with trash. No amount of talking is going to change a thing 'cept prolong your frustration.

If they are using a drill to remove your door, they know they "breaking the rules". In other words, they know they are doing something shady. Ergo, they are either total scumbags or believe they have an honest right to hunt the stand. Since they aren't confronting you about a "locked" stand, they know they are doing wrong. If you confront them, either they are going to throw you off or ignore you. So you either put up with it or leave.

If there are no written lease rules, I would contact the landowner, explain the situation, and ask to bid the lease for next year. Once you have it, you're in charge and make the rules. If it's a quality deer lease, I would outbid their [censored] and throw them off.

If they are doing this stuff, who knows whatever stuff they are doing when you aren't there. Taking multiple deer, inviting their friends out, selling hunts on the side. If they have no respect for your stand, they have no respect for you, and probably not other lease members either. Think about that.

But there is zero you can do this season.

Yep, sounds like a couple greedy bastages

If you have to put a lock on your stand, and can't trust the other members, do you enjoy being on the lease? Can you relax and be at peace in that environment? People like you described are not going to change. I suggest taking this as a learning experience, and moving on. It would be a good idea to understand the rules/expectations, before you sign a new lease.

My dad always says, "You deserve what you tolerate."

You have to decide if staying on this lease is worth putting with this behavior. If it is, tactfully talk to the boss about keeping his feeders full so you can hunt his stands if he's going to hunt yours, take the lock off your stand to prevent any damages they might do to your stuff, and enjoy your time at the lease. If it's not worth it, confront the guy and be prepared to find a new lease. My point is, his behavior isn't going to change without some sort of conversation. You just have to be prepared for the outcome.

It's always the guy running the place that breaks all the rules. I would talk to him and see where it goes and then decide.

Yep

A couple years ago, me and my four brothers joined a lease (knew one of 6 other members). We had same problem - we were permitted to hunt other stands if they weren't present. Trouble was, their stands were run down and fairly close to their camp, so deer traffic was limited. Our camp was in another pasture and blinds aways from camp. We ran many cameras and good stands and knew what we had coming in - they would hunt our blinds after we shared pictures ( they never shared pictures). It came to a head when one of them smoked in my brothers blind (against their rules) and my ex-smoking brother threw a Walloon fit. After that things went further downhill. Cut your losses - those guys are not going to change. I bought a small place of my own and couldn't be happier. Leasing with guys you don't like or trust is stressful - something you don't need while trying to relax.

A lease I was on years ago had a rule that you were not allowed to kill a buck out of another hunters blind unless he was at the lease. My brother was on a lease where the stand owner had to send a group text stating who had permission to hunt their stand.

Better off looking for another lease! These are nothing but low life thieves, and they will take advantage of anyone given the chance.
Deer hunting is supposed to be enjoyable and dealing with those kind of individuals isn't ever going to improve.

If it's a good lease get with the other lease members and go talk to the landowner and see if you guys can lease it that's unless the guy running it and the landowner are tight.

Fill your freezer and find another lease. I don't see this changing and would bet the person whose place you took had the same problem.

How did you find out they were using a drill to break in?
What was his reaction when you confronted him?

I agree with those that say obviously the fact that they did not tell you about the buck means they know on some level it wasn't right. There MUST be some set of ground rules layed down and then everyone can handle them how they want. We have permission rules and no stands are JUST OPEN just because the hunter is not present that weekend. Some don't mind their stand being hunted and some do. This protects the ones that do.
I would not be a fan of the way things are being ran on your lease. Also, as others have said the manager/operator should set the example and enforce them. Not cover them up.

THIS!! Even if you created a set of rules, the guy and his brother would break them when no one is around.

Best thing I ever did was walk away from a lease that was being run by a guy just like the one you describe. And to make matters worse, his brother was an alcoholic who used the lease to get drunk away from his old lady. And his brother felt it was his duty to allow him to do it.

Always remember....a hunter that breaks ANY rule...state laws or any other rules...they will break other rules...they cant be trusted and pass this on to the owner..if the owner doesn't change who runs the lease then leave this place before big problems develop.
Not worth putting up with this...

This is the worst thing you can do because the land owners don't want to deal with drama, and that is why they have a lease foreman. Going to the owner will get you booted off a lease faster than anything.
If you can't convince the lease foreman then it's best to look elsewhere.

In this case, if he gets booted what has he lost? It is worth the gamble just in case the 2 idiots get the boot. Many LO's, also have a sense of ethics.

I would try to make the best of it until the end of the season.

Then at the end of the season, approach the landowner and let him know what a scumbag the guy is running the lease and ask if you can take it over to make sure fights don't break out and someone gets hurt and sues the landowner in the future.