Just got screwed ...

This past February I met a farmer from Johnson county, about 15mi south of me.
after talking to him a few times the subject of hunting came up and after some discussion he offered to let me hunt his land in exchange for labor. 1.3mi of new fencing, castrated and tagged steers, mowed fields and finally patterning three different mature bucks and building four custom blinds so that we would both have great opportunities to take good deer this year.
then yesterday I get a call saying that he leased the property to some hunters from Dallas and that I'm not allowed on the property anymore.
being a purely verbal agreement I don't see anything I can do about it but would appreciate any advice you could give...

you must really like to hunt.

Yep, you're right. Title says it all very accurately.

At least you didn't spend 5 years building a herd, feeding protien, fixing fences, improving pasture, clearing fencelines, and running water lines on your own dime. I feel for you davvy.

WOW! The best advise anyone can give you is, no matter how honest people may appear, always get it in writing. It sucks that's how it is these days but as we all know, it is.

There's nothing you can do, unfortunately!!!

Alway, always, always got get it in writing if you're "paying" up front.

Verbal agreements aren't binding when it comes to real estate transactions in Texas and I don't know where a hunting lease falls, but it strikes me as use of real estate.

Really a crappy thing to do, but unfortunately it's not uncommon. When I bought my current place, it was under lawsuit because a guy did work for like 20 years for a local rancher on the place under the promise he'd be left the property in the will. Guy dies, guess who didn't get left the property? Guy lost his suit in summary judgement, as you obviously can't just claim you were supposed to receive part of an estate without any documentation, but still, it's a terrible thing to do to somebody.

I would certainly let it be known all around town that he's a POS.

Send him an invoice for the work performed and file for a theft of services. The value would be based on the going rate for the work performed or the amount that he leased the property for. Doubt you get much out of it, but you can push the issue if you want to receive monetary compensation for the work performed. Verbal agreements are considered binding in Texas, but dang hard to prove. Good luck!

As a side note

Not so sure, did you ever take any money for labor? Did you get to do any hunting? Or have any form of payment? A contractor I work with, did some work for a guy, no written agreement, guy refused to pay him. He went to the DA, he was told as long as he never accepted a dime, he could file on him. I do not know if this applies to hunting, or if it's worth even pursuing.

The whole "verbal agreement" stuff is tough.

The farmer is going to claim that the work done wasn't as significant as is being claimed and that it was a trespass fee where you got to spend time on his land during the summer, etc. He's also likely to just say, "I did the majority of all that stuff he's claiming. He helped a bit, but did a poor job, so I had to clean up his mess."

Gonna be your word versus his and unless he just comes forward and admits he screwed you (unlikely), you're going to need witnesses/documentation or it's not even worth your time.

If he's an older fellow and you can demonstrate that he's not capable of doing the work, it would help your cause.

He is an older guy who's not getting around to well so I went above and beyond the agreement to help him out. As far as a lawsuit goes its doubtful that I can win and I would rather just get a deer seeing as I have only been able to hunt one year since I moved to Texas 7 years ago.
in a couple hours I'm headed out to the area to knock on doors and pray one of his neighbors that's seen me putting in the work will take pity on me, however remote that chance may be.

Good luck to you davvy and welcome to the forum !!! Good things happen to good people eventually!!!

I'm growing to dislike people more and more every day. Used to be able to look a man in the eyes and shake his hand and his word was his band. Nowadays not so much. Get it in writing from now on.

That is tough. Since there is no written agreement, there is likely no chance of any recovery. I would still try to send him a bill for the work you performed. He will probably not pay anything, but I would try.

As I heard someone put it, nowadays "the truth is up for grabs."

Id make his life a living h***

You had a verbal contract for services and verbal contracts are valid and enforceable...this is not a real estate transaction as ownership of the real estate was not a part of the contract consideration. You made an offer for services which he accepted...you performed your portion of the contract. You are entitled to consideration/compensation. Consideration is a legal concept that describes something of value given in exchange for a performance. Put simply, the landowner is in material breach of the contract and you are entitled to damages. I think you'd be well within your rights to submit a demand letter to him as you would most likely prevail if you opted for legal recourse. At a minimum, he at least needs to pay you for your work. Not sure how eager you are to pursue this matter, but I think you'd do much better than others have stated previously.

For those that say he should have had it in writing, I am curious how much you believe that would help and what additional recourse he would have. People get screwed every day with contracts written by legal professionals, and it would still be a battle and cost money IMO.

I don't know what the right answer is but I wouldn't just take it lying down.

Best of luck to ya.

It'd be nice if it were that simple, but unfortunately, unless the LO agrees with his side of the story and it outlined what constituted consideration, that's not happening.

There's always wiggle room with contracts since resolution of dispute involves interpretation of what was meant, but it's certainly much better to have a contract than to try to go the "he said, she said" route.

No way I do all the work you did without getting something in writing regarding the lease. Sorry dude, you did indeed get screwed.

My advice...sit down and talk with the landowner. Be very detailed regarding the services performed and the value of those services. Request that he compensate you for your time and materials. If he refuses, I would definitely send the demand letter as this sends a message that you intend to be compensated. Can't tell you how many times I've seen demand letters provide that little nudge to get someone to perform. If he still refuses, the ball's in your court and you'll most likely have to sue him. This all depends on how much you're willing to pursue this matter. Personally, I don't like getting screwed and I'm sure you don't appreciate it much either. Sometimes the mere threat of litigation will help move resolve the matter. After all, if you appear determined to take this to court, he'll have to incur legal fees for defense.

but how much money are you going to end up spending trying to prove all this, written contract or not? i'm all for fighting for the "principal" of things but there is a point where it becomes fiscally irresponsible, especially when you never actually paid for anything anyway.

its a bad situation no doubt.

And when all else fails, punch him in the throat!

Agreed....it boils down to what its worth to you

... or in the nut balls...

That is downright crappy. You busted your tail helping him out and now, no hunting.

Go knock on his door and submit an invoice with a dollar amount, for all the labor you put into his place.

If he refuses.

That's when I'd get even. I'd rip the sonofabuck's fence down and leave a flaming bag of poo on his porch.

This is always a big problem. He's fighting for something worth a few thousand. Legal fees might very well be a few thousand. You can sue for the money plus legal fees, but with nothing in writing, there's a huge chance he loses and is now also out legal.

I work in a capacity where we're always suing, being sued, foreclosing, trying to enforce performance under contracts, etc.

It's never clean.

thanks alot obama

Make him pay you for the work and take your blinds/feeders off the land.

What a jerk move.

As said above oral agreements of labor or services performed are legal in Texas but can be very time consuming and expensive to collect on. It's possible if explained to him in person in a nice way about paying you for your services or following through on hunting privileges he could have a change of heart. If not then lesson learned and welcome to THF.

I agree. Just in my experience, a contract can be just as costly to collect on as a verbal agreement...you just stand a better chance of winning

For the win!!!

To file in small claims court is inexpensive, probably less than $50.00, I think you can sue up to statutory maximum of $5,000. It will be a pain in the arse for him. You have nothing to lose, everything to gain.

If you really did all that work and didn't get paid, send him an invoice. If that doesn't work, hire a lawyer to send him a demand letter. If he digs in, consider your bluff called and walk away, lesson learned.

In my neck of the woods (south Texas), we would say, "F*#k him up and give him a putaso!"

I would sit down with the landowner and discuss it with him. Tell him, if he doesn't follow thru with your agreement you will take him to court and he will have to pay for your services. See if he bites.

file a lien on the property...

I would think this would be the best coarse to take. After he refuses to pay from the invoice you should submit to him.

I think the invoice idea would be a start.. Get a couple of written bids for the fence work that you have done from reputable contractors that do similar work in the area, and base your invoice off of those bids. Use a middle ground, to prove your asking price is reasonable. The cow works would simply be those of a day worker, maybe $125/day. Include a letter that states you would be willing to trade hunting rights for the season as previously agreed for consideration. Send via certified mail, so you get a signature back that he received it.

If you still can't work out an agreement, have an attorney send him a letter. If you still don't have any luck, file in small claims court, and keep those bids around, along with copies of everything you have sent him to present if you end up going to court. I wouldn't worry about getting an attorney to go to court with you. It could end up costing too much in the long run. It is just a process that you have to go through. Tell both sides of the story, and let the judge make a decision.

I know you just want to hunt, but maybe you could get some money out of the deal to pay for a hunt.

This, and I also like the small-claims court and lien options.

I'd try and contact the group that leased the place out of Dallas. If they have any sort of integrity they will see the landowner's move for what it is. I know if I were a leaser I wouldn't want to throw in with a landowner who would behave that way. May be able to get them to pull the deal out from under the LO. May not get you a chance to hunt, but it would hold him accountable for what he has done to you. Can try and get their contact info from the LO by telling him you want to try and buy into the lease with them.

Follow these instructions and file a lawsuit on your own in Justice Court, formerly known as small claims. You can sue up to like $10,000. Go tell the judge your story and the other guy will tell his under oath.

Otherwise you will just be whining about it on here, the THF with no resolution.

Texas Justice Court

http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?...;ContentID=8755

http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?...ContentID=24859



You may not get anything if you win but you will get a judgement. If you pursue that judgement and keep it active it will create all kinds of headaches for him or his estate some day.

verbal contracts are enforceable in Texas if you can prove the necessary terms of the agreement. If you acted in accordance with the contract, there are correspondence referring to the agreement or other items indicating an agreement exists, it can be valid in Texas.

We have payed $20 per hour for day workers working cattle for several years now and covered them with workers comp.

Im sorry but that is comical. I doubt a single deer leaser would back out of their new lease they have already put money into because the landlord was a shister to someone in the past.

Has he done this before? Will he do it again? What’s to stop this lying crook from doing it to some other guy? I’d like to see the landowner’s name attached to all of this. I do not doubt the veracity of the OP’s accounts but what good does it do anyone else if this clown makes verbal deals with other men and then screws them? If it’s true it is neither libelous nor slanderous.

It is $10,000 plus court costs and is now called Texas Justice Court. Check out the links I posted.

DO IT

LOL, I agree, when all else fails, blame the Kenyan.

This whole scenario is the sh!ts! I really feel for you. If I were in your shoes, I would follow the steps that everyone else has given...Invoice, demand letter, small claims. If that doesn't work, the whole punch to the throat isn't a horrible idea! But if you do that, don't stop there...at least make it worth your time haha

I would stay away from contacting the leasers, it probably won't be fruitful since I am sure they are desperate for a place to hunt this close to the season. It could also come back to bight you in the @ss.

hahaha...this will make my dad's day!

Or find his ranch manager and by him steaks and take him fishing. (just kidding txshntr)

Invoicing is a waste of your time and resources unless part of your verbal agreement was that you would get paid for your work if the hunting did not come through.

He is probably a golfer..it works I tell ya

I would personally be leery of anyone who was willing to take the hard work of one man and cash in on it. Imagine being on a lease that you put time, energy, and effort into only to discover that you can't hunt it the next year because someone else came along and paid more. I tend not to do business with folks with a bad reputation. Going back on your word equals bad reputation in my book. He could have told his leasers that he already had 1 hunter that had rights and access.

1.3 miles of fencing is worth like 3 years on a lease. Forget that arse and move on all this legal stuff may work out but it will just get your BP up. I would be out there tearing it all down…if he says anything just tell him your just going back on what you did same as him.

Don't really mean that retaliation just always sounds good and can be quite nice to day dream about. It'll just get you in a bigger pickle. Time to move on to greener pastures.

Then you get charged with vandalism and/or theft, along with trespassing. Not exactly moving on with all this legal stuff if you do that

Nice follow up

Retaliation without getting caught always sounds good.

That's what I was thinking as well. I think the "proof" would be the visible work done?
May give a call to the Texas labor board and see if there is any avenue there you can pursue. Lesson learned.

Honestly I am utterly amazed at the support y'all have given me on this!
I mostly just wanted to vent and even as a new guy ya'll treat me like a family member and some of the advice I've gotten is spot on. Thank you all.


PS. Some of you just escaped from the loony bin didn't you...

Some are more than likely posting from one...or should be.

Grab a chair and hang around bud...you should fit right in

Haha I'm still upset about a few issues like that myself with a land lord from a while ago. I am still day dreaming about his house burning to the ground.

We can change that.

Remember there are three sides to all these types of stories.

A. Your side
B. Their side
C. What really happened

This story would make even more sense if you said he was related to you!

It's usually a family member screwing over another family member so consider yourself lucky that you're not related and move on!

to THF, and unfortunately the real world of dealing with some landowners.

Send him a bill based on the going rate for any work you performed on the property. Take pictures of anything that indicates work was done, like new fencing. If you have invoices for materials that you purchased make copies. Bill him for the work and materials. Give him a due date to pay on the invoice. If he doesn't pay you, go to the county clerks office, file an affidavit of nonpayment (you'll need a legal description). Get the legal description from the county appraisal district's office. This will create a mechanics lien. At some point he or his heirs will want it removed, once it becomes an issue for them. As stated, if you're inclined go the small claims court route. Either way you'll need to prove up the work was done and you were not compensated.

Some days you are the windshield and some days you are the bug....$hit happens. Hate to hear that, but I got a buddy that always seems to get into that same predicament.

FYI, in the future, tell the guy you will work for XX per hour paid by check each week...and that you will not cash the checks if he will let you hunt the property...then you got his A$$ in a sling if he tries to pull that business. Hope this info helps.

I'd knock on hos door first. Or even better find his pickup parked at the Dairy Queen or local coffee shop. Wherever the old timers gather in the morning. Stand tall and tell him what he owes. Give him a chance to walk outsid with you. If he declines explain your side in front of God and everybody else.

If that doesn't generate payment warn that you will be going the legal route as described previously.

Check? Nope, cash only. I'll follow you to the bank.

File a M&M lien (material and mechanics)...it is a priority lien superior to a purchase money interest (1st lien) and verbal contracts can be filed on (you must be able to prove a contract existed) as I recall.

fog horn on opening day?

You might also talk to the hunters and tell them what happened to you so as not to trust the guy. Who knows, it probably won't help your cause but may save them some grief. Karma has a way about these things!

If you have stands and feeders in place, go pick them up Saturday morning around 6am.

If the hunters now on the property ask you - tell them very nicely what happened. Tell them you'll be back next weekend to get the rest of your stuff.

If there's complaints, then maybe you can work something out with all properties to share the lease - after all, you're already set-up - and you've already "paid" for the lease. If nothing else, the new lessee's will know what kind of landowner they're dealing with.

If you don't have any feeders, stands, etc. Then just lick your wounds and get on with your life. Not worth the aggravation.

The reason I offer this approach is this. There is little chance you will sway the LO, you have no leverage. The LO, which I assume you've already talked to, could have easily told the new lessee's that the property would be shared - you already had one spot. Instead, he opted for the money. Therefore the money is the only leverage, and those new guys have the leverage. If THEY complain to the LO, he will listen because obviously the money is the important factor. By inserting yourself into their use, you get both them and the LO wanting a resolution.

But if you have no reason to return to the property, then you are - as you said - screwed.

Move on. Not worth the aggravation and cost.

This^^^^^^^^^^^

I have to say, shaming him in front of his 'homies' might just be the ticket.

Sorry to hear that that guy did that to you. Hope you can gain some compensation out of the old farmer. One way or the other you need to make sure you're the last person he does this to.

Can't get blood out of a turnip but you can kick turnips a**.

Maybe you should bill him for services rendered.

Just like a lot of folks think all old folks are "sweet", some think all farmers are "salt of the earth/your word is your bond" kind of men. Like all human walks of life, there's some real SOBs. Not saying you were naïve at all, you just got conned by a deceitful old scum bucket.

Best wishes on eventually finding a good solid place to hunt. This guy will get his in the end.

I've heard and experienced this exact same problem too many times and it's a big part of why I don't lease anymore. These days with the obama economy people are willing to do anything for a dollar and it's not the first time some city slickers have come along and probably offered some stupid amount of money and ended up screwing someone out of their place to hunt. Fortunately I don't have to lease and still get to hunt at least three places all in different counties but all within ten minutes of me at least for now one of those places is owned by the city people in the family and since all the old timers in the family have all passed away they are all going against their parents wishes and trying to sell (ungrateful morons) fortunately the listed very high and with a stupid realtor so it shouldn't ever sell. I do feel bad for you losing your place and it sucks having more city people in the woods screwing everything up for the real hunters.

i'd definitely go get all my stuff. now, if he bought all the stuff and you did the labor, you may be outta luck. But, if that's the case, id definitely bill him for the hours you have in it. I'm sure you have pics of the work done and stuff built. its sad that a mans word is not good anymore.

X2

I don't like the man anymore than anybody else but that excuse is BS in Texas right now and those cattle the OP talked about working with are bringing more money than they ever have.

The landowner is a POS and the OP needs to pursue compensation if for nothing other than teaching the old man a lesson he apparently never learned.

Sell tickets to the rodeo that will occur when you go back out there to yank them ear tags out and put those nuts back in them steers.
There's your monetary compensation!

You're welcome

Last comment is most reasonable. Watch your six and learn an expensive lesson. No doubt it's not his first gruen in his old life. Let it go and move forward...you'll be the better man.

Oops, John Humberts entry.

This!! ^^^

.

I have a service called Legal Shield. Costs me $20/month and covers me if I ever need legal advice or defense. I've only had it for a couple of months, but this sounds just like the kind of situation that I would call them on. They would write a letter to the farmer and threaten legal action if you weren't compensated and then if you wanted to pursue it, they'd help file all the paperwork. To me, it sounds like you have a solid case especially if you can document all the work you did. I would go back and write down what you did and the dates you did it on and the time you spent. He basically took your money and then gave the product you bought to someone else. I'm pretty sure that's illegal. Unfortunately, you might have to hire a lawyer and it may not e worth more than a few thousand bucks. Good luck.

Now that's some funny crap!!

My wife just asked me what the heck I was laughing so hard at.

Turd never had the intention to let you hunt. You were used. You have done enough work to build a case. Don't let the turd just walk away. Evil happens when good people don't take a stand

What's the old mans address?

If it were me I would have already gotten even and would have never brought it to a public forum and no one would be none the wiser.